RED SOX vs Pats

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    RED SOX vs Pats

    It seems that the RS FO has taken a page out of the Pats FO playbook. They went after smart hardworking baseball players this year. Much like the Pats do year after year. When you look at the players they got they are not super stars. They are for the most part players I could see as coaches at some point in time. They are also guys that have not had major ups and downs in their careers. What you have seen them do in the pasty is what you always seem to get from them. Nothing super fancy just hard work day in and day out.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    It seems that the RS FO has taken a page out of the Pats FO playbook. They went after smart hardworking baseball players this year. Much like the Pats do year after year. When you look at the players they got they are not super stars. They are for the most part players I could see as coaches at some point in time. They are also guys that have not had major ups and downs in their careers. What you have seen them do in the pasty is what you always seem to get from them. Nothing super fancy just hard work day in and day out.



    Right you are JIm. and both teams are hated.......why? because they win.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    Disagree on all counts.

    First of all, back in the Patriots hayday, they did have stars.  And I'm sick of hearing the nonsense that they didnt.  Willy McGinist was one of the best pass rushing DE's of his time.  He could play OLB or DE, but his combination of speed/skill made him a unique talent.

    Rodney Harrison was one of the smartest players on the field.  As a Safety (the Defenses last line of defense) this is extremely important.

    Ty Law was a ball-hawk and played his best games when it counted. 

    Wilfork is awesome and worth of a massive contract.  Samuel gave us great years.  Seymour was one of the best run stuffing DE in the game.  Bruschi and Vrabel were great linebackers solidifying the middle of the D.

    Corey DIllon was super talented, and carried us to a super bowl.  Brady is one of the best ever.

    The whole, "Patriots were great because they didnt go after stars, but rather played like a team" is such a myth.  Just because there players didnt get a ton of media attention does not mean that they werent unique talents.

    Too much credit goes to the "Patriot philosophy" and not enough credit goes to the actual players.  If the Patriots philosophy was the reason they were so good, then how come the team hasn't been able to duplicate the success since most of the key players left.

    Sorry Jim, nothing against you, I just hate this myth.  Bellicheck is way too arrogant these days.  Thinking he can trade down and turn players into stars.  You cant teach talent.  And the Patriots havent had nearly as much talent as they did since they won all of those superbowls.

    Sports more often than not come down to who has the most talent.  Its the best players that bring home the glory, not the nicest guys.  Even Cherrington has disputed this myth.  When asked point blank, he said, "personality is something we will consider, but we are trying to build a winning baseball team....Not a fraternity.  Our focus, primarily, was on talent."

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    Also: the patriots dont even go for humble players anymore.  Ocho-cinco, Albert Haynesworth, Moss.

    And dont give me that bull about thats why they dont win anymore.  Because its not true.  Their reign of championships ended when they got arragant and thought that the Patriot philosophy was the reason why they were so successful.  The reason they stopped being successful was because Bruschi left, Vrabel got old, Seymour was traded, Ty Law left, Harrison retired, McGinest left.

    It was the players Jim....Its almost always the players.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    With all due respect to the OP, Im with Drew on this one.

    That pats havent won the big one since they went with that philosiphy. They had star players at important positions when they won 3SB and when they refused to pay those impoortant impact players and decided to go with 2nd teir talent, weve seen the results.

    When they go after a legit talent or trade/sign a couple, they will win it all again.

    I love the Pats, but you gotta pay at certain positions to get the talent. They seem to forget that when it comes to defense.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    With all due respect to the OP, Im with Drew on this one.

    That pats havent won the big one since they went with that philosiphy. They had star players at important positions when they won 3SB and when they refused to pay those impoortant impact players and decided to go with 2nd teir talent, weve seen the results.

    When they go after a legit talent or trade/sign a couple, they will win it all again.

    I love the Pats, but you gotta pay at certain positions to get the talent. They seem to forget that when it comes to defense.



    Well said.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    With the exception of Harrison and Dillon all the other guys were DRAFT picks. Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, I consider Vrabel a smart player not great player pick up who was used to maximize his abilities.

    The Pats in FA have gone after smart and good not great players most of the time. The supposed GREAT players they did get were not what was hyped with the exceptions as you noted.

    The RS have kept thier draft picks and are grooming them. Unlike football Baseball can do that. 

    The guys the RS picked up are smart and good not great players with whom you know exactly what you are going to get year in and year out.

    I stand by the fact that good hardworking players that both the Pats have and now RS have signed are the reasons why they are better and winning  teams.

    BTW the reason the Pats have not won the SB is not because of lack of players but IMHO due to two very lucky plays by the NYG. Just my opionion

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

    Patriot drafts are train wrecks.



    Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, Milloy, etc... train wrecks?

    Yeah like alll teams some don't work out and the Pats are no different from many teams in that respect.

    BTW try backing up your comments.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    With the exception of Harrison and Dillon all the other guys were DRAFT picks. Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, I consider Vrabel a smart player not great player pick up who was used to maximize his abilities.

    The Pats in FA have gone after smart and good not great players most of the time. The supposed GREAT players they did get were not what was hyped with the exceptions as you noted.

    The RS have kept thier draft picks and are grooming them. Unlike football Baseball can do that. 

    The guys the RS picked up are smart and good not great players with whom you know exactly what you are going to get year in and year out.

    I stand by the fact that good hardworking players that both the Pats have and now RS have signed are the reasons why they are better and winning  teams.

    BTW the reason the Pats have not won the SB is not because of lack of players but IMHO due to two very lucky plays by the NYG. Just my opionion



    Agree overall. I'd add that if Gronk was healthy that would have helped too along with Welker catching that pass.

    To put down the Pats like Drewski did for making it sound like they've gone off the track since winning their third Super Bowl is a bit unfair because they've remained an elite team year after year and have been to two Super Bowls since then.

    I do agree with Drewski about the myth that the Pats won w/o stars. That bothered me when that was talked about during the first Super Bowl win. Players he mentioned were stars back then. Of course, it's the players that win.

    However, I think it's weak when fans use the "Belichick is too arrogant and that's why they haven't won anymore Super Bowls" line. So what is Belichick supposed to do. Run things the way fans think he should or how others do things. That's ridiculous. He has the way he wants to do things and is confident in what he does. Right or wrong, that's how you have to run things. Being confident in how you do things isn't arrogant. Never quite understood that.

    It wasn't Belichick who says the Patriots win because of the "Patriot Way." It's the brain-dead sychophants who say that. Belichick doesn't run things any different now than at the beginning of his tenure. He always traded around to amass draft picks but he also went after impact players in the draft when he's had high picks -- Seymour, Mayo. He always took chances with troubled stars -- Dillon, Moss, Haynesworth, Ochocinco. Sometimes they worked out, sometimes they didn't.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

     

    Patriot drafts are train wrecks.

     



    Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, Milloy, etc... train wrecks?

     

    Yeah like alll teams some don't work out and the Pats are no different from many teams in that respect.

    BTW try backing up your comments.



    Jim, it's people like him who think a team should hit on every draft. Belichick hit a rut of about two or three drafts where he missed big time, which happens to every team, but has rebounded with strong drafts in recent years. I guess Conan missed on how good Ridley, Gronk, Hernandez, Vereen, Jones, etc. have been.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    Tom Brady = 199th overall pick in the 6th round.   Who would have thought?!?   Cool

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    Disagree on all counts.

    First of all, back in the Patriots hayday, they did have stars.  And I'm sick of hearing the nonsense that they didnt.  Willy McGinist was one of the best pass rushing DE's of his time.  He could play OLB or DE, but his combination of speed/skill made him a unique talent.

    Rodney Harrison was one of the smartest players on the field.  As a Safety (the Defenses last line of defense) this is extremely important.

    Ty Law was a ball-hawk and played his best games when it counted. 

    Wilfork is awesome and worth of a massive contract.  Samuel gave us great years.  Seymour was one of the best run stuffing DE in the game.  Bruschi and Vrabel were great linebackers solidifying the middle of the D.

    Corey DIllon was super talented, and carried us to a super bowl.  Brady is one of the best ever.

    The whole, "Patriots were great because they didnt go after stars, but rather played like a team" is such a myth.  Just because there players didnt get a ton of media attention does not mean that they werent unique talents.

    Too much credit goes to the "Patriot philosophy" and not enough credit goes to the actual players.  If the Patriots philosophy was the reason they were so good, then how come the team hasn't been able to duplicate the success since most of the key players left.

    Sorry Jim, nothing against you, I just hate this myth.  Bellicheck is way too arrogant these days.  Thinking he can trade down and turn players into stars.  You cant teach talent.  And the Patriots havent had nearly as much talent as they did since they won all of those superbowls.

    Sports more often than not come down to who has the most talent.  Its the best players that bring home the glory, not the nicest guys.  Even Cherrington has disputed this myth.  When asked point blank, he said, "personality is something we will consider, but we are trying to build a winning baseball team....Not a fraternity.  Our focus, primarily, was on talent."

     

     




     

    Miracle - 1980 USA Hockey team best example of team v talent...Ben C cant say the guys he got were not the most talented...is he supposed to admit to that? his free agent choices say all that needs to be said about removing the stench of beckett from the team

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    With the exception of Harrison and Dillon all the other guys were DRAFT picks. Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, I consider Vrabel a smart player not great player pick up who was used to maximize his abilities.

    The Pats in FA have gone after smart and good not great players most of the time. The supposed GREAT players they did get were not what was hyped with the exceptions as you noted.

    The RS have kept thier draft picks and are grooming them. Unlike football Baseball can do that. 

    The guys the RS picked up are smart and good not great players with whom you know exactly what you are going to get year in and year out.

    I stand by the fact that good hardworking players that both the Pats have and now RS have signed are the reasons why they are better and winning  teams.

    BTW the reason the Pats have not won the SB is not because of lack of players but IMHO due to two very lucky plays by the NYG. Just my opionion

     



    Agree overall. I'd add that if Gronk was healthy that would have helped too along with Welker catching that pass.

     

    To put down the Pats like Drewski did for making it sound like they've gone off the track since winning their third Super Bowl is a bit unfair because they've remained an elite team year after year and have been to two Super Bowls since then.

    I do agree with Drewski about the myth that the Pats won w/o stars. That bothered me when that was talked about during the first Super Bowl win. Players he mentioned were stars back then. Of course, it's the players that win.

    However, I think it's weak when fans use the "Belichick is too arrogant and that's why they haven't won anymore Super Bowls" line. So what is Belichick supposed to do. Run things the way fans think he should or how others do things. That's ridiculous. He has the way he wants to do things and is confident in what he does. Right or wrong, that's how you have to run things. Being confident in how you do things isn't arrogant. Never quite understood that.

    It wasn't Belichick who says the Patriots win because of the "Patriot Way." It's the brain-dead sychophants who say that. Belichick doesn't run things any different now than at the beginning of his tenure. He always traded around to amass draft picks but he also went after impact players in the draft when he's had high picks -- Seymour, Mayo. He always took chances with troubled stars -- Dillon, Moss, Haynesworth, Ochocinco. Sometimes they worked out, sometimes they didn't.

     




    Its not about coaching, its about GMing.  Since Piolli left whoever occupies our GM seat is nothing more than a yes man.  Bill is the real GM.  And Im sick of being under talented at D and under the cap.  For goodness sake, spend some money!  How many years now have we been weak in the secondary?  Weak in the pass rush?

    I have no issues w Bills coaching.  I have an issue w him always trading down (except for this year, this year it made sense to), never going after expensive free agents, never making trades.  He dumpster dives for free agents, never picks in the first round.

    To think that you can build a championship calibur team based on fourth round draft picks and retreads is arrogant.  Again, nothing to do w his coaching, everything to do w his GM skills.

    And the reason why we remain elite even though he fails every year to bring in top level talent wears #12. 

    How many dollars are we under the cap right now?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    With the exception of Harrison and Dillon all the other guys were DRAFT picks. Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, I consider Vrabel a smart player not great player pick up who was used to maximize his abilities.

    The Pats in FA have gone after smart and good not great players most of the time. The supposed GREAT players they did get were not what was hyped with the exceptions as you noted.

    The RS have kept thier draft picks and are grooming them. Unlike football Baseball can do that. 

    The guys the RS picked up are smart and good not great players with whom you know exactly what you are going to get year in and year out.

    I stand by the fact that good hardworking players that both the Pats have and now RS have signed are the reasons why they are better and winning  teams.

    BTW the reason the Pats have not won the SB is not because of lack of players but IMHO due to two very lucky plays by the NYG. Just my opionion




    You did not specify method of acquisition.  You just implied that the Patriots go after good not great players and that is why they are successful.  What the Patriots have done regarding talent acquisition, with a few exceptions, has not worked recently.  Trading out of the first round to get a second rounder, then taking Ron Brace.  Or Vollmer.  Or Merriweather.  Or Chung.  Or Butler.  Stop value shopping and spend some money!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

     

    Patriot drafts are train wrecks.

     



    Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, Milloy, etc... train wrecks?

     

    Yeah like alll teams some don't work out and the Pats are no different from many teams in that respect.

    BTW try backing up your comments.




    You are going back 5-10 years.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    In response to ConanObrien's comment:

     

    Patriot drafts are train wrecks.

     



    Wilfolk, Samuels, Willie, Law, Seymour Bruschi, Milloy, etc... train wrecks?

     

    Yeah like alll teams some don't work out and the Pats are no different from many teams in that respect.

    BTW try backing up your comments.

     



    Jim, it's people like him who think a team should hit on every draft. Belichick hit a rut of about two or three drafts where he missed big time, which happens to every team, but has rebounded with strong drafts in recent years. I guess Conan missed on how good Ridley, Gronk, Hernandez, Vereen, Jones, etc. have been.

     



    Fair, I'd just like to see more of a balance.  Some elite talent and some hardworking late round finds.  While its true that you can find gems in teh third and fourth rounds, first rounders have a higher hit rate.  Just because you can find guys in teh third doesnt mean you should just trade your firsts.  Bellicheck hasnt been great with the firsts.  Whether its trading out of the first when he could have had a great CB with the pick or getting too cute (we want McCarthy with our first because he can play special teams).  For once, get a top talent CB.  We have the money.  Trade up if you have too. 

    ANd letting Ty Law walk was a terrible mistake.  Pay your stars.  Dont be afraid to draft in teh first round.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    It seems that the RS FO has taken a page out of the Pats FO playbook. They went after smart hardworking baseball players this year. Much like the Pats do year after year. When you look at the players they got they are not super stars. They are for the most part players I could see as coaches at some point in time. They are also guys that have not had major ups and downs in their careers. What you have seen them do in the pasty is what you always seem to get from them. Nothing super fancy just hard work day in and day out.

     




    Agree. The Bruins did the same thing.  We'll see how Ainge gets creative to not botch the transition from the old guard into a new cast.

     

    Belichick is a master.




    Chiarelli is a master, no arguements on that.  Every year at the deadline he just nails it.  Seidenberg for a second?  Redden this year.  Kelly was a deadline grab. 

    Chara was a big dollar free agent and man has he been worth it.  Peter Chiarelli is the best GM out of any Boston teams.  Dude is a genious.  Harvard grad, former lawyer.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: RED SOX vs Pats

    The Superbowl MVP award should be named, "The Tom Brady Award".   Cool

     

     
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