Reddick-Bailey

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

    I really don't think this should be a debate comparing Bailey and Reddick. At the time of the trade, both teams were getting things they needed. Sox needed a closer, and the A's needed outfield help. The big comparison here should be between the outfielders that were options for the trade...Reddick vs Kalish. The Sox thought that Kalish was going to be a bigger contributor...so far he's just been injured.




    I don't remember who exactly we had in our OF at the time (and I am too lazy to look it up), but I remember that there simply was no room for Reddick to be an everyday OF here. We traded him for a closer with stats very similar to Papelbon at the time.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    I sort of assumed the point of this thread was not that Reddick was bad, but that Bailey was much better than the injured/recovering pitcher we saw last season.   And Bailey certainly has a track record to prove it.

     

    And the fact that he is not closing does not diminish his usefulness...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to notin's comment:

    I sort of assumed the point of this thread was not that Reddick was bad, but that Bailey was much better than the injured/recovering pitcher we saw last season.   And Bailey certainly has a track record to prove it.

     

    And the fact that he is not closing does not diminish his usefulness...




    Reddick isn't bad.

    I got tired last year of everyone saying Bailey was horrible and quite a few acting like Reddick is grear.

    They are both good players and over time we can see how it plays out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:
    Andrew Bailey's 38 pitches over 2.1 innings this season must be convincing.

    So I take it you'd rather have Reddick than Bailey? And I think the OP might have been including Bailey's body of work in Oakland. Just a guess.



    Too early to make an assessment.

    I hope Andrew Bailey and Josh Reddick have successful seasons.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:
    Andrew Bailey's 38 pitches over 2.1 innings this season must be convincing.

     

    So I take it you'd rather have Reddick than Bailey? And I think the OP might have been including Bailey's body of work in Oakland. Just a guess.



    Too early to make an assessment.

     

    I hope Andrew Bailey and Josh Reddick have successful seasons.



    So you did know that Bailey has pitched more than 2 innings in his career? I couldn't tell from your first post.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    I sort of assumed the point of this thread was not that Reddick was bad, but that Bailey was much better than the injured/recovering pitcher we saw last season.   And Bailey certainly has a track record to prove it.

     

    And the fact that he is not closing does not diminish his usefulness...

     




     

    Reddick isn't bad.

    I got tired last year of everyone saying Bailey was horrible and quite a few acting like Reddick is grear.

    They are both good players and over time we can see how it plays out.




    Someone should start a thread looking for Alibiike. He seems to have disappeared now that Bailey is pitching well.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Of course Bailey got those all star appearances as a closer in the weak AL West.

     



    Yeah, the same weak division Josh hit many of his HRs against.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    I said it all last year, Bailey is nasty. Reddick has a good glove and plus power, other than that he is as average as can be.

    Lets see how it plays out over time.  People have such short memories.

     



    Snake, I think it is more accurate to say he has a greatglove. Fangraphs have him as the 4th best fielder at any position in MLB for 2012.  His arm is top three of all MLB OF.  

     

    Even while being average as can be at all things other than power and glove he was the 27th best postion player in all of MLB Fangraphs WAR for 2012. 

    Bailey has career WAR of 4.4, JR 2102 4.5.

    I know who my money is on as we watch this one play out.

     



    You can't use WAR for a closer.  It compares their innings to starters.  When a starter only gives you 70 IPs, it a big negative, since that means a minor for 130 IPs.  When a closer gives you 70 IPs, that's exactly what they should do.

    For example, Rivera has a 38.6 career WAR, while Wakefield has a 38.9 career WAR.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Hindsight being 20/20 it's now pretty clear that we gave up on Reddick way too soon, and perhaps are still holding onto the ghost of Kalish?

    Whatever the case with Reddick, and I think he is going to be a very solid outfielder who will likely continue to hit for power while sacrificing avg., Bailey is clearly one hell of a pitcher.  Definitely has closer+++  type stuff!!!  :)  While he had a tough break last year, Bailey will likely be worth the wait.  The guy gives us probably the best set-up to closer combo in the mlb.  He rounds out likely the BEST BP in all of major league baseball.  THIS IS HUGE!!!!!   as this season is going to be made or broken over pitching.  With our SR clearly in question, even with a potentially awesome top of the rotation 1 -3, the BP could be our salvation as the season wears on....  With last year being an unavoidable disaster, as though it were almost preordained, the Bailey deal helps us to be well positioned for a ...........  historic season???  Hindsight????

    Reddick?

    He is what he is....  Not too shabby!  If you can put up with the SO & low average.  Many teams, who have players to set the table, would gladly put up with that and pay pretty big money for the pleasure.

    Who ends up being of greater value???  Depends what you need....  Turns out we needed 2 outfielders.  Would have been nice to have the guy, but it's clear he needed to be a full-time player to break out. 

    NOW....  We have 3 excellent OF'rs AND some awesome pitching out of the BP!  Bailey being a huge part of that!!!  Do we have all this if we kept Reddick???  How the hell could anybody ever know?

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to carnie's comment:

    blah blah blah WAR blah blah blah... yawn

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I can improve your post Carnie,

    blah blah blah  BA and Ks  blah blah blah  yawn

     

    WAR is germane to evaluating JR.  JR's value is mostly due to his great defense.  WAR also reflects that JR played 156 games last year and Bailey has only been over 50 innings once in the majors.

     

    You can't use WAR for a closer.  It compares their innings to starters.  When a starter only gives you 70 IPs, it a big negative, since that means a minor for 130 IPs.  When a closer gives you 70 IPs, that's exactly what they should do.

     

    For example, Rivera has a 38.6 career WAR, while Wakefield has a 38.9 career WAR.

     

    Of course Joe, but look at what Soriano and Robertson did last year.  MR is a HOF closer but finding an effective 70 inning closer is much easier than finding a starter.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    war <flush>

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to georom4's comment:

    war <flush>




    we can agree on this

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Josh is hitting .125 now with a .533 OPS.

    He hit .215 with a .647 OPS the second half of last year.

    I love a great fielder, and Fenway's RF heightens our need to always have a good one out there, but that's a pretty poor OPS for an OF'er over the last 350-400 PAs.

    His BA and OPs over his last 160 PAs or so is about .150/.515.

    Imagine if somone like Iggy hit that poorly in even a smaller sample size...

    Undecided

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Josh is hitting .125 now with a .533 OPS.

    He hit .215 with a .647 OPS the second half of last year.

    I love a great fielder, and Fenway's RF heightens our need to always have a good one out there, but that's a pretty poor OPS for an OF'er over the last 350-400 PAs.

    His BA and OPs over his last 160 PAs or so is about .150/.515.

    Imagine if somone like Iggy hit that poorly in even a smaller sample size...

    Undecided



    Thusfar Reddick has had two very good months in the Major leagues and thr rest of the time has been horrific.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Speaking of Reddick, any update on his wrist?  I admire him hussling out there but your team is up 8-0 against an Astros team that will lose over 100 games for the third straight year.  Also, there was concrete so he should have slide feet first.  Glad he was not seriously injured. 

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Reddick is now hitting 238 in his time at Oakland.

    Oh how I wish we still had him.

    MVP,

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    RF WAR 2012 + '13

    Sox   22nd  1.8

    Reddick   10th   4.4

    Batting average, have we time warped back to 1982?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Reddick is off to a bad start this year and Bailey is off to a good one.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickEO. Show RickEO's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

      Reddick is Fools Gold

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    Bailey is going to close for the time being. Just heard on WEEI that Hanny is dealing with a hammy o.O

    Anyways, No DL stint but bailey will be called upon until they can work whatever it is that hanrahan is dealing with.

     

     

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Josh is hitting .125 now with a .533 OPS.

    He hit .215 with a .647 OPS the second half of last year.

    I love a great fielder, and Fenway's RF heightens our need to always have a good one out there, but that's a pretty poor OPS for an OF'er over the last 350-400 PAs.

    His BA and OPs over his last 160 PAs or so is about .150/.515.

    Imagine if somone like Iggy hit that poorly in even a smaller sample size...

    Undecided



    Reddick's numbers didn't start diving until September - his stats on 9/1/2012 were pretty close to what they were on 7/1/2012 - then they took a nose dive, which is actually pretty common with players not accustomed to a 162-game schedules.  He also had a terrific Spring and a BABIP of .269 last year.  I think Reddick's going to average over .800 OPS for his career - .850 if he had stayed with the Sox. 

    I hated to see him go, but Bailey's a big part of arguably the best Sox bullpen I've ever seen.  If you're looking to pull the wool over a GM's eyes, stay away from dealing with Oakland.  The best you're going to do with Billy Beane is a win / win, and I think that's what we've done.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Reddick-Bailey

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

     

    I really don't think this should be a debate comparing Bailey and Reddick. At the time of the trade, both teams were getting things they needed. Sox needed a closer, and the A's needed outfield help. The big comparison here should be between the outfielders that were options for the trade...Reddick vs Kalish. The Sox thought that Kalish was going to be a bigger contributor...so far he's just been injured.

     




    I don't remember who exactly we had in our OF at the time (and I am too lazy to look it up), but I remember that there simply was no room for Reddick to be an everyday OF here. We traded him for a closer with stats very similar to Papelbon at the time.

     

     




    The Sox had Kalish and Reddick at basically the same level of development and made the determination that Kalish was the better player long term so Reddick became expendable. That still could be the case, but Kalish has been injured all the time so we might never know if Kalish would have been better had he stayed  healthy.

     
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