Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fir.eballer58. Show fir.eballer58's posts

    Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    By John Tomase/Boston Herald

    It was the right decision last winter, it remains the right decision now, and it most definitely will be the right decision in 2014. As much as many fans hate to hear it, the Red Sox [team stats] did the right thing by letting Victor Martinez walk.

    Martinez returned to Fenway Park [www.bostonherald.com/maps/?data=fenwayPark">map] last night for the first time since signing a four-year, $50 million contract with the Detroit Tigers to open the offseason. He arrived with exactly the kind of numbers for the Tigers as he delivered in his year and a half with the Sox, batting .317 with four home runs and 23 RBI.

    Red Sox catchers Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jason Varitek [stats], meanwhile, were at .203 with one homer and 14 RBI combined.

    This juxtaposition alone is proof to many that the Sox screwed up.

    Doesn’t matter. Whatever short-term bump the Red Sox could have received with Martinez in the lineup would have been completely mitigated by the long-term drag his presence would have taken on the lineup and payroll.

    Which is not to say that Martinez wished to leave. He’d have re-signed here in a heartbeat.

    “Definitely,” Martinez said. “Like I say, my wife, my kids, all my family and myself, we did everything we could to come back. That’s the sad part of the game. It is what it is. That’s the business part. We’ve got to move on.”

    The Red Sox made that decision for him, and it’s wise that the ballclub did.

    For one thing, Martinez isn’t even a catcher anymore, at least as far as the Tigers are concerned. He has caught eight games and served as the designated hitter for 20, including last night’s contest.

    The Red Sox were never in love with his abilities behind the plate — it often appeared that former pitching coach John Farrell was calling pitches from the dugout — and it’s fair to wonder how quickly his skills might have eroded if he were catching full time.

    But more importantly, he’s exactly the kind of player you don’t sign to a long-term deal, no matter how productive or beloved he was here. Thanking him for his service was the www.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&topic=Bill+Belichick&mode=score&sorting=pubdate">Bill Belichick move, and that’s meant as a compliment. The Patriots [team stats] coach has exhibited a remarkable ability to identify players on the wrong sides of their primes, remove sentimentality from the equation, and bloodlessly say goodbye. Think Lawyer Milloy, Antowain Smith and Mike Vrabel, to name three.

    The Belichick model operates on the belief that it’s better to watch a veteran deliver one good year elsewhere than risk assuming his entire decline.

    The Red Sox followed this approach to a T with Martinez. Why overpay for what you’ve already seen and probably aren’t going to get again? The 32-year-old is an excellent offensive player, particularly as a switch hitter.

    But is he a better fit for the Sox than Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford, the players the Red Sox signed in part because of the financial flexibility that not signing Martinez afforded them?

    Not a chance, even if he did love it here.

    “Oh man, I don’t have any word to describe it,” Martinez said. “By far, it’s been the best time in my career, just to come in here and play on this team and play in this city in front of these great fans.

    “It’s definitely by far the best time I’ve had in my career.”

    Red Sox fans enjoyed Martinez’ time here, too. He was an excellent teammate and leader, and the Red Sox [team stats] will miss his bat this season.

    What they’ll also miss is his decline, which is exactly the point. Fans may not want to hear it now, but the Red Sox left the Victor Martinez market at just the right time.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    Wrong, a management seeking access homey commentary.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sweet-scar. Show sweet-scar's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    I agree 100%
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    Have you not seen the state of the current catching situation for the Red Sox? By letting Martinez walk did not make the Red Sox better.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    No, it did not, but this homey reporter just got assurance that he'll get an early text message ahead of the press conference on management decisons.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    He needs some "splaining" on why VMart was a waste of money but Crawford wasn't. This guy is a joke.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    Have you not seen the state of the current catching situation for the Red Sox? By letting Martinez walk did not make the Red Sox better.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan


    No, it certainly did not make the Red Sox better, but it also made absolutely no difference in the state of the catching situation for the Red Sox.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    Have you not seen the state of the current catching situation for the Red Sox? By letting Martinez walk did not make the Red Sox better.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan

    How would having another DH improve our catching situation?

    The Tigers don't see Martinez as any more of a catching solution than the Red Sox did.

    Now I think V-Mart would have made a fine 1B/DH (never agreed with those who argued his only value was as a catcher), but I'm more than happy with Gonzo. (Understatement of the week.) Make no mistake, this was a choice between Martinez and Gonzalez, not Martinez and Salty.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go : No, it certainly did not make the Red Sox better, but it also made absolutely no difference in the state of the catching situation for the Red Sox.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Space, I love the way they revise history.  Last year all I heard was that Victor was horrible and everyone ran on him.  Now people are saying he should be catching for the Sox.  he is not catching for the Tigers.  8 games out of 40?  I loved they guy but he was NOT the answer behind the dish.  We all know it...and the team knew it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go : How would having another DH improve our catching situation? The Tigers don't see Martinez as any more of a catching solution than the Red Sox did. Now I think V-Mart would have made a fine 1B/DH (never agreed with those who argued his only value was as a catcher), but I'm more than happy with Gonzo. (Understatement of the week.) Make no mistake, this was a choice between Martinez and Gonzalez, not Martinez and Salty.
    Posted by Flapjack07


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    I still think he would have been a better signing than papi.  Even if he didn't catch more than 8 games...he could if he needed to.  Having a 3rd catcher/DH is much more valuable than a DH only.  Even with Papi playing well...the option should have been declined and VM resigned.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    I still think he would have been a better signing than papi.  Even if he didn't catch more than 8 games...he could if he needed to.  Having a 3rd catcher/DH is much more valuable than a DH only.  Even with Papi playing well...the option should have been declined and VM resigned.
    Posted by adam4522


    The thing is, issues of loyalty to a Sox legend aside, the V-Mart camp was looking for a 4-5 year deal.  Papi was a one year option.  And, when you move beyond this year or maybe next, you are basically paying a lot of money for a full-time DH.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    less than 12.5m...with the roster flexibility of 1b or C.  4-5 years would have had its own potential for making it a not so great deal(see JD drew), but the roster flexibility is worth the risk I think.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    I still think he would have been a better signing than papi.  Even if he didn't catch more than 8 games...he could if he needed to.  Having a 3rd catcher/DH is much more valuable than a DH only.  Even with Papi playing well...the option should have been declined and VM resigned.
    Posted by adam4522


    You don't have lock into a guy for 5 years to give you the flexibility you mention.  You have players with options at the minor league level if you get into a bind.  Victor wanted to catch and would have never agree to sign under those conditions.  Additionally, between Lowrie and Youk, infield flexibility already exists.  Papi year to year was a much better option.  If we had Victor, we would not have AGon.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    I still think he would have been a better signing than papi.  Even if he didn't catch more than 8 games...he could if he needed to.  Having a 3rd catcher/DH is much more valuable than a DH only.  Even with Papi playing well...the option should have been declined and VM resigned.
    Posted by adam4522


    Yes, but the point is still, assuming the goal was to get A-gon whether it was last hot stove, this trade deadline or whenever, then there is no roster flexibility.  A 34+ year old Victor (and I am not try to disparage him, I love Vic and was sad to see him go), there is no roster flexibility.  Just a DH.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    I like the flexibility that the Crawford contract has provided.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    I like the flexibility that the Crawford contract has provided.
    Posted by majorleague


    Gulp.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    Everyone wants to revise history.  Bay got 16+ per year and folks wanted him back.  Crawford is younger and more athletic.  he is slumping now but that doesn't make people like Softy right.  Crawford will find his groove and be dynamic for the Sox.  The Nation has two things 1.no patience  2. Haters who love to be right.

    When things heat up for CC, you will all slink away.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    By John Tomase/Boston Herald I t was the right decision last winter, it remains the right decision now, and it most definitely will be the right decision in 2014. As much as many fans hate to hear it, the Red Sox [ team stats ] did the right thing by letting Victor Martinez walk. Martinez returned to Fenway Park [ www.bostonherald.com/maps/?data=fenwayPark " /> map ] last night for the first time since signing a four-year, $50 million contract with the Detroit Tigers to open the offseason. He arrived with exactly the kind of numbers for the Tigers as he delivered in his year and a half with the Sox, batting .317 with four home runs and 23 RBI. Red Sox catchers Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Jason Varitek [ stats ] , meanwhile, were at .203 with one homer and 14 RBI combined. This juxtaposition alone is proof to many that the Sox screwed up. Doesn’t matter. Whatever short-term bump the Red Sox could have received with Martinez in the lineup would have been completely mitigated by the long-term drag his presence would have taken on the lineup and payroll. Which is not to say that Martinez wished to leave. He’d have re-signed here in a heartbeat. “Definitely,” Martinez said. “Like I say, my wife, my kids, all my family and myself, we did everything we could to come back. That’s the sad part of the game. It is what it is. That’s the business part. We’ve got to move on.” The Red Sox made that decision for him, and it’s wise that the ballclub did. For one thing, Martinez isn’t even a catcher anymore, at least as far as the Tigers are concerned. He has caught eight games and served as the designated hitter for 20, including last night’s contest. The Red Sox were never in love with his abilities behind the plate — it often appeared that former pitching coach John Farrell was calling pitches from the dugout — and it’s fair to wonder how quickly his skills might have eroded if he were catching full time. But more importantly, he’s exactly the kind of player you don’t sign to a long-term deal, no matter how productive or beloved he was here. Thanking him for his service was the www.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&topic=Bill+Belichick&mode=score&sorting=pubdate "> Bill Belichick move, and that’s meant as a compliment. The Patriots [ team stats ] coach has exhibited a remarkable ability to identify players on the wrong sides of their primes, remove sentimentality from the equation, and bloodlessly say goodbye. Think Lawyer Milloy, Antowain Smith and Mike Vrabel, to name three. The Belichick model operates on the belief that it’s better to watch a veteran deliver one good year elsewhere than risk assuming his entire decline. The Red Sox followed this approach to a T with Martinez. Why overpay for what you’ve already seen and probably aren’t going to get again? The 32-year-old is an excellent offensive player, particularly as a switch hitter. But is he a better fit for the Sox than Adrian Gonzalez or Carl Crawford, the players the Red Sox signed in part because of the financial flexibility that not signing Martinez afforded them? Not a chance, even if he did love it here. “Oh man, I don’t have any word to describe it,” Martinez said. “By far, it’s been the best time in my career, just to come in here and play on this team and play in this city in front of these great fans. “It’s definitely by far the best time I’ve had in my career.” Red Sox fans enjoyed Martinez’ time here, too. He was an excellent teammate and leader, and the Red Sox [ team stats ] will miss his bat this season. What they’ll also miss is his decline, which is exactly the point. Fans may not want to hear it now, but the Red Sox left the Victor Martinez market at just the right time.
    Posted by fir.eballer58
    with all due respect, this is the dumbest of the dumbest threads i have had the disdain to stop on and regret to actually open! we are talking 4 years with 3 guaranteed and one vested. have u seen the contratcs the sox have eaten as of late including lugo? with victor u know he can hit. everyone involved with the sox have all said that v-m not only called the pitches but did a great job. if u notice he actually had better numbers  than tek with a ll the pitchers combined and comparative with just the starters. they have the same armstrength at this point. they both stink at throwing out runners for the sox dont emphAsize it. because he's not catching with the tigers is strictly because of the fact they have a proven young stud catcher. do we have one of those? 

    v-mart should have been here instead of tek grooming or training salty. there will be no decline if v-m catches 100 games and DHs another 25 or so. that means stabilityfor at least 2 years, enough time for salty to show you what he is or excel projections. you could always trade a v-m for his hitting will not be declining in the next 3 years. he could always go the dh route, no neeed to have pushed that right now. we want to win it all, have security at every spot yet ignored the one spot that is the most important unnecessarily. like going with a great team with a shaky qb. v-m was a respected leader as well who clearly wanted to be with us according to your own snippets. 

    theo should have also kept jason bay. he proved he could play here as well. hows it working out for craw. teams like the sox cant kepp doing that. its one thing if u really have no choice. its another when u deliberately create uncertainty!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    Yeah, the Sox definitely should have signed Jason Bay.

    2010: 95 G, 6 HR, 47 RBI, .259 BA, .749 OPS]
    2011: 22 G, 2 HR, 7 RBI, .213 BA, .325 OPS
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    Have you not seen the state of the current catching situation for the Red Sox? By letting Martinez walk did not make the Red Sox better.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan

    Check back in three years when Martinez is an overpriced full-time DH.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    It wasn't Victor or AGONE.
    It was Victor or Crawford.

    Not signing Beltre opened it up for AGONE.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-Ted. Show Babe-Ted's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    It wasn't Victor or AGONE. It was Victor or Crawford . Not signing Beltre opened it up for AGONE.
    Posted by harness


    That's exactly what Softlaw said a few months ago.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    First of all you all need to read more better- the dude didn't say "letting VMART walk make the Sox better this year" he said it was the correct decision. That being said I think fans are way way way smarter than Sox Front Office.
    I wish we kept everyone the fans say we should've kept. I'd have Nomar at short, Damon in right (well, to make room the Hall of Famer Jason Bay, is he still alive?), VMART would be my catcher even though his numbers (both offensively and defensively) were pedestrian as a catcher, let's see who else, Pedro and Derek Lowe would be my #1 and #2 starters, Bard would be my closer, Pedey would be benched after he hit .230 when first called up why bother sticking with him, Papi would've been gone 3 years ago, Beckett? nope wouldn't resign that loser... I'm just getting warmed up.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go

    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox made right call in letting Victor Martinez go : That's exactly what Softlaw said a few months ago.
    Posted by Babe-Ted



    Then he was right.
     
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