Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to royf19's comment:

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.




    Not too shabby!

    Lackey has been a big boost to the rotation.

    I hope he can keep it up.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    Good stuff.  I'm not surprised because innings pitched is almost the first stat I check when looking at pitchers. 

    On a slightly different note, Girardi took Pettitte out last night a little early--in the fifth inning when the score was tied, which meant Pettitte couldn't get the win.  As it turns out, it was absolutely the right call because the bullpen held the Indians (including not letting men on 2d and 3d score after Pettitte left the game) scoreless for 4.1 innings.  My point is sometimes the manager does need to pull that starter, even an Andy Pettitte. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    Rotation Average:

    Detroit: 6.20 innings

    Red Sox: 6.14

    Rays: 6.04

    Rangers: 5.90

    Yanks: 5.82

    Pretty even - .38 difference from top to bottom.

    BTW, what about the Orioles?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    Actually, I did the Orioles. Forgot to include them.

    Gonzalez 6.0
    Chen 5.9
    Garcia 5.9
    Tillman 5.8
    Hammell 5.7

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to royf19's comment:

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.




    But having Cliff Lee, Lester and Clay could make our team, or any contender for that matter, very special and tough to beat come playoff time.  The Yankees biggest problem in recent PS years is being beat by teams with better pitching like Detroit.  At the present time, regardless of how many innings our pitchers go compared to others still doesn't give us the advantage.

    Lee could!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to royf19's comment:

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.




    roy

    I / we appreciate the effort put into this OP

    and point  points taken

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to craze4sox's comment:


    But having Cliff Lee, Lester and Clay could make our team, or any contender for that matter, very special and tough to beat come playoff time.  The Yankees biggest problem in recent PS years is being beat by teams with better pitching like Detroit. 

     

    how unique

     

    At the present time, regardless of how many innings our pitchers go compared to others still doesn't give us the advantage.

    sure gives the BP an advantage

    Lee could!

    that too




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.

     




    But having Cliff Lee, Lester and Clay could make our team, or any contender for that matter, very special and tough to beat come playoff time.  The Yankees biggest problem in recent PS years is being beat by teams with better pitching like Detroit.  At the present time, regardless of how many innings our pitchers go compared to others still doesn't give us the advantage.

     

    Lee could!




    I like Lee and he would be an obvious upgrade, and I would be willing to pay the $, but I would be wary of giving up any major prospects for him,  the deal should be for A- prospects at best and we relieve the Philles of the dollar obligation.....Lee, despite having a good year is showing a velocity drop this year and look at fast it went bad for Halladay. Lee will be 35 in August....so I would be very stubborn with the Phils

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to tomnev's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

     

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.

     

     




    But having Cliff Lee, Lester and Clay could make our team, or any contender for that matter, very special and tough to beat come playoff time.  The Yankees biggest problem in recent PS years is being beat by teams with better pitching like Detroit.  At the present time, regardless of how many innings our pitchers go compared to others still doesn't give us the advantage.

     

     

    Lee could!




    I like Lee and he would be an obvious upgrade, and I would be willing to pay the $, but I would be wary of giving up any major prospects for him,  the deal should be for A- prospects at best and we relieve the Philles of the dollar obligation.....Lee, despite having a good year is showing a velocity drop this year and look at fast it went bad for Halladay. Lee will be 35 in August....so I would be very stubborn with the Phils

     



    Its hard to explain guys like Halladay, even Jimenez who looks to be recovering a bit.  Theres a risk in any possible trade.  There are just as many risks some take on unproven youngsters to become the future.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to tomnev's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

     

     

    Too often this year, I've read complaints about how Sox pitchers don't go deep into games. Well, comparing the Sox staff to other top staffs in the AL and AL East shows they're as good or even better.

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters for the following teams, which include the top AL East teams plus the Rangers and Tigers who rank high in team pitching. 

    The Sox are better with their top 2 and comparable or better with their bottom two. Lackey is just a tad off from Fister, Hellickson and Pettitte.

    Red Sox                Rangers          Yankees               Rays                   Tigers
    Buchholtz 7.1       Davish 6.8      Sabathia 6.7         Cobb 6.7            Scherzer 6.9
    Lester 6.6             Holland 6.7     Kuroda 6.1           Price 6.1            Sanchez 6.5
    Lackey 5.9            Grimm 5.9      Pettitte 6.0          Hellickson 6.1     Fister 6.2
    Dempster 5.6        Tepesch 5.5    Hughes 5.3          Hernandez 5.7   Verlander 6.0
    Doubront 5.6        Ogando 5.5     Phelps/Nova 5.0   Moore 5.6           Porcello 5.5

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.

     

     




    But having Cliff Lee, Lester and Clay could make our team, or any contender for that matter, very special and tough to beat come playoff time.  The Yankees biggest problem in recent PS years is being beat by teams with better pitching like Detroit.  At the present time, regardless of how many innings our pitchers go compared to others still doesn't give us the advantage.

     

     

    Lee could!

     




    I like Lee and he would be an obvious upgrade, and I would be willing to pay the $, but I would be wary of giving up any major prospects for him,  the deal should be for A- prospects at best and we relieve the Philles of the dollar obligation.....Lee, despite having a good year is showing a velocity drop this year and look at fast it went bad for Halladay. Lee will be 35 in August....so I would be very stubborn with the Phils

     



    I like Lee as well, but I don't see it happening for lots of reasons:

    1.  Philly just signed a monster TV contract - Money not an issue for them

    2.  They aren't going to blow it up and go with a youth movement.  They feel they have enough of a nucleus to put a competitive team on the field

    3.  They would likely have to be overwhelmed with an offer to move him, and Lee will have plenty of suitors (Baltimore, Texas, Detroit, NY, Boston to name a few in the AL alone.)

    4.  My guess (just a guess) is that they would be able to move him for at least 2 top prospects and not have to eat a dime near the deadline.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to royf19's comment:

    Oh, and so much for the myth that the Rangers, because of Nolan Ryan, use their pitchers deeper in games.



    The thing about Nolan Ryan has always struck me funny.  As you say, Rangers pitchers are on the same limits as everybody else.

    Also, in 2011, at the trade deadline the Rangers traded for not one but two late-inning relievers, Uehara and Adams.  This gave them a stacked bullpen that also included Feliz and Oliver, and in the postseason, Ogando.

    In the postseason that year the Rangers' game plan was to get 5-6 innings out of their starters and then turn it over to the bullpen parade.  Quite a contrast to Ryan's supposed new philosophy.

    Also of note is that the trade for Uehara turned out to be a steal for the Orioles as they acquired current MVP candidate Chris Davis, plus reliever Tommy Hunter.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Here are the average innings per start of the top five starters

    There's your statistical loaded flaw.

    Please brush up by reading "How to Lie with Statistics"

     

    Manager John has done a good job handling the entire pitching staff, after circumstantially having to put a heavy load on the pen early on.

    Another poster posed Cliff Lee as a trading tarket. He is correct, assuming the Phillies would agree to take Ellsbury and Dumpster and Webster or De La Rosa (and Owens if necessary). Phillies are floundering with an impotent offense and injury plagued Chase, where Ellsbury would be a cheap upgrade to Revere and allow the Phillies to decide if they want to pay Ellsbury's FA years or simply go with the young Revere in 2014.

    It would be a good trade for both teams, as Ellsbury would give the Phillies more offense than Revere in the NL game, which is more than enough to offset the drop-off to Dumpster, whose NL ERA would likely drop to around 3.5 in the NL in the every 5 days he actually plays baseball.

     




    I have a funny feeling Ells may put up better numbers in the NL but his health and inconsistency may always be a concern.  After watching Bradley and Iggy so far in their return I also have to reiterate a past statement.

    My favorite young players are those who can fail originally but pick themselves up and continue to work hard in hopes of getting another chance at the big league level.  Even nicer to eventually see them take advantage of it. 

    Same goes for Nava!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to soxdawg08's comment:

    Rotation Average:

    Detroit: 6.20 innings

    Red Sox: 6.14

    Rays: 6.04

    Rangers: 5.90

    Yanks: 5.82

    Pretty even - .38 difference from top to bottom.

    BTW, what about the Orioles?

     



    In addition, this doesn't account for ballpark, which makes it more of an accomplishment for the Red Sox staff.  Detroit already has an edge given where they play half their games.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    Why would the Phillies trade Lee for 1/2 season of Ellsbury if they're already out of contention?


    "Who would have guessed it possible that waiting is sustainable, a place with its own harvests -- or that in time's fullness the diamonds of patience couldn't be distinguished from genuine brilliance or hardness." --Kay Ryan.

    "Everything is happening, all the time, very fast. I like that." -- Warren Ellis



    For a certain obessessive type, every Sox trade involves moving Ellsbury.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

     

    Why would the Phillies trade Lee for 1/2 season of Ellsbury if they're already out of contention?


    "Who would have guessed it possible that waiting is sustainable, a place with its own harvests -- or that in time's fullness the diamonds of patience couldn't be distinguished from genuine brilliance or hardness." --Kay Ryan.

    "Everything is happening, all the time, very fast. I like that." -- Warren Ellis

     



    For a certain obessessive type, every Sox trade involves moving Ellsbury.

     




    No kidding...No team whos waving the white flag will want Dempster or Ellsbury. makes 0 sense. Prospects and young players with years of control.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitchers Go As Deep (or Deeper) Into Games As Other Staffs

    The innings pitched was almost always overrated by people that just wanted to complain about things.  Over the past 4 years, the RS are virtually spot on identical to the league average on IP/GS.  The league average is 5.95 and the RS average is 5.92.  That difference equates to 5 IPs a year in total.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share