Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    It`s like having a nice car that has needed many repairs. You have replace the transmition, the starter, the tires, the muffle, shocks, and springs. What more could go wrong, you tell yourself. You want to keep the car, but now it won`t start. 

    If you sell the car, you lose all the recent money you just put into it in repairs, but if you keep the car, something always keeps needing more cash thrown at it...

    It`s hard to just sell it and start over, but that is usually the right choice.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsox. Show billsox's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE]When you have as much money tied up in useless players (Lackey, Dice-K) and underperforming ones (Beckett, Lester, Crawford, Gonzalez) as the Sox do there isn't a whole lot you can do other than sit tight and hope they get better or try and trade them away.  The problem with trading them is that A) you are selling low and B) given their huge contracts it will be tough to find a trade partner that won't require the Sox to eat a ton of salary which is probably worse than just keeping them.  Unfortunately whether we like it or not barring some team willing to take a huge salary risk like the White Sox with Rios or the Angels with Vernon Wells these guys are here to stay. Dice is gone after this year and Lackey is untradeable.  I think they should keep Lester and Gonzalez and try to move Beckett and Crawford without eating a ton of salary.  That being said I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to do so and I can't really blame Ben C for it.  It's an impossible situation.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Maybe a new pitching coach and a manager that knows how to handle people would solve a lot of issues. When you deal with so many primadonnas, you have to realize that the team does not revolve around one person and there are 9 men playing at one time. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    great...we go after the guy that might not be able to handle the pressure cooker
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    Idiot, if you haven't given up, you're giving a really good counterfit of it ....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    The OP is way off base. My advice to the FO is to stay the course and field the best team you can for the rest of the season.  Right now they clearly miss Ortiz, so his return will help.

    As for Beckett and Lester, they are both healthy and capable of pitching much better than they have.  That's a job for the pitching coach, asst pitching coach, the manager, and the pitchers themselves.  The Sox should not try to dump them while paying their salaries, etc.  Meanwhile, Doubront, Cook, and Buchholz should continue to start with Morales in reserve. 

    CC isn't hitting so well, so maybe he needs to go back on the DL and get the elbow surgery, but the Sox can wait awhile longer before making that move. 

    Ross and Aviles have tailed off a little, but I think Bobby V should continue to play them. Ditto the Salty/Shoppach tandem (basically Salty against righty starters).   Ciriaco also seems to be fading, but I prefer him over Punto. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE]MLB Trade Rumors: Zack Greinke made his first start in ten days last night in what might turn out to be his final start in a Brewers uniform. He allowed one run on three hits over seven innings against the Phillies, striking out five.The Red Sox had a scout watching Greinke last night, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    I thought that ZG had no desire to play in Boston ...  I don't know were I heard that but it might have been something he said when he was still in KC
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE]Sean McAdam/ComcastSportsNet: ...the Red Sox, according to multiple industry sources, are still uncertain as how aggressive they're going to be. The Sox, say those sources, are waiting to see where they stand in the playoff race early next week before determining whether to buy or sell....The Sox, said a baseball executive, "have lots of different balls in the air at once.'' ... The five most sought-after Red Sox prospects, a league source said, are pitcher Matt Barnes; shortstop Jose Iglesias; outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr.; infielder Xander Bogaerts, and catcher Ryan Lavarnway. However, to date the Red Sox have not internally discussed making any of those five available in deals, which makes the club's chances of landing a pitcher the caliber of Johnson or Greinke slim.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]
    I would not trade any of them. Why are we always supposed to be the patsies? Other teams get their man by giving up a couple of second tier prospects , but we are supposed to give up our best.  Don't do it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    the Red Sox, according to multiple industry sources, are still uncertain as how aggressive they're going to be. The Sox, say those sources, are waiting to see where they stand in the playoff race early next week before determining whether to buy or sell....The Sox, said a baseball executive, "have lots of different balls in the air at once.'' ...
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Sox are 56 -70 since end of Aug.

    As a betting man I'd go with selling because there are 6 teams to jump.  Of course, it could happen if big three pitch well.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE]In this poker game, at what point do you fold?
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    I would go all in and see if you can bluff everyone else out.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE]Trading Beckett and Salty before the deadline would be an excellent start.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    I agree with trading Beckett.  Next season we will have Lackey back on this team.  The Red Sox can't have too many underperforming pitchers on this team
    at one time.  Although, I will remain optimistic about Lackey until he returns. 
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or look to 2013?:
    [QUOTE] Jon Heyman/CBS Sports " The rival Rangers and Dodgers have joined the Angels in the hunt for Big Game James Shields, sources say. All three teams have made offers but the Rays are waiting for someone to do better for the star righthander."
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    And they can continue to wait.  James Shields is not a star.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    I predicted TB would look to trade Shields and Upton this deadline (or winter in Jamie´s case). The comp pick game is over for TB, and they do not often lose players for nothing in return.
     
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

  20. The White Sox seem completely focused on trying to get Greinke, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter).
 
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

  • Johnson would prefer to be near his home in Oklahoma or his wife's home in Orange County, California, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reports (on Twitter).
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

  • Rival executives say the Dodgers are projecting an air of optimism about their chances of obtaining Dempster, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports (on Twitter).
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

  • Dempster and Matt Garza are seen as more likely trade options for the Dodgers than James Shields, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports (on Twitter).
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    The Orioles have inquired about Francisco Liriano, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports.
     
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    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    The Mets have released Miguel Batista, Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com reports. They had designated the 41-year-old right-hander for assignment four days ago.

    Batista posted a 4.82 ERA with 6.6 K/9 and 6.0 BB/9 in 46 2/3 innings of work this year,

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Have Fallen, And They Can't Get Up-How do you fix the mess-What advise would you give Ben?-try for playoffs or lo...

    We are getting close to the big choice at the trade deadline. I have not given up on the Sox chances for 2012, especially if we can remain relatively healthy. Papi returns. Maybe Bailey. Ellsbury hits like 2011 for the next 3 months. AGon & Pedey improve to close to career norms. Lester & Beckett improve. Buch stays healthy. We don´t really need all of these things to happen, just a few of them to make the playoffs.

    That being said, I think this may be too much wishful thinking, and a strong argument can be made to pack it in for this year, and thereby greatly improving our chances for 2013 and beyond. THIS IS NOT MY CHOICE OF PLANS, but follow it through with me...

    Trade all players who will be FAs this winter for prospects or players under team control for more than this year and get under the luxury tax limit, so we can :

    Dice-K: if he gets healthy try and unload to save a few thousand dollars.

    Podsednik: probably worth more to us than what we’d get by trading him, but unless we extend him as our 5th OFér bridge to the prospects, he´s not going to lead us anywhere. Get what we can for him.

    Cook: I´d like to extend Aaron. If I knew he´d accept arb, I´d keep him, but trading him now could get us a nice prospect, and we could re-sign him this winter anyways.

    Padilla: Same as Cook. Extend or trade.

    Shoppach: May want to seek a more meaningful role elsewhere next year, especially with Lava breathing down his neck. I don´t think he wants to be our 30% or less catcher next year. Unless we deal Lava or Salty, I´d look to see if we can get a nice prospect for Shoppach.

    Ross: I was a strong advocate for signing Ross this year. I had hoped it was for more tha 1 year, but the facts are facts. We could get a nice prospect for Cody, and trading him would be totally giving up on 2012.

    Ortiz: The big off-season decision that will affect several further moves. His Red Sox heroics are legendary. His performance has been grand. There are a lot of reasons to extend Papi, and there are areas of team weakness that need fixing as well. We probably can’t do both via signings. I can´t see trading Papi this deadline, but if we really want to have a better chance next year and beyond, we could see what we can get for him. 

    Trading some of these players to contenders for prospects could help us going forward, but some of these guys will not bring much in return. Some could be replaced without hurting our chances this year too much at all.

    Look seriously at dealing players that will be FAs after 2013 unless extended beforehand. Again, we´d get good prospects and get below the tax cap number for 2012. This will allow us to go over the limit next year and or beyond at less of an expense. 

    Free Agents after 2013:

    Ellsbury: Trading Jacoby makes a lot of sense to me, since in my opinion, he will not want to play here after 2013, even if we match or offer slightly more than the highest bidder. New rules dictate that trading him after next year begins means the team getting him can not get the comp picks if they lose him to free agency after 2013. To me, this means his value will be highest from this deadline to the day before 2013 starts. I would not just give Jacoby away. We could use the comp picks ourselves, and 1.5 years of Jacoby playing hard for us as he seeks to raise his open market free agent status would help our chances this year and next. We also have some great OF prospects on the rise. This decision may be even bigger than the Papi one.

    Saltalamacchia: To me, how this season ends for Salty will determine a lot. Stamina and durability seemed like an issue last year, so this year is a good test in that area.  His improvement defensively and in CERA-related areas since May 1st would look a lot nicer if it continued through September. With Lavarnway itching to get his shot, Salty’s durability & stamina test this August and September may determine our willingness to extend him beyond 2013. Extension or not, Salty could be a trade candidate as well now or this winter, if we decide to go with Lava. Conversely, we could extend Salty and trade Lava. The Papi decision also has a lot to do with this call, since Lava could be our DH/back-up catcher (or third string catcher) if Papi walks.

    Sweeney: With so many lefty OF’ers in the system, I see Sweeney as the odd man out. I think he could be traded this deadlinenow that CC or Ells are up. He is so bad vs LHPs, and not really that great vs RHPs that it really forces him to be at most a platoon OF’er/late inning defensive type OF’er. I think a prospect would be woirth more to us than this LH´d hitting OFér going forward. As it looks now, Ross may play vs RHPs over Sweeney anyways for the remainder of 2012, and Nava, Kalish and others may be better vs RHPs in 2013 as well (Assuming Ross walks).

    Punto: I never understood why we gave this guy 2 years, but he may end up being traded before his 2 years are up anyways, especially if Aviles is pushed to the utlity IF’er position by the rise of Ciriaco, Iggy or Bogaerts. See if we caqn get some salry relief by trading him. No good prospect return is expected here.

    Albers: He´s had a nice season, but could get us a decent prospect in return.

    R. Hill: Depending on his health and performance, he may be traded or offered arb or an extension.

    (Lester has a team option at $13M with a $250K buyout for 2014. My guess is he stays or gets traded, but this option is close to a given. I´d look to see what offers are out there, but I doubt we´d get a nice return as compared to the chances he can regain form as he heads into normal pitcher prime ages.)

    (I believe Iglesias has to stay on the ML roster after 2013, but he is still under team control. I am not sure about his arb status after 2013, but he is making $2M this year and next. Trading him could save us money and open the way for Ciriaco, Bogaerts and other SS prospects.)

    Atchison is under team control for several years, but is at the age where he probably will not be in our plans for much longer than 2013. He might net a decent prospect if healthy.

     Trading any of these guys this deadline or this winter could happen, especially if we look beyond 2013 as out best chance to win it all. 

    I wouldn´t hand these 2013 guys away. We can win in 2013. However, stockpiling prospects this deadline could help us be in a better position to trade for players in areas of great weakness on this team. The Nats got Gio Gonzalez last winter. My guess is that we could have the prospects many teams want after the stockpiling plan is done.

    We could also look to trade Beckett. We could trade Buch or Doubront if it meant we improved at starting pitcher.

    I´ve always been for looking to trade CC for salary relief.

    Let´s assume we trade Papi, Ross, Dice-K, Pods, Shoppach, Cook, Padilla, Sweeney, Punto, Albers  and Atchison.

    Our 2013 roster would look like this:

    SP1 Beckett

    SP2 Lester

    SP3 _________

    SP4 Buchholtz

    SP5 Lackey

    SP6 Doubront/Morales (Long relief)

    RP1 Bailey

    RP2 Aceves

    RP3 Bard

    RP4 Miller

    RP5 Melancon

    RP6 Mortensen

    RP7 Tazawa/Carpenter/Stewart/Others

    C Salty/ _____ (Shoppach?)

    DH Lavarnway]

    1B AGon

    2B Pedey

    3B Middlebrooks

    SS Aviles/Ciriaco

    LF Crawford

    CF Ellsbury

    RF ___________

    OF Nava/Kalish/Linares/others

    We could look to trade prospects to fill the big gaps, or sign Papi back, or sign Hamilton, or some other big name player.

     
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