Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Hardly anyone agreed last winter that we needed to beef up the rotation from the top or near the top.

    Our best chance to improve this month is to build up the pen and find a 3Bman who can hit lefties very well. I wouldn't give up more than rule 5 border players for either.

     




    People though we needed to "beef up" the rotation. Problem was there wasnt a lot of attractive names that fit into the Sox plan that we could, or should have got.

     

    Im also thinking maybe another pen arm, but I also believe they have what they need there internally. People get all gaga over a name like Crain, when realistically its middle relief, and we probably have just as good options in house.

    I dont think Young is the answer at 3b, and certainly not A. Ramirez. There arent many other options that I can see there, so Id pass. Teams are looking for way too much in return so Id just hang tight til the final hour to see if some prices come down. Im sure BC & Co. are checking in with everyone.

     

    Hardly anyone thought our rotation was even close to a top priority. Most felt we were "deep" enough to absorb any injury or unexpected decline, or they liked our pitching prospects so much that they did not want to spend big or trade top prospects to get a 1 or 2 slot SP.

    I was not for spending on a big named FA SP, but did mention that A Sanchez was the best of the group and would have been a better signing than the combined contracts of Drew, SV, Dempster, and Ross. It's always a gamble to trade for a SP or sign marginal top pitchers as FAs, and many of my suggested targets have not faired well this season so far (see B Anderson and B McCarthy), but my point here is that trying to obtain a SP is usually less costly during the winter than at the deadline. "Beefing up" the rotation in the winter makes more sense to me. We can always trade excess at the deadline and get a nice return then, if everything works out well.

    The relatively less costly acquisitions made at the deadline will be 3B or the pen- not a solid SP.

    Sox4ever

     




    Actually, although a TOTR starter is always coveted, our Roration has absorbed injuries and undeperformance this year to our top 2 pitchers. Weve also shown our depth with our prospects stepping up. So even though a good starter is always a +, I think both sides of that arguement were right.

     

    I agree with pretty much everything here.

    [/QUOTE]


    TOTR starter may have been "coveted", but not many felt it was one of our top winter priorities after we signed Dempster. 

    I remember after I made the statement that the chances were at most 50% that Lester and Buch would stay healthy and pitch well all year long, I heard these responses:

    1) If they don't both pitch well, we have no chance anyways.

    2) We have guys like Lackey, Dempster and Doubront, and one can step it up to take their place.

    3) We have a strong depth at SP of Aceves, Tazawa, Mortensen, Webster, DLR, and other prospects that need to get a chance to show they are ML ready.

    Almost nobody felt getting another solid SP was a top priority, or they felt the cost was too high and may have kept us from filling other high need areas. Most posters were more worried about our offense and the possibilities of injury or decline by players like Papi, Ellsbury, Drew, SV, Salty, and more. Others felt we had no chance, unless we picked up a solid RH'd middle of the order hitter as our top priority.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    TOTR starter may have been "coveted", but not many felt it was one of our top winter priorities after we signed Dempster. 

    I remember after I made the statement that the chances were at most 50% that Lester and Buch would stay healthy and pitch well all year long, I heard these responses:

    1) If they don't both pitch well, we have no chance anyways.

    2) We have guys like Lackey, Dempster and Doubront, and one can step it up to take their place.

    3) We have a strong depth at SP of Aceves, Tazawa, Mortensen, Webster, DLR, and other prospects that need to get a chance to show they are ML ready.

    Almost nobody felt getting another solid SP was a top priority, or they felt the cost was too high and may have kept us from filling other high need areas. Most posters were more worried about our offense and the possibilities of injury or decline by players like Papi, Ellsbury, Drew, SV, Salty, and more. Others felt we had no chance, unless we picked up a solid RH'd middle of the order hitter as our top priority.



    I think all things considered Cherington played it reasonably well.  The only pitchers that were available in the offseason that are performing like TOTR guys are Greinke and Sanchez, and they came with hefty price-tags.

    Dempster has outperformed most of the lower-tier pitchers that were available.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but your two favorite targets for starters were Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy, who have both been injured and/or ineffective virtually the whole season.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    By Jayson Stark | ESPN.com
    "Clubs that are in on Cuban pitcher Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez are giving off the vibe that the Red Sox are the favorite, because, more and more, they like the idea of spending the money on a guy they believe is big league-ready more than overpaying in prospects for just about any pitcher on the trade market. "This guy should pitch in the big leagues by September and take a regular turn in the rotation next year," one exec said. "Very impressive guy."

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Worst case scenario this guy is a bust.  Well the dollar cost spent on him may very well end up costing more than the money spent on prospects traded away for even a rental pitcher.

    Think of it this way the Cubs got what would have been equivalent to Henry Owens, Brandon Workman and Will Middlebrooks for Garza.  I'd bet that either Owens is a stud or Middlebrooks recovers and has a great career (both are still possible) and I'd bet Workman has a good mlb career as well.  Without those guys in your system you still have to go out and spend millions to replace them.  If you have them in your system then they fill a hole while costing nothing.

    I'm not saying it isn't risky signing Gonzalez; I think it's very risky.  But it's a managable risk as it preserves what is considered the strongest Sox system in a LONG time. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Ken Rosenthal/FoxSports      

    Do Red Sox have wherewithal/willingness to take on Peavy’s $24M and sign Cuban RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez? “Would be tough,” source says.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Devil's advocate:

    Keep plugging away doing what you are doing--Same Rotation--Same Pen--put Iggy at ss see if he can start hitting again. If no one expresses an interest in Drew sit him and work him in defensively at 2 B, 3 B and 1 B when the opportunity presents itself.

    Send Snyder down and bring up either WMB or X man to play 3 B.

    Keep the flow going between Workman, Wright, Britton, Rubby and Beato. You've given Webster enough chances for this year--he may be the weakest currently--either rebuild his confidence in the minors--maybe even send him to Portland for a couple of starts and move Barnes and Ranaudo up to AAA for a couple of starts.

    The Sox are going to have a hard time staying in contetion with lineups featuring Drew, Iggy, Gomes and Salty in the lineup at the same time or Drew, Iggy, Gomes and Lava; that's like giving solid teams with a good staff four automatic outs. Tell me where have  Carp and Nava been at least in pinchhitting roles?

    It's all based on the best 25 you can put in that dugout. There are better players that may be more productive than that foursome.

    Vs Righty--Nap, Pedroia, Xman, WMB, Carp, Ells, Victorino, Salty and Ortiz

    Vs. Lefty---Nap, Pedroia, Xman, WMB, Gomes, Ells, Victorino, Lava and Ortiz----can you already feel yourself breathing a little easier with these players on the field. Make up your own orders using these guys.

    It would be interesting to see what the Sox record was before WMB demotion and after. I will be up front I was in favor of Will being sent down for Will's sake. It's time we bring WMB and Bogaerts up.

    This team needs to be very careful because not only do you have the Rays and O's breathing down their necks but the Yankees having added Soriano probably batting cleanup behind Cano and in front of Wells and Overbay. Their pitching is a starter away--Kuroda, Nova, CC , Pettite and Hughes. Replace Hughes with--Norris, Santana or Peavy--it may be tough for the Sox to finish higher than 4 th.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN

    Sources: Multiple teams making a run at Phillies Cliff Lee as deadline nears

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN      

    Ruben Amaro Jr. said he has no desire to trade Lee because he sees him as part of Phillies future, but is keeping open mind.

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN      

    "If teams come at us and suggest things, I’m not going to turn off the faucet and stop listening,’’ Amaro said.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN

    Sources: Multiple teams making a run at Phillies Cliff Lee as deadline nears

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN      

    Ruben Amaro Jr. said he has no desire to trade Lee because he sees him as part of Phillies future, but is keeping open mind.

    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN      

    "If teams come at us and suggest things, I’m not going to turn off the faucet and stop listening,’’ Amaro said.

     

     



    Jon Morosi/FoxSports      

    Cliff Lee scratched from start tomorrow due to stiff neck.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Robert Murray @RobertMurrayMLB 1m

    The #RedSox are the favorites to land #WhiteSox pitcher Jake Peavy. Story: http://www.mlbinjurynews.com/2013/07/red-sox-rumors-boston-favorites-for.html 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    I think all things considered Cherington played it reasonably well.  The only pitchers that were available in the offseason that are performing like TOTR guys are Greinke and Sanchez, and they came with hefty price-tags.

     

    Dempster has outperformed most of the lower-tier pitchers that were available.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but your two favorite targets for starters were Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy, who have both been injured and/or ineffective virtually the whole season.  

     

    Yes, the two guys I talked about the most have not done well this year or have been injured.

    While Ben has put together a pretty good team this year and bult up the farm with the Dodger deal, I'm not sure anyone can say his winter signings & trades have been an overall success. Injuries have hurt, but looking in hindsight, only the Uehara deal looks like a great deal for the money.

    Hanrahan: terrible in a tiny sample size- then hurt

    D Ross: started well, slumped, then got hurt

    Uehara: WOW!!! Great signing!

    Gomes: started poorly, but has come on strong- still, I wouldn't say a plus so far

    S Drew: not worth $9.5M

    M Napoli: likely to make close to $11-12M. Is he on pace to earn that?

    Dempster: pitching well, but at $13.5M, not sure I'd say it was a good signing

    Victorino: Hurt too much so far.

     

    Resigning:

    Papi: looking good so far.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Worst case scenario this guy is a bust.  Well the dollar cost spent on him may very well end up costing more than the money spent on prospects traded away for even a rental pitcher.

    Think of it this way the Cubs got what would have been equivalent to Henry Owens, Brandon Workman and Will Middlebrooks for Garza.  I'd bet that either Owens is a stud or Middlebrooks recovers and has a great career (both are still possible) and I'd bet Workman has a good mlb career as well.  Without those guys in your system you still have to go out and spend millions to replace them.  If you have them in your system then they fill a hole while costing nothing.

    I'm not saying it isn't risky signing Gonzalez; I think it's very risky.  But it's a managable risk as it preserves what is considered the strongest Sox system in a LONG time. 



    Good points, but I'm not sure the Sox prospects are equal to the ones the Cubs got. Our system was deeper than the Rangers, so our #8 may not be equal to their #8 and so forth...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    While Ben has put together a pretty good team this year and bult up the farm with the Dodger deal, I'm not sure anyone can say his winter signings & trades have been an overall success. Injuries have hurt, but looking in hindsight, only the Uehara deal looks like a great deal for the money.



    Baseball is a strange game though.  We were 69-93 last year, we didn't make big name upgrades, we've lost Buchholz for a long time, Lester has struggled, and yet we've led the division most of the year.

    But the team has to make the playoffs now, I think, or else Ben's overall performance won't look as good. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    The Sox are going to have a hard time staying in contetion with lineups featuring Drew, Iggy, Gomes and Salty in the lineup at the same time or Drew, Iggy, Gomes and Lava; that's like giving solid teams with a good staff four automatic outs.

    Not sure I'd call these "auto outs":

    Last 28 days OPS:

    .931 Gomes

    .742 Salty

    We have 3 guys with an OPS over .930 the last 28 days (Papi, Naps and Gomes)

    Ellsbury at .896

    Carp at .851

    I'm not going to pretend that our offense isn't struggling. I do think we could use some trade deadline tweeks, but I still think we have less "auto outs" than most AL contenders.

    The last 14 days have some scary numbers, buit the sample sizes are small:

    OPS

    .207 Iggy

    .338 Pedey

    .350 Drew

    .408 Salty

    .541 Nava

    .625 Vict

    (Not counting tonight's rough night)

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    While Ben has put together a pretty good team this year and bult up the farm with the Dodger deal, I'm not sure anyone can say his winter signings & trades have been an overall success. Injuries have hurt, but looking in hindsight, only the Uehara deal looks like a great deal for the money.

     



    Baseball is a strange game though.  We were 69-93 last year, we didn't make big name upgrades, we've lost Buchholz for a long time, Lester has struggled, and yet we've led the division most of the year.

     

    But the team has to make the playoffs now, I think, or else Ben's overall performance won't look as good. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

    Also, one big plus has been Iggy, but it is hard to credit Ben with that. Ben got Drew, and Iggy only got his chance through injury.

    The JBJ decision in April was questionable (in hindsight).

    Any GM would have had to give Lackey and Doubront SP slots.

    To me, the only true and clear pluses since the Dodger trade have been the Uehara signing and the Carp trade.

    I think this team has the make-up to be a contender, but if we do miss the playoffs, Ben's supporters may be scarce around here.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/29451/rival-exec-sox-favorite-to-land-peavy

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bgomez. Show bgomez's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    So much for Gonzalez.

     

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/phillies-to-sign-miguel-alfredo-gonzalez.html

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Even though I was kind of hoping for Gonzalez this might be a good thing.  There was a decent chance he is nothing more than a reliever and while that could still help us a lot this year he just may not be worth anywhere near that money.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    i want peavy....

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    I know this may be a contrarian view, but I'd rather the sox stand pat than grossly overpay for an arm.  We have the pitching depth to pull off a trade but if the bidding get out of hand for Peay, Santana, or Lee then I'll take my chances looking within.  This team has already exceeded expectations this year and the future is bright and I'm not willing to mortgage so much of the future.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I know this may be a contrarian view, but I'd rather the sox stand pat than grossly overpay for an arm.  We have the pitching depth to pull off a trade but if the bidding get out of hand for Peay, Santana, or Lee then I'll take my chances looking within.  This team has already exceeded expectations this year and the future is bright and I'm not willing to mortgage so much of the future.



    but peavy and lee to me are worth it...you don't always get a chance to get talent like them...and they are not rent-a-player...we keep them...i'm all for it...what if we can get rios with peavy? we need a little power in our lineup...i know we are #1 in runs scored but we need that punch in the lineup...but i want peavy....the guy is solid. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Jeff Passan - Yahoo! Sports, MLB Columnist

    The Phillies beat out the Boston Red Sox for Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez. Bidding went down to the wire tonight. More money won for Phils.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:


    Jeff Passan - Yahoo! Sports, MLB Columnist

    The Phillies beat out the Boston Red Sox for Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez. Bidding went down to the wire tonight. More money won for Phils.




    Jeff Passan - Yahoo! Sports, MLB Columnist

    Worth remembering: The Phillies are going to be signing a monster TV deal, $5B-plus easy. They can be the new Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    The Phillies went with the risk reward idea. If Gonzalez turns out to be a long reliever oops! Amaro won't survive. If he turns out to be over rated again Amaro loses! Sox need a hitter capable of carrying the team for two weeks more than a potential arm. They should see if the Rockies would trade them Cuddyer for Thornton as the Rockies were in on Thornton also, it looks like Britton is a keeper and I wouldn't want him bumped from a slot at this point in time. Peavy will wind up in Atlanta, just because the Sox are waiting until the last second again, playing cat and mouse hoping the price will come down. This is so Larry Lucchino, I know Ben is called the GM but i doubt he's making any of the last minute calls. Nickel and dime Lucchino is doing all the negotiating in any deals, at least in the background. Also other names they should be looking to acquire Raj Davis,Michael Young, Alex Rios,Chico Ruiz, and maybe A. Ramirez. If they fail to acquire one pitcher and at least one bat they might as well bring up the kids, and get next years team ready now.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

     By Mike Andrews, SoxProspects.com | ESPNBoston.com

    Last week, I took a look at which prospects the Red Sox might make available at the trade deadline.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Editor-in-Chief Mike Andrews/SoxProspects.com | ESPNBoston.com  outlined the prospects that have been traded by the Red Sox since 2005.

     
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