Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Will Middlebrooks on trade rumors: ‘I have a good opportunity here’ - WEEI blog Rob Bradford http://bit.ly/14k0782 

     
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    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I know this may be a contrarian view, but I'd rather the sox stand pat than grossly overpay for an arm.  We have the pitching depth to pull off a trade but if the bidding get out of hand for Peay, Santana, or Lee then I'll take my chances looking within.  This team has already exceeded expectations this year and the future is bright and I'm not willing to mortgage so much of the future.

     



    but peavy and lee to me are worth it...you don't always get a chance to get talent like them...and they are not rent-a-player...we keep them...i'm all for it...what if we can get rios with peavy? we need a little power in our lineup...i know we are #1 in runs scored but we need that punch in the lineup...but i want peavy....the guy is solid. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Besides last year, Peavey didnt pitch 20 games in a year since 2007 and 2006 was the last time he pitched 30 (minus 2012 of course). Hes been on the DL again this year. Peavy reminds me of Buch. He has "Ace" type stuff, but just cant stay healthy enough to be consideredd a legit "ACE".

    Should the Sox take the chance on having 2 starters that have a track record of landing on the DL every year and giving up good prospects to do it? Also, he will cost them about 20M. If his option is triggered for 2015 for IP, then he will get another 16M. Although I dont think he will be healthy enough for that to happen. Hes 32 now and certainly not getting better.

    To me, its a huge risk.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Buster Olney/ESPN  

    After hearing from folks with other teams, it's clear that PHI signing of Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez viewed as very high risk; elbow questions.

     
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    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Peter Gammons              

    If what GMs say the pricetags on Peavy, Norris, Lee and Santana hold, Wednesday is going to be very quiet.

     
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    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Ken Rosenthal/FoxSports              

    Source says Cubs indeed listening on Samardzija, adds, “asking price high as expected.”

     
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    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Alex Speier/WEEI      

    Red Sox want a reliever to shut down RHH. With Britton's (brief) success, could team explore flipping Matt Thornton? http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/07/27/red-sox-could-seek-right-handed-bullpen-upgrade/ 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I know this may be a contrarian view, but I'd rather the sox stand pat than grossly overpay for an arm.  We have the pitching depth to pull off a trade but if the bidding get out of hand for Peay, Santana, or Lee then I'll take my chances looking within.  This team has already exceeded expectations this year and the future is bright and I'm not willing to mortgage so much of the future.



    I'm almost always for getting a solid starter, but these prices are going to be way too high for 2 month rentals or injury-prone gambles.

    Keep the top prospects, try to make a couple meaningful but low cost tweeks, and let the cards play out.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Gordon Edes/ESPN        

    Rangers, Red Sox, Orioles all in on Michael Young. Probably makes most sense for Orioles as DH

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Sunday morning trade thoughts:

    Looking at the Sox prospects, we have no idea what Workman, Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo and Owens are going to be. Odds are that at least one or two are going to bust, and odds are that at least one or two are going to be useful major-league pitchers. Whether they'll be ace-caliber pitchers or not remains to be seen.

     

    But the best way to get a top-of-the-rotation starter remains to develop one from within. Aces like David Price and Justin Verlander came out of the draft. So did Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and Jered Weaver and Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale. Free-agent successes like CC Sabathia are greatly outweighed by free-agent busts -- like John Lackey was for the first three years of his contract.

     

    And because these starters are so valuable, very few of them are moved on the trade market. James Shields was the only such starter who was traded last offseason.(Do you wish Cherington had traded for R.A. Dickey or Mark Buehrle?). Lee is the only such starter who even has a chance to be traded this July and he missed yesterday’s start with neck stiffness. Teams can only sign or trade for players that are available. The best way to get an ace is to develop him.

     

    Look at the Rays; the Rays bring up great young pitching because (A) they've drafted well; (B) they've traded established pitchers for more good young pitchers; (C) they develop pitchers well.

     

    They've turned the No. 1 overall pick into David Price. Most teams can do that. But they also turned Matt Garza into Chris Archer and James Shields into Jake Odorizzi and Scott Kazmir into Alex Torres. The Red Sox don't replenish the system quite as often as Tampa Bay because they can afford to hang on to those more established pitchers through their primes.

     

    The Rays also found the likes of Shields, Matt Moore, etc., deeper in the draft. That's really good scouting and developing.

     

    There are different ways to build good teams, and different ways to build bad teams, and that often those ways coincide. The Blue Jays and Dodgers each took go-for-it approaches; it's worked better for LA, although I think one can argue Toronto could win the NL West this year even with how it's played. Tampa Bay has built from within more quickly. Pittsburgh has taken a while after a bunch of failed development. Kansas City is still waiting.

     

    The best approach to me is building from within and supplementing from the outside, the way the Cardinals and Giants have the last few years and the way the Red Sox did for their two titles. It appears that's what Cherington is trying to do now.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NotPickinPeyton. Show NotPickinPeyton's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    Sunday morning trade thoughts:

    Looking at the Sox prospects, we have no idea what Workman, Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo and Owens are going to be. Odds are that at least one or two are going to bust, and odds are that at least one or two are going to be useful major-league pitchers. Whether they'll be ace-caliber pitchers or not remains to be seen.

     

    But the best way to get a top-of-the-rotation starter remains to develop one from within. Aces like David Price and Justin Verlander came out of the draft. So did Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and Jered Weaver and Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale. Free-agent successes like CC Sabathia are greatly outweighed by free-agent busts -- like John Lackey was for the first three years of his contract.

     

    And because these starters are so valuable, very few of them are moved on the trade market. James Shields was the only such starter who was traded last offseason.(Do you wish Cherington had traded for R.A. Dickey or Mark Buehrle?). Lee is the only such starter who even has a chance to be traded this July and he missed yesterday’s start with neck stiffness. Teams can only sign or trade for players that are available. The best way to get an ace is to develop him.

     

    Look at the Rays; the Rays bring up great young pitching because (A) they've drafted well; (B) they've traded established pitchers for more good young pitchers; (C) they develop pitchers well.

     

    They've turned the No. 1 overall pick into David Price. Most teams can do that. But they also turned Matt Garza into Chris Archer and James Shields into Jake Odorizzi and Scott Kazmir into Alex Torres. The Red Sox don't replenish the system quite as often as Tampa Bay because they can afford to hang on to those more established pitchers through their primes.

     

    The Rays also found the likes of Shields, Matt Moore, etc., deeper in the draft. That's really good scouting and developing.

     

    There are different ways to build good teams, and different ways to build bad teams, and that often those ways coincide. The Blue Jays and Dodgers each took go-for-it approaches; it's worked better for LA, although I think one can argue Toronto could win the NL West this year even with how it's played. Tampa Bay has built from within more quickly. Pittsburgh has taken a while after a bunch of failed development. Kansas City is still waiting.

     

    The best approach to me is building from within and supplementing from the outside, the way the Cardinals and Giants have the last few years and the way the Red Sox did for their two titles. It appears that's what Cherington is trying to do now.

     




    And of course, NONE of this had to do with the position in the draft with which the RAYS were working vice the position in the annual draft which with the Sox were working?  Right?

    I know the Rays are powerhouses now, and have a bunch of good young pitching... but until the last 5 years they had almost nothing... and were annually picking in the top third of the draft.

     

    They did a great job building from within- absolutely super...  and my lord have they got some good pitchers.... but positioning worked wonders... I am not sure the Sox fan base would accept 10 years or so of finishing at the bottom praying for what the ays have developed.

    Oh and what happens if one or two of those great pitchers you see.... end up with the injury history of Peavy/Buchholz?... Hmmm?  Both those two pitchers would fit in with the best of them when healthy.  What happens if Price wins ten games then can't be on the field for the next 3 months.... He is still great... but only when he can stay healthy....

    I "believe" we have some good pitching stepping up also... but picking in a slot between 22-30 annually is more diffcult than picking in slots 3-10 annually.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    Sunday morning trade thoughts:

    Looking at the Sox prospects, we have no idea what Workman, Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo and Owens are going to be. Odds are that at least one or two are going to bust, and odds are that at least one or two are going to be useful major-league pitchers. Whether they'll be ace-caliber pitchers or not remains to be seen.

     

    But the best way to get a top-of-the-rotation starter remains to develop one from within. Aces like David Price and Justin Verlander came out of the draft. So did Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and Jered Weaver and Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale. Free-agent successes like CC Sabathia are greatly outweighed by free-agent busts -- like John Lackey was for the first three years of his contract.

     

    And because these starters are so valuable, very few of them are moved on the trade market. James Shields was the only such starter who was traded last offseason.(Do you wish Cherington had traded for R.A. Dickey or Mark Buehrle?). Lee is the only such starter who even has a chance to be traded this July and he missed yesterday’s start with neck stiffness. Teams can only sign or trade for players that are available. The best way to get an ace is to develop him.

     

    Look at the Rays; the Rays bring up great young pitching because (A) they've drafted well; (B) they've traded established pitchers for more good young pitchers; (C) they develop pitchers well.

     

    They've turned the No. 1 overall pick into David Price. Most teams can do that. But they also turned Matt Garza into Chris Archer and James Shields into Jake Odorizzi and Scott Kazmir into Alex Torres. The Red Sox don't replenish the system quite as often as Tampa Bay because they can afford to hang on to those more established pitchers through their primes.

     

    The Rays also found the likes of Shields, Matt Moore, etc., deeper in the draft. That's really good scouting and developing.

     

    There are different ways to build good teams, and different ways to build bad teams, and that often those ways coincide. The Blue Jays and Dodgers each took go-for-it approaches; it's worked better for LA, although I think one can argue Toronto could win the NL West this year even with how it's played. Tampa Bay has built from within more quickly. Pittsburgh has taken a while after a bunch of failed development. Kansas City is still waiting.

     

    The best approach to me is building from within and supplementing from the outside, the way the Cardinals and Giants have the last few years and the way the Red Sox did for their two titles. It appears that's what Cherington is trying to do now.

     



    Good points.

    It's hard to ever imagine the Sox trading a guy like Shields to replenish the youth front. I was for trading Lester for Myers, but only if we could find a way to get another solid SP somewhere else (maybe by signing A Sanchez).

    We do have 6 or 7 SP prospects (add Britton to your 6) who could produce an ace type starter in the near future, but you are right; chances are 2-3 may end up being busts. Trading some for a solid starter is a big risk, since it's probably a guess on which 2-3 will be busts and which 2-3 will be useful starters in the coming years.

    I like the way our future looks and would prefer not to deal away any top prospects for a 2 month rental or injury risk pitcher. However, if a guy like Shields or Gio Gonzalez comes available, we need to consider doing what it takes to get one.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Ken Rosenthal/FoxSports      

    From late last night: A potentially stunning new entry into the trade market. Story: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/texas-rangers-might-trade-joe-nathan-internal-discussions-072713 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    And of course, NONE of this had to do with the position in the draft with which the RAYS were working vice the position in the annual draft which with the Sox were working?  Right?

    Nobody is saying the Rays have not been helped by having top 3rd draft picks for many years. They have a few key players obtained that way and a few more by trading some of them for prospects. The Rays have also had some busts in the top of the draft, and maybe passed over some better players, because they knew they would have signing issues due to budget constraints- something the Sox never had. (Note: although the Sox mostly drafted in the bottom 3rd, they often got good players that fell due to wanting too much money that lower draft teams could afford.)

    The Rays have had 6 drafts since their last top 3rd pick has been meaningful (David Price in 2007). Tim Beckham in 2008 has not amounted to much. Yes, they are still reaping the awards of being so bad for so many years prior to 2008, but many MLB teams have been worse for longer and are still nowhere close to where the Rays are now.

    The Rays also became so good by drafting several key players way down in the draft, stockpiling comp picks by allowing marginal players to bolt to free agency, trading top players (usually just before they decline) and by signing journeymen players who go on to have career years with them. None of these have to do with drafting high. 

     

     

    I know the Rays are powerhouses now, and have a bunch of good young pitching... but until the last 5 years they had almost nothing... and were annually picking in the top third of the draft.

     

    They did a great job building from within- absolutely super...  and my lord have they got some good pitchers.... but positioning worked wonders... I am not sure the Sox fan base would accept 10 years or so of finishing at the bottom praying for what the ays have developed.

    No true Sox fan could except this as a strategy, but they would also never accept the trades of Garza, Kazmir, Bartlett, and Shields, yet those are also keys to the Rays continued success and regeneration over the last 5 years.

     

    Oh and what happens if one or two of those great pitchers you see.... end up with the injury history of Peavy/Buchholz?... Hmmm?  Both those two pitchers would fit in with the best of them when healthy.  What happens if Price wins ten games then can't be on the field for the next 3 months.... He is still great... but only when he can stay healthy....

    I "believe" we have some good pitching stepping up also... but picking in a slot between 22-30 annually is more diffcult than picking in slots 3-10 annually.

    Certainly this is true, but as I pointed out earlier, we often were able to draft good players that fell in the draft due to their high contract demands. The Rays also failed to sign their two top picks in 2009. When has that ever happened to a rich team like the Sox?

    You list the one circumstance that has aided the Rays' building of a contender, but I think most Rays fans would swap the totality of circumstances with the Sox any day of the week.

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to NotPickinPeyton's comment:

     

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

     

     

     

    Sunday morning trade thoughts:

    Looking at the Sox prospects, we have no idea what Workman, Webster, De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo and Owens are going to be. Odds are that at least one or two are going to bust, and odds are that at least one or two are going to be useful major-league pitchers. Whether they'll be ace-caliber pitchers or not remains to be seen.

     

    But the best way to get a top-of-the-rotation starter remains to develop one from within. Aces like David Price and Justin Verlander came out of the draft. So did Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and Jered Weaver and Clayton Kershaw and Chris Sale. Free-agent successes like CC Sabathia are greatly outweighed by free-agent busts -- like John Lackey was for the first three years of his contract.

     

    And because these starters are so valuable, very few of them are moved on the trade market. James Shields was the only such starter who was traded last offseason.(Do you wish Cherington had traded for R.A. Dickey or Mark Buehrle?). Lee is the only such starter who even has a chance to be traded this July and he missed yesterday’s start with neck stiffness. Teams can only sign or trade for players that are available. The best way to get an ace is to develop him.

     

    Look at the Rays; the Rays bring up great young pitching because (A) they've drafted well; (B) they've traded established pitchers for more good young pitchers; (C) they develop pitchers well.

     

    They've turned the No. 1 overall pick into David Price. Most teams can do that. But they also turned Matt Garza into Chris Archer and James Shields into Jake Odorizzi and Scott Kazmir into Alex Torres. The Red Sox don't replenish the system quite as often as Tampa Bay because they can afford to hang on to those more established pitchers through their primes.

     

    The Rays also found the likes of Shields, Matt Moore, etc., deeper in the draft. That's really good scouting and developing.

     

    There are different ways to build good teams, and different ways to build bad teams, and that often those ways coincide. The Blue Jays and Dodgers each took go-for-it approaches; it's worked better for LA, although I think one can argue Toronto could win the NL West this year even with how it's played. Tampa Bay has built from within more quickly. Pittsburgh has taken a while after a bunch of failed development. Kansas City is still waiting.

     

    The best approach to me is building from within and supplementing from the outside, the way the Cardinals and Giants have the last few years and the way the Red Sox did for their two titles. It appears that's what Cherington is trying to do now.

     

     

     




    And of course, NONE of this had to do with the position in the draft with which the RAYS were working vice the position in the annual draft which with the Sox were working?  Right?

     

     

    I know the Rays are powerhouses now, and have a bunch of good young pitching... but until the last 5 years they had almost nothing... and were annually picking in the top third of the draft.

     

    They did a great job building from within- absolutely super...  and my lord have they got some good pitchers.... but positioning worked wonders... I am not sure the Sox fan base would accept 10 years or so of finishing at the bottom praying for what the ays have developed.

    Oh and what happens if one or two of those great pitchers you see.... end up with the injury history of Peavy/Buchholz?... Hmmm?  Both those two pitchers would fit in with the best of them when healthy.  What happens if Price wins ten games then can't be on the field for the next 3 months.... He is still great... but only when he can stay healthy....

    I "believe" we have some good pitching stepping up also... but picking in a slot between 22-30 annually is more diffcult than picking in slots 3-10 annually.

     



    I don't know when last you checked, but that hasn't happened in 6 yrs; yet they're still developing P like no one else.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Nick Cafardo        

    The Rangers and Orioles would provide Michael Young a definitive role but the Red Sox may have the best pkg to offer Philly

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    The Rays pitching staff today:

     

    Price: drafted #1 (2007- 7 drafts ago)

    Moore: drafted in 8th round #245 (2007)

    Hellickson: drafted in 4th round #118 (2005)

    Archer: traded Garza (2011)

    A Cobb: drfated in 4th round at #109 (2006) 

    R Hernandez: signed as FA (2013)

    F Rodney: signed as FA (2012)

    J Peralta: signed as FA (2010 & 2012)

    K Farnsworth: signed as FA (2011 & 2013)

    A Torres: traded Kazmir (2009)

    J McGee: drafted in 4th round (2004)

    C Ramos & B Gomes: traded Bartlett (2010)

    Niemann: drafted 1st round #4 (2004) On DL all year

    J Ordorizzi & M Montgomery: traded Shields

    J Lueke: traded John Jaso

     

    Only Price and Niemann can be considered as additions due to being a top draft choice.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Scott Lauber/Boston Herald      

    Given fluidity of pitching market and sky-high asking prices from sellers, could be much activity in 24 hrs before 4 p.m. Wednesday

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Who is desperate and who is not?

    That's what it will come down to.

    Maybe the prices will come down at the last moment, if nobody is greatly overpaying for pitchers.

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Sox weigh pros, cons of Lee deal

     http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/29485/sox-weigh-pros-cons-of-lee-deal 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:




    Buster Olney/ESPN        

    PHI has reached out to other teams to let other teams know that players are available, including Michael Young. Cliff Lee not on the list.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Buster Olney - ESPN, Senior Baseball Writer

    Other teams are reasonably certain the White Sox are going to trade Jake Peavy. He's preparing to go. t.co/wc87gauf0N
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Sox weigh pros, cons of Lee deal

     http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/29485/sox-weigh-pros-cons-of-lee-deal 

     




     

    Buster Olney/ESPN        

    PHI has reached out to other teams to let other teams know that players are available, including Michael Young. Cliff Lee not on the list.

    [/QUOTE]

    Michael Young has a .695 OPS against lefties this year.  Bogaerts has a .972 OPS against lefties at Pawtucket.  I don't understand why the Sox would even be interested.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Jim Bowden - ESPN.com, Baseball Analyst

    Peavy about to be traded according to Bruce Levine ESPN Chicago and it's NOT the Cardinals, Red Sox, Orioles....could be A's???
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors

    Braves just lost Hudson

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    Re: Red Sox non-waiver deadline July 31st rumors


    Jayson Stark/ESPN        

    White Sox haven't shown interest in eating any of Peavy's $ (close to $24M left). That & health were big issues for Atl, Bal, StL & even LA

     

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