Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    II don't know how anyone can think this or the second round pick can be considered screw ups! Trey Ball was the #1 rated lefty in the draft, Stankiewicz was a second round pick last year @ # 75 by the NYM. Though neither of these guys are name college players they are either all americans or stars of their teams. I had them taking Frazier, but he was off the board as was Moran. They didn't have even a chinaman's chance at getting Gray or Appel. Only time will tell if they were good selections.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    The farm system has no good bats to speak of and so they take a pitcher.... Ben is an idiot.



    So after numerous reports scrutinized by a team of professional scouts, exhaustive vetting, statistical projections and  meetings, I'm going to trust the word of some fan on a chatboard that Ben is an idiot.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    II don't know how anyone can think this or the second round pick can be considered screw ups! Trey Ball was the #1 rated lefty in the draft, Stankiewicz was a second round pick last year @ # 75 by the NYM. Though neither of these guys are name college players they are either all americans or stars of their teams. I had them taking Frazier, but he was off the board as was Moran. They didn't have even a chinaman's chance at getting Gray or Appel. Only time will tell if they were good selections.



    +1

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    Huge disapointment that they didn't get Stewart or Frazier, which sounded possible but turned out not to be, but he is a major roll of the dice in terms of upside. He may end up a huge upside, mega stud pick if he adds some muscle because he is very athletic for his size. And by all accounts a coachable, level headed young man. I'm not seing the curveball he is supposedly going to have but I do see a decent changeup already and some reports he has hit 96 on the gun. He could well add even 30-40 lbs on that frame potentially and add a lot of velocity over time. 

    He also may not be a hard sign even a little underslot maybe. And their #2 pick also fits that description. They may have be planning to have some cash remaining for an overslot guy in day 2. I don't know but it's possible that is part of the planning. If so, I am more supportive of these picks.

    I'm glad they have remained focused on pitching, and especially starting pitching. Look at all the picks and trades they have made for pitching. They clearly have made a choice to put their cash towards pitching. Our farm system now has really stockpiled young pitching talent.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    Will Ball sign?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?


    The things I like and don't like about 3-Ball.

    Dislikes

    1-High school pitcher. For me you have to be special to be worthy of the 7th pick if you are a high school pitcher. Ball is borderline special.

    2-Age. He is very old for a high school player. This for me is his biggest flaw.

    3-A somewhat negative late season scouting report. Don't remember where, but it was late in the year and the guy had him at 88-92. I am not sure how much I buy the 91-95 reports. Slight concern about health with this. I remember getting very excited about Ball until I read that report. That cooled me off some.

    4-Movement on his fast ball. Don't see much.  Not particularly tricky or hard to pick up the ball out of his hand either.

    5-No dominant breaking pitch yet. Again, he was taken 7th. If he was taken 20th, this would be less of a concern. But you should expect awesomeness from a 7th pick HS pitcher and atleast 1 nasty pitch. He has none.

    6-Frame. He looks naturally skinny. Like the blade was. I lean towards horse builds. Not a huge negative, but give me a Clemens over a Kershaw body type.

    7.Only threw 46 innings. Would like to hear why. That seems very low, even for a northern pitcher.

     

    Likes

     


    1-Tall. Lean towards tall pitchers and dislike short pitchers. Always exceptions to the rule, but tall is very good and 6-6 is perfect.

    2-185. The hope is that he can add 40 pounds. My guess is it will only be 25. But thats still a plus. Also not too concerned he is juiced yet. I can't say that as far as many of the college players drafted are concerned. Probably the least likely roider of any player drafted today.

    3-Easy, smooth, and clean delivery. This is huge to me. Doesn't look like a reliever delivery. Looks like a classic lefty starter delivery. A pitcher, not a thrower. This is incredibly important when it comes to health long term.

    4-Repeats delivery. This is crucial for control. Think about Miller, Kukuk, and Owens. All are tall lefties and all have control issues. I think Ball will be different.

    5-Athlete. Helps in a lot of subtle ways.

    6-Seems to have the makings of a decent curve ball and good change up down the line. His frame and style of pitching are condusive to these two pitches. I expect them to develope better then some think. Atleast there is good hope for them.

    7-Stats. Close to 2 K's an inning and an ERA below 1 are the things you expect from a great HS pitcher. He has more then 2 K's and an ERA of 0.70. Although I imagine the competion was very weak.

    8-Good experience against quality summer ball. He has done this effectively in the summer circuit easing concerns about his Indiana competion.

    9-Fresh arm. Reports that his Dad didn't let him throw a curve I think is a good thing..... I think. Will focus now on pitching exclusively aswell.

    10-Command and control. The videos and stats I have seen make me believe he will have surprisingly good command and control. Better then some scouts think. I think he will throw strikes, keep the ball down and eventually hit corners.

    11-Good makeup.

    12-Lefty.


    Seven concerns is fewer then I had for Stewart, so not too bad. And a bunch of things to love and like. If only he wasn't 19 this month.Cry

    I still rank Trey Ball comfortably in my top 100 nationally[80's] and 5th on the red sox, behind Barnes and above Owens. I do think he is currently a better prospect then Owens although all 3 starters are very close in my mind.

    However, I will always compare him to Austin Meadows. We will see.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    BMav--not that I don't trust your Likes and Dislikes but have you seen the kid play?

    Have you talked with him?

    Have you talked with his parents, coaches and AAU people that have seen him pitch, American Legion people, College Coaches, other recruiters. Have you read cross checkers reports and seen scouting agency data.

    The last month did you see any of his games or sit in the Board Room at Fenway to plan strategy.

    Did you look the kid in the eye and say if we draft you will you sign or are you going to college in Sept.?

    My report to Ben as the Draft Guru will have all your data plus as much other ammo as possible to make my case. I think the Sox like the Rays Model and are looking for young pitching arms.

    Just look at the big arm names that are on the top 20 Sox Pitching  Prospects:

    Webster, RDLR, Barnes, Workman, Britton, Ranaudo, Owens and others I'm leaving out. Can you find three names that are can't miss from that group to be in the rotation. Just the best three.

    I want a Hellickson, Moore, Cobb, Price and _______: I want all home grown guys we have drafted, worked with at every level, we want to know them better than their parents and best friends by the time they take the mound in Tampa. That's what Ben wants in Boston , in my estimation.

    If Ball is one of the top guys the system works!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    Will Ball sign?



    The Sox must have had that conversation with the prospect and his parents before yesterday.

    They know the Slot Price and the Committment. Las-hopefully he signs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    I love how some people who probably know next to nothing about Ball (admittedly, I don't either) are already screaming "Horrible, wasted pick!"  I understand wanting a high-ceiling bat like Meadows, but there are much worse things than picking up a high-ceiling LHP, too.

    Who knows when the Red Sox will get to draft this high again (I hope no time soon), so I hope they made the most of it. It will be years before we really know how this turned out.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to BMav's comment:


    The things I like and don't like about 3-Ball.

    Dislikes

    1-High school pitcher. For me you have to be special to be worthy of the 7th pick if you are a high school pitcher. Ball is borderline special.

    2-Age. He is very old for a high school player. This for me is his biggest flaw.

    3-A somewhat negative late season scouting report. Don't remember where, but it was late in the year and the guy had him at 88-92. I am not sure how much I buy the 91-95 reports. Slight concern about health with this. I remember getting very excited about Ball until I read that report. That cooled me off some.

    4-Movement on his fast ball. Don't see much.  Not particularly tricky or hard to pick up the ball out of his hand either.

    5-No dominant breaking pitch yet. Again, he was taken 7th. If he was taken 20th, this would be less of a concern. But you should expect awesomeness from a 7th pick HS pitcher and atleast 1 nasty pitch. He has none.

    6-Frame. He looks naturally skinny. Like the blade was. I lean towards horse builds. Not a huge negative, but give me a Clemens over a Kershaw body type.

    7.Only threw 46 innings. Would like to hear why. That seems very low, even for a northern pitcher.

     

    Likes

     


    1-Tall. Lean towards tall pitchers and dislike short pitchers. Always exceptions to the rule, but tall is very good and 6-6 is perfect.

    2-185. The hope is that he can add 40 pounds. My guess is it will only be 25. But thats still a plus. Also not too concerned he is juiced yet. I can't say that as far as many of the college players drafted are concerned. Probably the least likely roider of any player drafted today.

    3-Easy, smooth, and clean delivery. This is huge to me. Doesn't look like a reliever delivery. Looks like a classic lefty starter delivery. A pitcher, not a thrower. This is incredibly important when it comes to health long term.

    4-Repeats delivery. This is crucial for control. Think about Miller, Kukuk, and Owens. All are tall lefties and all have control issues. I think Ball will be different.

    5-Athlete. Helps in a lot of subtle ways.

    6-Seems to have the makings of a decent curve ball and good change up down the line. His frame and style of pitching are condusive to these two pitches. I expect them to develope better then some think. Atleast there is good hope for them.

    7-Stats. Close to 2 K's an inning and an ERA below 1 are the things you expect from a great HS pitcher. He has more then 2 K's and an ERA of 0.70. Although I imagine the competion was very weak.

    8-Good experience against quality summer ball. He has done this effectively in the summer circuit easing concerns about his Indiana competion.

    9-Fresh arm. Reports that his Dad didn't let him throw a curve I think is a good thing..... I think. Will focus now on pitching exclusively aswell.

    10-Command and control. The videos and stats I have seen make me believe he will have surprisingly good command and control. Better then some scouts think. I think he will throw strikes, keep the ball down and eventually hit corners.

    11-Good makeup.

    12-Lefty.


    Seven concerns is fewer then I had for Stewart, so not too bad. And a bunch of things to love and like. If only he wasn't 19 this month.Cry

    I still rank Trey Ball comfortably in my top 100 nationally[80's] and 5th on the red sox, behind Barnes and above Owens. I do think he is currently a better prospect then Owens although all 3 starters are very close in my mind.

    However, I will always compare him to Austin Meadows. We will see.




    Fair enough. I think the likes outweigh the dislikes though.

    The late year loss of velocity scouts say was due to tiring down. He sits in the 91-94MPH range regularly. he needs to build up stamina. If he signs quickly, a trip to GCL would be his landing spot, I would think.

    Considering what was left at #7, I thought it was a solid pick. Kids got a lot of upside. I also like the fact that his dad didnt let him snap off curve balls until about 17 yrs old. Let him grow a bit and mature first before putting his elbow through that. Thats probably why his CU grades higher than his curve.

    I liked Meadows too, but there was something about him that was iffy for me at #7. IF Bryant or Moran werent there, I was all for getting more pitching. We'll see how it works out. From all reports, the kid has a solid family and pretty level headed with good mental make up.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Gravelten4's comment:

     

    Not great at all. Missed a chance for a special Bat...a position of farm weakness.

     



    I love it when people mention that they missed out on a special bat, but don't even have a name of the special bat they missed.

     

    There was only one other bat available that you might have wanted to take,



    Meadows. Should be a given if you followed any prospects whatsoever. Condescension and pretentiousness ooze around here.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    this guy has serious white man's disease...slow, uncordinated, and will need ten years to develop and fill out

    Grade F

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jozee76. Show jozee76's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    Trust in Ben! Trust in Ben! Trust in Ben! We'll see, after reading the prospect reports, he seems (If he signs) like a legit 7 pick! Who knew???? Trust in Ben! Trust in Ben!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    I like both picks, also the philosophy of taking the best Talent the Scouts thought was available at the pick. Pitching is huge in MLB.
    Scouts work hard at evaluating Talent, they'll find bats, in fact more Diamonds in the rough in this area.
    Watching his video, he reminds me of a Jon Matlack with his motion. Well welcome to Boston, the work starts now.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    seems like the kid has some advanced secondary stuff (for a highschooler)  Which may mean nothing at all, or it could mean it develops into plus stuff at the MLB level if he moves up that learning curve.

    It's not the pick I wanted....but I'm sure Trey Ball was at least the 7th best player in the draft by every measure done by the Red Sox; he's still a much better talent than we are used to drafting.  In time....I may learn to love. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    Besides Bryant and Moran all the other "bats" in the draft were HS kids which is risky unless your name is Harper. Or some less projectable college kids. The top 2 have a much more advanced approach at the plate. Who knows if Frazier or meadows will hit  MLB offspeed stuff well. I guess they are all a risk, so maybe the word I should use is riskier.

    If we couldnt get Bryant or Moran, I liked them going after one of the top LHP in the draft this year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Besides Bryant and Moran all the other "bats" in the draft were HS kids which is risky unless your name is Harper. Or some less projectable college kids. The top 2 have a much more advanced approach at the plate. Who knows if Frazier or meadows will hit  MLB offspeed stuff well. I guess they are all a risk, so maybe the word I should use is riskier.

    If we couldnt get Bryant or Moran, I liked them going after one of the top LHP in the draft this year.




    There is obvioulys a huge risk with draftin a highschool pitcher...but the top high school players are still less riskier than the ones who fall out of the top ten; generally speaking that is. 

    You can look at the redsox draft history on the Soxprospects website and you can see back in the 90's they took almost all highschool kids and produced very very little major leaguers however the Red Sox seem to be having much better success drafting and developing highschoolers.

    Our farm system has a bunch of top prospects who were all highschoolers right now so hopefully the recent trend holds. The Red Sox director of scouting has been around since the 2010 draft and he's done pheneomanal with indentifying young talent so....we shall see. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this guy has serious white man's disease...slow, uncordinated, and will need ten years to develop and fill out

    Grade F

    As always - 100% correct!

     




     Apparently you know more than all the scouts and professionalsUndecided. Stick to grading your students and leave the baseball to the guys who actually have a clue.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this guy has serious white man's disease...slow, uncordinated, and will need ten years to develop and fill out

    Grade F

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Shows you know nothing about him... it has been said that he is one of the most athletic kids in this draft... did you know he plays two positions? I think not.... look I wasnt crazy about this pick because I think the Sox need a bat but dont make up lies to suit your opinions.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    this jellybean will be about as good as a fielder as Jonny Gomes....and his fastball tops out at 94? by the time he reaches the majors in 6 years he will be lucky to be throwing 90...and this was the 7th overall pick? was Ben drinking?

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this jellybean will be about as good as a fielder as Jonny Gomes....and his fastball tops out at 94? by the time he reaches the majors in 6 years he will be lucky to be throwing 90...and this was the 7th overall pick? was Ben drinking?

    As always - 100% correct!

     




    thats it, keep making a fool of yourself. Youve taken it to a whole new level this year. Congrats.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this jellybean will be about as good as a fielder as Jonny Gomes....and his fastball tops out at 94? by the time he reaches the majors in 6 years he will be lucky to be throwing 90...and this was the 7th overall pick? was Ben drinking?

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    He's a HIGHSCHOOLER? every scout in the country expects him to add sitting velocity as he fills out.  If he was a college senior you might have more of a point.  But 18 Year olds don't lose velocity...all things considered expect his MLB fastball to be more than what it is now. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    this jellybean will be about as good as a fielder as Jonny Gomes....and his fastball tops out at 94? by the time he reaches the majors in 6 years he will be lucky to be throwing 90...and this was the 7th overall pick? was Ben drinking?

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    He's a HIGHSCHOOLER? every scout in the country expects him to add sitting velocity as he fills out.  If he was a college senior you might have more of a point.  But 18 Year olds don't lose velocity...all things considered expect his MLB fastball to be more than what it is now. 

     



    your fastball is already on the decline before most sox prospects make it out of AAA

    (24)

    the idea that you can strengthen your arm after that is folly...its all downhill for the most part

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pitcher-aging-curves-starters-and-relievers/

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Red Sox select Trey Ball Thoughts?

    find one scouting report that doesn't project Trey Ball to add sitting Velocity?!?!?!?

     
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