Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    Sign a closer and don't fret the loss of Papelbum. I liked his style of pitching and even his stupid stare,but the hick from ole Miss told everyone he wanted to see the quon. Sign one of the 15 other FA closers and move onward and upward.Joe Nathan,Heath Bell,Frankie Rodriguez,hey how about the kid the Phillies just dissed Madsen or even Lidge.Hooray for Papelbum he got his money! Say hello top Roger Paps.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    paps said all along that he was going to test the market.  he certainly didn't have to test it for long.  I don't believe that his intentions were to return to the  sox anyway.  I guess you just say thanks and move on.  maybe he just likes cheesesteak sandwiches better than KFC.  OR,,,maybe ben and the sox are throwing down the gauntlet and are going to try and stay away from stupid large contracts.  he did say he would not pay for past performances. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    At least Paps  did not stay in the American League East (Toronto). He had his ups and downs and there was often too much drama in the 9th.... But  when a guy is closing at a 90% clip.

    He had   1 blown save  to Sept. 20th and then blew 2 in the final week  including the finale in Baltimore.

    That's where he'll be remembered I'm afraid. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]At least Paps  did not stay in the American League East (Toronto). He had his ups and downs and there was often too much drama in the 9th.... But  when a guy is closing at a 90% clip. He had   1 blown save  to Sept. 20th and then blew 2 in the final week  including the finale in Baltimore. That's where he'll be remembered I'm afraid. 
    Posted by jackyldo[/QUOTE]
    Not by fair-minded people.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rgmfick. Show rgmfick's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    I thought Papelbon was back to his very good seasons as a Closer in 2011, at least right until the end in the Baltimore series. If the team had not collapsed in September, the Baltimore series would not have mattered. No question in our my mind that ownership and the front office had already made decided the team was not going to negotiate with Papelbon as it only arbitrated after earlier seasons. I agree with the consensus that a long term deal for substantial money cannot be given to a pitcher, whether bullpen pitcher or starters such as DiceK and Lackey, as the risk is just too great that something can happen to an arm, never mind a pitcher's psyche. Putting together the rest of the rotation and a new bullpen will be Ben Cherington's first test. It's exciting and is much more critical than how Ben fills the RF need or grooms the left side of the infield with a new 3B and SS, something Ben does not have to do immediately.           
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    Pap is good but not that good for 4-5 years @ $50 to 60 M. Let's be real. We haven't been to the playoffs in a couple of years--I'm not blaming Pap but why reward Pap with a record contract when he's part of the Team's total Sept. collapse.
    The management didn't make a mistake--they knew the time had come just like Theo knew the time had come with Nomar.
    I know this will come as heresy but Papi 's time has expired with the Sox. I have a feeling he may be resigned but he is not better than Vlad and many other DH's-he should not be paid because he's been a good guy. $6 to 7 M plus incentives for two years and a team buyout--not enough go to the Jay's, Ray's, O's. The candy shop is closed--some would say it should have closed last year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from crmn19. Show crmn19's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]Brutal move today can bard do it or are they going to look outside the organization for a closer Sox contingency plans
    Posted by bostonfan191646[/QUOTE]

    From a how he will do perspective, Papelbon got an awful/record lot of money.  He is a "fly ball" pitcher and the Phillies park is a bandbox as are a few of hte other NL parks in which he will appear.  From the Boston perspective, the team needs to change.  While Papelbon could have contributed here, the team needs to retool and yet compete.  They are one of the few that can.  Paps clearly took the position, as was his right, that he wanted free agent money more than he wanted to stay with any one team and the Sox were aware of that.  If they over-invested in him, they would have been compelled to stay with him, retarding the future development of a younger closer (presumably Bard).  As much as it hurts to unload a recent mainstay, this is the time the organization needs to act to redevelop the team.  Hard (harder than usual) decisions need to be made.  This was one.  Some will work some may not, you never know until after the results are in.  There will be media rguments on both sides of the aisle, but that is how that goes as it makes you read the stories. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind :  If that doesn't sell you on the importance of the closer, I don't know what will... from the file marked '' how important are closers '' Wed Nov 09 06:02am EST Blue Jays coveting big-name closers By Mark J. Miller Out of 58 save chances last season, the Toronto Blue Jays only converted 33 of them. That put them at 26th in the league in saves. If they had had even a semi-decent closer, it would have changed the American League East race significantly. As it is, the team finished 16 games behind the division-winning New York Yankees. So the Jays aren't just looking for a semi-decent closer this offseason. ESPN reports that the team is in the hunt for an excellent closer and they have "discussed signing" Jonathan Papelbon(notes), Joe Nathan(notes), or Heath Bell(notes). The Jays are also said to be looking into snagging Oakland Athletics reliever Andrew Bailey(notes) via trade, the site notes.
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    How many of those blown saves were prior to the 9th inning?  The Jays might need a closer, but they might also need a few other quality relievers. The blown save is a very misleading stat, in my opinion, because you can blow a save in the 6th inning but cannot get the save unless you pitch the 9th. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    Papelbon was determined to test the market and sign the largest contract ever for a stopper. He said so a couple of years ago, so it's no surprise that he signed with the Phillies.
    Will he be missed, of course he will, but that opens the door for Daniel Bard or someone else. The Sox will have someone to become the next stopper and if Bard can do the job, all will be fine. Remember we are just asking anyone who inherits the job to pitch one inning. So filling that roll is not that difficult, just finding the right man is the difficult job. Perhaps Joe Nathan could be that man, he would be my choice to bring in, not Heath Bell who pitches in a large park and is a fly ball pitcher.
    Yes we will miss Paps, but will soon embrace whomever gets the job, assuming of course he is anywhere as successful as Paps was.
    I think in the case of losing Papelbon was money well saved, now lets get on to finding his replacement. I believe Ben Cherrington has a good idea as to how to replace Paps, so lets let him do his job and look forward to 2012.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    It was inevitable.  Paps took the first record breaking offer...didn't even wait to see if a better offer came up or the Sox would match it.  He got what he always was after.  Let's see how he does now that he has set his record.  I predict he will NOT get 35 saves per season over the next 4 seasons.  And the Sox prepared themselves for this by signing Jenks and keeping Bard as the go to guy when the game was on the line in the 7th or 8th.

    Bottom line is that if the Sox were 70 - 1 in games they lead going into the 8th it had as much or more to do with Bard and their late inning offense than with Paps, since he blew 3 saves.  And if Paps had not blown 2 games late in the season the Sox would have made the playoffs.  Does this make his career in Boston a bad one?  Of course not.  Does this mean he wasn't the best closer on the market?  No.  But he was not returning to Boston; that was his choice and intent all along.

    So, now the Sox FO moves on.  I would recommend a Broxton or Lidge, maybe even Nathan.  I'd like to see Madson in a Sox uniform, but think his price has been set too high by Philly (very clever play).  Think Toronto will pay him.  And I think that will be even a bigger mistake than Philly's contract for Paps. 

    Why have I not suggested one of the other big closers?  Because I do not think they will want to come to Boston.  The closers job is Bard's to lose.  As someone said, if he is not going to be the closer, let him convert to starter.  If not converting, he has to be in the running for the closer's job.  Is he ready?  As ready as he ever will be, IMO.  What more could he have done last season, except not be sketchy down the stretch, along with Papelbon and a host of others.  He was overworked, along with the entire pen.  Pick up a closer caliber arm or two, with something to prove.

    No established closer wants to come to Boston to compete with Bard for his position.  Get a guy or two with something to prove and let the competition begin.  The 2012 bullpen may not be quite as lockdown as last year, but that is ok.  They managed to lose out on a playoff spot with the best late inning duo in MLB.  Apparently something else needs fixing.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    For all those that claim Ben and the rest of management made a HUGE mistake--how many of you would have also complained if they gave him the same $50- 60 M, 4 to 5 year contract that Philly gave him? Come on, come on at least some of you would have complained.

    That's okay we are all fans--we get use to things the way they were and change is difficult. Ben and management would not have allowed one  important door to close without having something in mind--the position is too important.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

       DAD & I ARE OK WITH THIS MOVE........ IT IS A NEW REGIME AT FENWAY PAAAAAK.....   KEEP THE DOOR SWINGING AND TRANSFORM THAT ROSTER !!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickerd2. Show rickerd2's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]I assumed, as of last year, that Paps was leaving, and that Bard would take over.  I'm not sure that having a good year in a contract year, voids that kind of thinking.  I really don't recall a lot of posters insisting that Paps had to be re-signed at the end of 2010.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]



    True.  I seem to remember many folks clamoring to trade paplebon after 2010.  Many didn't even think he was worth what he got in arbitration.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]Brutal move today can bard do it or are they going to look outside the organization for a closer Sox contingency plans
    Posted by bostonfan191646[/QUOTE]

    I don't think Papelbon pitched for ST Louis ??? Just my thought .
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    best non-move in a long time...hopefully Papi will get the same result....time to throw out the fat, overpaid vets and start anew
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    just because the RS spent stupid money in the past doesn't mean they should continue to. 

    it's about time the RS gave some thought to who they are signing and for how much. 

    The RS spent and spent the last two years and where did it get them? 3rd place two years running. 

    where did all the spending get the Yankees and Philly's ? ya they made the playoffs, but not for long! 

    Just look at the PHilly's , a year or two down the road they are going to be wishing they didnot give out some of the contracts they now have. 

    The way theo spent money and on who he spent it on should show how foolish it would be to continue down that road.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    just because the RS spent stupid money in the past doesn't mean they should continue to. 

    it's about time the RS gave some thought to who they are signing and for how much. 

    The RS spent and spent the last two years and where did it get them? 3rd place two years running. 

    where did all the spending get the Yankees and Philly's ? ya they made the playoffs, but not for long! 

    Just look at the PHilly's , a year or two down the road they are going to be wishing they didnot give out some of the contracts they now have. 

    The way theo spent money and on who he spent it on should show how foolish it would be to continue down that road.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]Here's some of Papelbon's numbers. Courtesy of  http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/18410/phillies-overpay-to-sign-papelbon :  Here are Papelbon's rankings over the past three seasons among all relievers with at least 150 innings: 19th in batting average 16th in on-base percentage 18th in slugging percentage 23rd in ERA
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    two things MOJO...
    1) excellent stats on paps mediocrity
    2) fine album cover choice....Stray Cat Blues/Sympathy For The Devil might be the nastiest songs ever put on vinyl...good stuff!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    I won't have to say this twice.

    Wishing Jon Papelbon the best of luck elsewhere is not easy. Thanks Jon! 

    That being said and given the current state of baseball in America? Let's all move along because there's nothing happening here. GMs are employed in order to invest their owner's money. Mistakes will be made. Good decisions too.

    I look forward to 2012 in having left 2011 (and the roster) in the rearview mirror. It WILL be different without him closing though...


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    No worries................we still have Jenks! (LOL)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    I will not miss the drama associated with Papelbon's entry into the ballgame.  And by drama, I mean uncertaintly.  Paps is no longer the dominating closer of 2007-2009, IMO. 

    On more than one occasion hitters had figured out his fastball.  He seemed to put himself into so many jams - and by jams, i mean runners on second or third with fewer than two outs.

    Then there are the 8 blown saves in 2010 - four of them against the Yankees.  Did he right his ship last season or did he just get lucky?

    Well, we will find out by observing his performance in Phillly.

    He got a great deal and he never intended to return to the Red Sox, from all observations. Fair enough.  That's the business of baseball.  

    Another closer we can get. Will the new guy be as dominating as Papelbon?  I dunno, but I am willing to find out.  

    I think I will feel better with a different guy on the mound in the 9th inning. Just my gut talking. 

     



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind : True.  I seem to remember many folks clamoring to trade paplebon after 2010.  Many didn't even think he was worth what he got in arbitration.
    Posted by rickerd2[/QUOTE]

    I was hoping to re-sign him for 3 years.

    Having said that, NO ONE in here said that we should've extended Paps after 2010.  Half the people in here wanted him gone.  Half wanted to let him walk after this year, maybe less.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    Correct move. And New England Red Sox fans should applaud, backwoods stupid hllbilly is gone.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    No, it's a pretty big mistake. 

    Bard is far from being able to handle this role.  We saw it time and again down the stretch, and that wasn't even playoff ball.

    This team has hit rock bottom and continues to dig.  Really, really bad move.  If the Sox are anticipating fewer save situations, they're just wrong.  This team showed zero signs of offense down the stretch, and there is no reason to think they'll be a better hitting team this coming year.  Crawford will not only NOT win the batting title (as some have suggested), he won't even hit .270.

    Bard had a couple of good seasons where he was unhittable.  That period is over.  He's going to struggle in this role. This was a stupid move.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Red Sox made a HUGE mistake in my mind

    It is a mistake by the Sox like when they signed Lackey's, Lugo's and Drew's. This team knows how to waste money. Pitching even got thinner and based on their recent statements they are not going have any splash signinings, will look for in-house solutions. So pull up your pants and stop threading who we should and should not sign. What Mr. B should instead say is this "Owners need more money so they can manage fussball in Europe". But all of us, who spend their $, are the losers in all of this. Every team tries to improve in the offseason we are trying to down-grade not a good strategy to contend. I hate to be throw in blanket even before the season began but mark my words "Sox are not going to make it to the playoffs in 2012 either".

     
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