Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    There must be some way that the Sox hitting coach can come up with a way to teach his hitters to lay off that slider in the dirt that almost hits the batter in their back foot.

    I realize that the slider is a great pitch as it is tough to hit, BUT??????????????

    My high school softball players can recognize the difference in spins on various pitches from 40 feet so I have to think that a major league guy could recognize the spin on a slider from 60 much better than they are right now.

    This seems especially true for the Sox left handed hitters.  Ortiz rarely swings over the top of this pitch (with the result being that he does not get as many of them) while Saltalamacchia, Drew and even Nava (sometimes) almost invite right handed pitchers to throw this pitch to them over and over and over again.

    Saltalamacchia must have well over three quarters of his many strikeouts in the last couple of years on this pitch alone.   It is almost a guarantee that pitchers will throw him one of these sliders early in the count, then go away from him with something outside and then strike him out with another slider in dirt.

    This 'strike out slider' is never a strike called by the umpire and continuing to swing at it only results in the pitcher throwing it more often.  Watching for spin recognition sooner should tell these guys that a ball with such spin and is already low should result in a checked swing.

    Once they lay off the slider in the dirt the pitchers will have to give them better balls to hit.

    There must be a computer programmer who could come up with such a program to teach hitters to recognize spin.  Could get rich if such a program could be made.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Archer1. Show Archer1's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to charliedarling's comment:

    There must be some way that the Sox hitting coach can come up with a way to teach his hitters to lay off that slider in the dirt that almost hits the batter in their back foot.

    I realize that the slider is a great pitch as it is tough to hit, BUT??????????????

    My high school softball players can recognize the difference in spins on various pitches from 40 feet so I have to think that a major league guy could recognize the spin on a slider from 60 much better than they are right now.

    This seems especially true for the Sox left handed hitters.  Ortiz rarely swings over the top of this pitch (with the result being that he does not get as many of them) while Saltalamacchia, Drew and even Nava (sometimes) almost invite right handed pitchers to throw this pitch to them over and over and over again.

    Saltalamacchia must have well over three quarters of his many strikeouts in the last couple of years on this pitch alone.   It is almost a guarantee that pitchers will throw him one of these sliders early in the count, then go away from him with something outside and then strike him out with another slider in dirt.

    This 'strike out slider' is never a strike called by the umpire and continuing to swing at it only results in the pitcher throwing it more often.  Watching for spin recognition sooner should tell these guys that a ball with such spin and is already low should result in a checked swing.

    Once they lay off the slider in the dirt the pitchers will have to give them better balls to hit.

    There must be a computer programmer who could come up with such a program to teach hitters to recognize spin.  Could get rich if such a program could be made.




    Bingo...come collect your prize! You have won a chance to try to hit a Major League Slider.

    We've got the pitcher on the mound standing at 6'5" with a strong downward plane on his pitches. He winds up and unleashes a pitch in the high 80s heading toward CharlieDarling at the plate. Charlie loads for the thigh high pitch (he has less than 3/10 of a second to decide) and he swings.

    Oh no! The pitch bottoms out and Charlie swings over it for strike three. Better luck next time.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    My high school softball players?

    No disrespect, but theres no comparison to a HS SB pitcher and an MLB pitcher. Unless the SB pitchers is throwing mid 90's overhand with a much smaller ball and a much faster spin.

    A good slider will fool the best of hitters.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    My high school softball players?

    No disrespect, but theres no comparison to a HS SB pitcher and an MLB pitcher. Unless the SB pitchers is throwing mid 90's overhand with a much smaller ball and a much faster spin.

    A good slider will fool the best of hitters.

     

    Fast pitch SB players have been known to throw harder than any MLB pitchers! the distance is shorter so there is less recognition time! I knew of a guy named Eddie Feigner who I guarentee would fool any MLB hitter in his and their primes! He once struckout Mays, McCovey, Clemente, Brooks Robinson,Maury Wills and Harmon Killebrew in a row! His fastball had been clocked at up to 104MPH or in terms you can understand or relate to 3 MPH faster than Chapmans present day fastball. As for women's softball they through in the 70+ plus MPH consistantly from 40 feet! A moot point, but I just thought I would put that little nugget out there for consumption.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    I don't care how they strike out....a strike out is a strike out and an out.

    The red sox are 

    1st in Walks

    1st in OBP

    1st in runs

    2nd in hits

    Yes they are 6th in strike outs but with those other numbers they could be 1st in strikeouts for all I care.  You could stike out 24-27 times a game....your still going to get 24-27 outs either way and if you can put up the best offensive numbers in the game then it's a non concern for me.

    Good pitchers will get hitters to chase stuff in the dirt.  When teams face a pitcher with amazing sinking stuff then they all have this problem. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I don't care how they strike out....a strike out is a strike out and an out.

    The red sox are 

    1st in Walks

    1st in OBP

    1st in runs

    2nd in hits

    Yes they are 6th in strike outs but with those other numbers they could be 1st in strikeouts for all I care.  You could stike out 24-27 times a game....your still going to get 24-27 outs either way and if you can put up the best offensive numbers in the game then it's a non concern for me.

    Good pitchers will get hitters to chase stuff in the dirt.  When teams face a pitcher with amazing sinking stuff then they all have this problem. 




    ++1

    I would rather a guy miss the slider and K than pound it in the dirt for an inning ending double play....the Sox are a very selective team, I would bet alot of their Strike outs that make them 6th in the league are looking...can't always count on getting the umps call, but strike zone discipline is a virtue.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt


    The slider was a problem but the fastball was too.  Moore got through the first inning clean with nothing but fastballs and not a slider or changeup (he also has that pitch) in sight.  The Sox had seven righties in the lineup against the lefty Moore, and among them they had one single.  Ortiz had the other.  He pitched 9 innings, not because he was striking out a lot of guys, but because he was getting them to hit the ball badly--weak grounders, popups, flies, comebackers to the mound, you name it.  Workman after a rough first inning was not too shabby himself, but the Rays hitters were able to either hit him or, almost as bad, foul off his tough pitches. 

    The problem last night was not coaching, but pitching, great pitching.  A very dominant performance that was scary in the first inning when the Sox couldn't hit a steady diet of fast balls. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    Now if the Sox were 15th in the league in OBP and couldn't score runs and striked out a lot then I'd say it would be a problem and they need to learn more patience.  But they are obviously seeing a lot of pitches and producing some offense, which is all that really matters.

    ....well that and pitching and fielding. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:


    The slider was a problem but the fastball was too.  Moore got through the first inning clean with nothing but fastballs and not a slider or changeup (he also has that pitch) in sight.  The Sox had seven righties in the lineup against the lefty Moore, and among them they had one single.  Ortiz had the other.  He pitched 9 innings, not because he was striking out a lot of guys, but because he was getting them to hit the ball badly--weak grounders, popups, flies, comebackers to the mound, you name it.  Workman after a rough first inning was not too shabby himself, but the Rays hitters were able to either hit him or, almost as bad, foul off his tough pitches. 

    The problem last night was not coaching, but pitching, great pitching.  A very dominant performance that was scary in the first inning when the Sox couldn't hit a steady diet of fast balls. 

     



    To be fair good pitching usually beats good hitting.  A LOT of teams are having a hard time with moore, he might be one of the best pitchers in the league at this point.

    It's often been said that the Sox can't hit good pitching......Well everyteam has that problem.  Still there is no comfort in those words and it's always very frustrating. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    My high school softball players?

    No disrespect, but theres no comparison to a HS SB pitcher and an MLB pitcher. Unless the SB pitchers is throwing mid 90's overhand with a much smaller ball and a much faster spin.

    A good slider will fool the best of hitters.

     

     

    Fast pitch SB players have been known to throw harder than any MLB pitchers! the distance is shorter so there is less recognition time! I knew of a guy named Eddie Feigner who I guarentee would fool any MLB hitter in his and their primes! He once struckout Mays, McCovey, Clemente, Brooks Robinson,Maury Wills and Harmon Killebrew in a row! His fastball had been clocked at up to 104MPH or in terms you can understand or relate to 3 MPH faster than Chapmans present day fastball. As for women's softball they through in the 70+ plus MPH consistantly from 40 feet! A moot point, but I just thought I would put that little nugget out there for consumption.


     




    Its still different. Its over hand, so its coming at a different angle. Mid 90's with a smaller ball, thus, the spin is faster.

    I also understand true FP SB, but he was talking about HS pitchers (15-18yrs old) who Im sure dont all throw regularly in the mid 90's.

    So my point stands that theres no comparing an MLB pitcher to HS SB player.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    Hitting or missing the ball. People rather have a Major Leaguer miss the ball, thats funny. You cant control a DP, you dont have joy stick on bat.

    A useless non-productive out. Easiest out in baseball. How many DP's in a game 1-3, Sox k'd 15 times the other night, thats acceptable. Holy smoke!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    Ball hit to Dempster, easiest DP, what happens he throws it away. Run scored because of it. Thats why making contact is very important in Baseball.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Hitting or missing the ball. People rather have a Major Leaguer miss the ball, thats funny. You cant control a DP, you dont have joy stick on bat.

    A useless non-productive out. Easiest out in baseball. How many DP's in a game 1-3, Sox k'd 15 times the other night, thats acceptable. Holy smoke!



    It's the profile.  Often high strike out hitters are actually good hitters.  They know the strike zone well so they will take a borderline pitch on 3-2.  So they strike out a little more but draw a ton of walks....as opposed to the .250 contact hitter who barely has a higher OBP and just makes weak contact because he swings at everything.  Some of the most productive hitters in the league with tons of HR's and RBI's have high strike out totals.  Alone, yes strike outs stink.....but when the sum of the approach of them overall = 1st or 2nd in EVERY offensive category then you really can't complain about the strike outs......it comes with the territory. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Red Sox hitters and the slider in the dirt

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I don't care how they strike out....a strike out is a strike out and an out.

    The red sox are 

    1st in Walks

    1st in OBP

    1st in runs

    2nd in hits

    Yes they are 6th in strike outs but with those other numbers they could be 1st in strikeouts for all I care.  You could stike out 24-27 times a game....your still going to get 24-27 outs either way and if you can put up the best offensive numbers in the game then it's a non concern for me.

    Good pitchers will get hitters to chase stuff in the dirt.  When teams face a pitcher with amazing sinking stuff then they all have this problem. 



    One other great stat they lead the league in ABs with RISP 1480 approx. and lead by nearly 200 RISPs

     
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