Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to redsoxandguitars' comment:

    If the market is 2 years, no, but a one year market rate with a 2nd year option/player opt out is obvious for the 2014 Red Sox. I expect that should close the deal and cost little more than what Napoli cost in 2013. Beltran has the two year work record to show he's worth a one year contract risk in hopes of getting another 140 plus games season. 

    LF would be a perfect place to put him, at home, with a move to RF in ballparks with vast LF and shorter porch RF like Yankee stadium. 

    With Shane and Bradley, Ellsbury is surely and thankfully gone for 2014, and the 100M plus that some foolishly advocate spending to retain him, should be laughed at in favor of promoting Bradley to CF and improving the slugging in the OF with a one year commitment to Beltran that could end up being a good value and fit for one or a team option 2nd year. 

    Napoli should not be resigned, and if Kendrys Morales cost more than 3 or 4 years and 40 to 50M, Nava should platoon at 1st base and be OF depth with a cheap one year lower single digits deal on Konerko. 

    Carp should be traded on what amounts to a one-time lottery windfall highest he'll ever have in trade value.

    LF Beltran/Gomes/Nava

    CF Bradley/Shane/Nava

    RF Shane/Beltran/Nava

    CF Bradley

    1B Nava/Konerko

    2B Pedroia

    SS Bogaerts

    3B Middlebrooks (His HR rate matters folks, in what has been an injury year)

    C Ross & AJ (AJ and one year makes more sense than 3 years of Salty costs, with Swihart, Lavarnway and Vazquex insuring no need to do absurdly stupid things like guarantee 70 million plus to McCann and 30 million plus to hands of stone and arm of paper Salty) 

    Payroll budget increased by 20 million plus, net 1 to 2 draft picks.

    Beltran will be a draft pick charge, but that's offset by the draft picks picked up for Ellsbury and Napoli and let's hope and pray on S. Drew. 

    Red Sox should try and get a team to take the debt of Peavy off the 2014 books, which would increase the budget more to provide necessary flexibility over this winter and next summer. 



    That's alot of downgrade you know?  Just to save some yrs and money, you can't just downgrade a World Chapion team.  

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to redsoxandguitars' comment:

    It's an upgrade. Beltran is an upgrade over Ellsbury. 

    Bogaerts is an upgrade over Drew.

    Konerko (.900 plus OPS vs. LP) and Nava (.800 plus OPS v RP) is an upgrade over Napoli

    Ross & AJ (14 HR v RP) is equal to or an ugrade over Ross & Salty (AJ has better hands and better arm)

     




     

    So the plan here is to convince Konerko not to retire to take a part time gig, and to fill the team with players 37 and older?

     

    Why use Bogaerts at SS?  I think Omar Vizquel is still available and fits your profile much better.  Maybe Pedro can come back and pitch?  Or better yet, Luis Tiant (so he can add to that Near Miss HOF resume)...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.



    Beltran is said to be looking for a 3 or 4 year deal & with the amount of money that is available out there, he may very well get it.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.



    Beltran is said to be looking for a 3 or 4 year deal & with the amount of money that is available out there, he may very well get it.  




    Also not high on giving a first round pick up on an old guy for 3-4 years. He only produced 2 WAR this year. He is on the down swing as a player. Three to four years is crazy.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.



    Beltran is said to be looking for a 3 or 4 year deal & with the amount of money that is available out there, he may very well get it.  




    Also not high on giving a first round pick up on an old guy for 3-4 years. He only produced 2 WAR this year. He is on the down swing as a player. Three to four years is crazy.



    3 or 4 years is insane to me..he would be 42 of 43 years old? i would rather resign ortiz to be our DH....beltran in the OF at that age is silly...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.



    Beltran is said to be looking for a 3 or 4 year deal & with the amount of money that is available out there, he may very well get it.  




    Also not high on giving a first round pick up on an old guy for 3-4 years. He only produced 2 WAR this year. He is on the down swing as a player. Three to four years is crazy.



    3 or 4 years is insane to me..he would be 42 of 43 years old? i would rather resign ortiz to be our DH....beltran in the OF at that age is silly...




    Beltran was born in Aoril, 1977.  a three year deal would take him through ages 37, 38 and 39...

     

    I pass on Beltran, and I think the Sox do, too.  They would not give up a second round pick last year, so they are less likely to squander a first rounder on a player already beyond his mid-30s.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to raider3524's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I don't like the idea of giving up potentially the 20th pick in the draft for 1 year of Beltran. Pass.



    Beltran is said to be looking for a 3 or 4 year deal & with the amount of money that is available out there, he may very well get it.  




    Also not high on giving a first round pick up on an old guy for 3-4 years. He only produced 2 WAR this year. He is on the down swing as a player. Three to four years is crazy.



    3 or 4 years is insane to me..he would be 42 of 43 years old? i would rather resign ortiz to be our DH....beltran in the OF at that age is silly...




    Beltran was born in Aoril, 1977.  a three year deal would take him through ages 37, 38 and 39...

     

    I pass on Beltran, and I think the Sox do, too.  They would not give up a second round pick last year, so they are less likely to squander a first rounder on a player already beyond his mid-30s.



    ok thanks..i was thinking he was 39 already....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    notin, you gave us a nice run down on some low cost guys. Now, tell us the best "value" non QO players out there that can play a decent CF, C, SS and 1B.

    Thanks.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)


    SS there is nothing.  Drew and utility players.  If you want a good field / no hit SS, Clint Barmes is a short term solution.  And, of course, Brendan Ryan also fits that bill.

     

    1B is weak, and Napoli is far and away the bet option.  Really the top non-QO free agent is James Loney.  Frankly, might as well go with Jeff Baker and save even more money at that point.  (Baker does KILL LHP, but there is no solid lefty platoon option this year in FA).

     

    C-  I like trade cndidates Nick Hundley and Ryan Hanigan.  In free agency, Kurt Suzuki would be the onlu non-QO guy I would talk to.

     

    CF has Franklin Gutierrez, but really he is a major injury risk.  He makes Ryan Kalish look like Cal Ripken.   Rajai Davis is more of a 4th OF, but certainly has some appealing skills.  Amd the sneaky name in there is Jeff Francoeur.  Not that I like him as a player, but The King of First Impressions does have a habit of making his first season with a new club stand out.  If there was EVER a player you did not give a multi-year deal to, however, it is Jeff Francoeur.   Not sure he could handle CF, but he could take RF with Victorino moving over.  Nate McLouth is also an under-the-radar option, but there are reasons to be concerned there, too.  I take Davis over McLouth, all things considered...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)


    More pathetic ignorace from Salty.

    He wants to make the team older and less talented. It is typical of him. Don't pay the market rate for players or give them the years they want, assume rookies will be better than veterans and be as CHEAP as possible.

    You'd think he was the owner of a small-market club and not a 'fan' of one with deep pockets. Oh yeah, he HATES this team and was wrong about EVERYTHING this year in his vile attempts to smear the GM, manager, HOF DH and multiple classy veterans who helped win the Word Series,

    Beltran will get 3 years 45 million or 2 years 34 million from someone.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)


    The Sox would likely want to pay Napoli the 2/34 or 3/45 Beltran would accept but Naps is thinking more like 4/70 which is too rich for my taste.

    If we lose Napoli:

    - I am fine with Beltran as a corner OFer for 2/34 or 3/45.

    - Sign Morneau to play 1B (Konerko idea idiotic). He has a .375 avg in his last 48 AB's in Fenway ('11-'13 stats) and crushes the ball here.

    - Sign Youkilis to a 1 year vet min contract with some incentives, if he passes a physical and is currently in great shape. His decline began after the 2010 season but these past 3 years he still had a .383 OBP and .860 OPS vs. lefties. He can spell both Papi and Morneau.

    - Keep Drew (like Farrell wants). Once Stephen finds few suitors willing to give up a first rd pick for him he will accept a deal closer to what he is worth. No 4/40 nonsence but 3/27 or 4/32 would be nice.

    - Sign Willie Bloomquist to utility role. .314/.365/.763 the last 3 years vs. lefties. Drew can't hit lefties. So there is your platoon. Great teammate, solid defender of all 3 infield positions.

    - Trade Middlebrooks, Nava and Dempster for a legit young OF talent since we will need someone to replace Beltran and Shane in 2 years. A can't miss guy who can be in AA this year, AAA in '15,  (when JBJ replaces Gomes and starts vs. all lefties) and then be up in 2015 as an instant success starter alongside Bradley.

    - I am ok with Pierzynski at 2/18 or something like that as long as management and veteran players sign off on a guy who is notorious for rubbing people the wrong way. Vazquez at AAA is almost ready. But I would prefer McCann at 5/75 to catch for 2 years and then DH when Papi retires, but not at any more cash than that.

    - Restructure Lackey's deal (4 yrs 36 million at like 11-9-9-7 instead of 15.3-700k) and we could afford to get both Naps or Beltran at around 17 AND McCann (in my opinion)

    - Keep JBJ at AAA for one more season. He did NOT look ready. Trade for a CF option. One idea would be Peavy to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier. He is one of Pedroia's best friends from ASU, can play all 3 OF spots and despite being over paid the Dodgers are rumored to pay up to 25 million of the 71 he has left. Subtract 14m of Peavy and they have them pay 4m a year of his '15-'17 years and we basically have given him the 3/39 Victorino contract. He would be a .290/.360 guy here with HR's in the teens.

    - Sign Tim Hudson to compete with multiple young players for the 5th starter spot. If we sign Beltran and McCann and draft pick compensation is no longer a big deal, maybe sign Kuroda to a 1/10 type deal if we lose out on Hudson.

    RF - Victorino

    CF - Ethier

    2B - Pedroia

    DH - Ortiz

    LF - Beltran

    1B - Morneau/Youk

    C - McCann (or A.J. and bump Bogey up a spot)

    3B - Xander

    SS - Drew/Bloomquist

    Bench: Ross and Gomes

    Lester

    Lackey

    Buchholz

    Doubront

    Hudson/Kuroda

    Bullpen as is, with more expected of Workman, Miller back and either Bailey offered arb or a similar 8th-9th inning type signed as Koji insurance.

     

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to notin's comment:


    SS there is nothing.  Drew and utility players.  If you want a good field / no hit SS, Clint Barmes is a short term solution.  And, of course, Brendan Ryan also fits that bill.

     

    1B is weak, and Napoli is far and away the bet option.  Really the top non-QO free agent is James Loney.  Frankly, might as well go with Jeff Baker and save even more money at that point.  (Baker does KILL LHP, but there is no solid lefty platoon option this year in FA).

     

    C-  I like trade cndidates Nick Hundley and Ryan Hanigan.  In free agency, Kurt Suzuki would be the onlu non-QO guy I would talk to.

     

    CF has Franklin Gutierrez, but really he is a major injury risk.  He makes Ryan Kalish look like Cal Ripken.   Rajai Davis is more of a 4th OF, but certainly has some appealing skills.  Amd the sneaky name in there is Jeff Francoeur.  Not that I like him as a player, but The King of First Impressions does have a habit of making his first season with a new club stand out.  If there was EVER a player you did not give a multi-year deal to, however, it is Jeff Francoeur.   Not sure he could handle CF, but he could take RF with Victorino moving over.  Nate McLouth is also an under-the-radar option, but there are reasons to be concerned there, too.  I take Davis over McLouth, all things considered...



    So, basically not much out there a notch below the QO guys at positions we need.

    Hannigan could be a fit, and I'm always OK with obtaining a great glove at SS.

    A JBJ/Davis CF might do fine.

    Baker/Carp at 1B?

    Interesting.

    Thanks.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    Softy you were horribly wrong about this year's team so your views on buliding a good team next year have been apprpriately discounted to what they are - rampant speculation. 

    Please tell us again how great and intimidating the Detroit Tigers are. Thanks.

    Beltran is a good replacement for Ellsbury but he is not sitting around letting you give him a cheapo offer. Wake up. As long as the deal does not exceed two years, you are good. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to redsoxandguitars' comment:

    If the market is 2 years, no, but a one year market rate with a 2nd year option/player opt out is obvious for the 2014 Red Sox. I expect that should close the deal and cost little more than what Napoli cost in 2013. Beltran has the two year work record to show he's worth a one year contract risk in hopes of getting another 140 plus games season. 

    LF would be a perfect place to put him, at home, with a move to RF in ballparks with vast LF and shorter porch RF like Yankee stadium. 

    With Shane and Bradley, Ellsbury is surely and thankfully gone for 2014, and the 100M plus that some foolishly advocate spending to retain him, should be laughed at in favor of promoting Bradley to CF and improving the slugging in the OF with a one year commitment to Beltran that could end up being a good value and fit for one or a team option 2nd year. 

    Napoli should not be resigned, and if Kendrys Morales cost more than 3 or 4 years and 40 to 50M, Nava should platoon at 1st base and be OF depth with a cheap one year lower single digits deal on Konerko. 

    Carp should be traded on what amounts to a one-time lottery windfall highest he'll ever have in trade value.

    LF Beltran/Gomes/Nava

    CF Bradley/Shane/Nava

    RF Shane/Beltran/Nava

    CF Bradley

    1B Nava/Konerko

    2B Pedroia

    SS Bogaerts

    3B Middlebrooks (His HR rate matters folks, in what has been an injury year)

    C Ross & AJ (AJ and one year makes more sense than 3 years of Salty costs, with Swihart, Lavarnway and Vazquex insuring no need to do absurdly stupid things like guarantee 70 million plus to McCann and 30 million plus to hands of stone and arm of paper Salty) 

    Payroll budget increased by 20 million plus, net 1 to 2 draft picks.

    Beltran will be a draft pick charge, but that's offset by the draft picks picked up for Ellsbury and Napoli and let's hope and pray on S. Drew. 

    Red Sox should try and get a team to take the debt of Peavy off the 2014 books, which would increase the budget more to provide necessary flexibility over this winter and next summer. 



    I knew it was you as soon as I saw that someone didn't spell "budget" correctly iin the thread title.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportswizard1. Show Sportswizard1's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    Carlos may sign here, but it won't be for 2 years as he's seeking a 3 year deal minimum. That might be one year to long. However if the final year is for chump change no biggie.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to notin's comment:


    SS there is nothing.  Drew and utility players.  If you want a good field / no hit SS, Clint Barmes is a short term solution.  And, of course, Brendan Ryan also fits that bill.

     

    1B is weak, and Napoli is far and away the bet option.  Really the top non-QO free agent is James Loney.  Frankly, might as well go with Jeff Baker and save even more money at that point.  (Baker does KILL LHP, but there is no solid lefty platoon option this year in FA).

     

    C-  I like trade cndidates Nick Hundley and Ryan Hanigan.  In free agency, Kurt Suzuki would be the onlu non-QO guy I would talk to.

     

    CF has Franklin Gutierrez, but really he is a major injury risk.  He makes Ryan Kalish look like Cal Ripken.   Rajai Davis is more of a 4th OF, but certainly has some appealing skills.  Amd the sneaky name in there is Jeff Francoeur.  Not that I like him as a player, but The King of First Impressions does have a habit of making his first season with a new club stand out.  If there was EVER a player you did not give a multi-year deal to, however, it is Jeff Francoeur.   Not sure he could handle CF, but he could take RF with Victorino moving over.  Nate McLouth is also an under-the-radar option, but there are reasons to be concerned there, too.  I take Davis over McLouth, all things considered...



    Baker and Nava to man first if Napoli prices himself out? Nava's 3 year splits vs. righties are a .303/.401 line with an .861 OPS and 13 of his 18 pro HR's.

    Baker hardly 'kills' lefties though. A .287/.342 line and an .838 OPS with 16 HR in 355 AB's the last 3 years. That is nice and good, and VERY useful for a platoon, but it is not VMart hitting .400 in 155 AB's vs. lefties here in 2010 with a 1.173 OPS and 12 HR's. Now THAT was killing it:-)

    Baker has done exactly the same thing Youk did last 3 years in 287 AB's. .268/.383 and a.860 OPS with 14 HR's. I'd argue Youk was better. Might as well platoon the guy we know and (many) love. What about former MVP Justin Morneau and his .375 avg in 48 AB's at Fenway the past 3 season to be a decent 1B free agent? He was given the QO right?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    Has one of Softy's proposed acquisitions for the Sox, at his proposed price, ever happened?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to redsoxandguitars' comment:

    If the market is 2 years, no, but a one year market rate with a 2nd year option/player opt out is obvious for the 2014 Red Sox. I expect that should close the deal and cost little more than what Napoli cost in 2013. Beltran has the two year work record to show he's worth a one year contract risk in hopes of getting another 140 plus games season. 

    LF would be a perfect place to put him, at home, with a move to RF in ballparks with vast LF and shorter porch RF like Yankee stadium. 

    With Shane and Bradley, Ellsbury is surely and thankfully gone for 2014, and the 100M plus that some foolishly advocate spending to retain him, should be laughed at in favor of promoting Bradley to CF and improving the slugging in the OF with a one year commitment to Beltran that could end up being a good value and fit for one or a team option 2nd year. 

    Napoli should not be resigned, and if Kendrys Morales cost more than 3 or 4 years and 40 to 50M, Nava should platoon at 1st base and be OF depth with a cheap one year lower single digits deal on Konerko. 

    Carp should be traded on what amounts to a one-time lottery windfall highest he'll ever have in trade value.

    LF Beltran/Gomes/Nava

    CF Bradley/Shane/Nava

    RF Shane/Beltran/Nava

    CF Bradley

    1B Nava/Konerko

    2B Pedroia

    SS Bogaerts

    3B Middlebrooks (His HR rate matters folks, in what has been an injury year)

    C Ross & AJ (AJ and one year makes more sense than 3 years of Salty costs, with Swihart, Lavarnway and Vazquex insuring no need to do absurdly stupid things like guarantee 70 million plus to McCann and 30 million plus to hands of stone and arm of paper Salty) 

    Payroll budget increased by 20 million plus, net 1 to 2 draft picks.

    Beltran will be a draft pick charge, but that's offset by the draft picks picked up for Ellsbury and Napoli and let's hope and pray on S. Drew. 

    Red Sox should try and get a team to take the debt of Peavy off the 2014 books, which would increase the budget more to provide necessary flexibility over this winter and next summer. 



    Why all the hate for Carp? All he did was bat .290+, 20XBH, 40+RBI, 9Hrs, scored 30+ runs, in just 80+ games, all while getting paid league minimum. ? Oh, and learned a new position out of ST...? 

    What? You just don't like the guy i take it? 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to emp9's comment:

    Why all the hate for Carp? All he did was bat .290+, 20XBH, 40+RBI, 9Hrs, scored 30+ runs, in just 80+ games, all while getting paid league minimum. ? Oh, and learned a new position out of ST...? 

    What? You just don't like the guy i take it? 

    What new position did Mike Carp learn out of Spring Training?

    Carp came up through the minors as a firstbaseman but was Seattle's Opening Day leftfielder in 2012, when Carp played 24 games in leftfield and 23 games at firstbase. For his MLB career, Carp has 111 games at firstbase and 96 games in the outfield.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carpmi01.shtml

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Should Buget One Year Market Rate To Acquire Beltran (No on 2 guaranteed market rate years)

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Has one of Softy's proposed acquisitions for the Sox, at his proposed price, ever happened?



    No and they never will given his horribly outdated "market ptices"

     
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