Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    I pretty much agree with Katz and others that right field is not a need, and I think the pen will work itself out as it appears to be doing recently.  Sure, Bard looks a little shaky in a critical role, but all mortal relievers struggle at some point during the season.  Even Rivera sometimes has a few consecutive shaky outings where fans begin to ask, "Is it time yet?"  The Red Sox could probably use a loogie, and I'm sure they'll put their feelers out before the deadline.  I don't think they'll give up much for one though.

    Catching was, and still is, the question.  The Red Sox will probably hold off making a move until the deadline.  What they might do is focus on a defensive and experienced backstop who they can park in Pawtucket and manuever the roster  around to work in big league reps before September.  Any slight injury at the postition will become a tryout for the postseason roster.  Bengie Molina is definitely a possibility too as a catcher in a holding pattern.  While not exactly a hitting phenom, and one of the slowest runners I've ever observed wearing a baseball uniform, the guy does have some pop and might slug a few over the monstah if he gets enough time to work some of the rust off.  If, for a limited time, they put three catchers on the roster, Bengie may be helpful in limited duty as a righty DH.  I also wouldn't mind seeing him fill in as a late inning defensive replacement after a catcher is pinchhit or pinchrun for. 
     
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    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Yeah, Molina looks like a slow-motion film flash-back.
    Man, he's slow.

    Flash forward for a moment: I don't know if the team had any intention of retaining Paps after this year. Otherwise, I doubt they spend the bread on CC. But now I'm wondering if they are beginning to second guess this.

    In other words, is the time table for Bard regressing? He's so talented but currently a very shaky bridge. As a closer, the idea is to be able to use him two - three days in a row if necessary. That of course depends on pitch count.

    Last game vs. NY, for example, it took him 34 pitches to get 4 outs.
    Paps got 3 outs in the 9th on a fraction of that. 14 I think. Bard was unavailable tonight for this reason. Unless he becomes more pitch efficient, the 2012 squad  will have to have a damn good back-up closer. And he must be supplemented by a lights out set-up guy.

    A lot is riding on Bard.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    In Response to Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?:
    [QUOTE]I just don't get you guys who are content with a RF who is going to get you 40 RBL's for 14 million and two catchers who couldn't throw out Vince Wilfork trying to steal second. Let's just hope Theo doesn't suffer from the same sentimentality you nitwits clearly have adopted.
    Posted by pumpsiefan[/QUOTE]

    I don't get fans who can't understand that the 14 million is already earmarked and mostly unrecoverable and won't just let it go and root for the player on the team.  You also don't look beyond a month and a half of play and project the season output from that.  Did you project Papi's last two seasons based on his April and May production? 

    Now, I'm not suggesting that Drew will necessarily turn it around like Papi did.  He is what he is, an excellent right fielder who will get on base, but may disappoint if you're expecting slugger homerun and RBI production.  They have plenty of guys in the lineup that can get the job done.  Going forward for this season, Drew may be another decent cog in the lineup.  If he's the number 7 hitter, there's not a helleva lot to be overly concerned about. 

    And yes, catching is a concern, but Salty is still an experiment and possible fillins may be called in if they feel Salty is not ready for the big stage down the stretch and in postseason.  I'm thinking that Bengie Molina could be like Ellston Howard in 67. 
     
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    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    I think the erratic strike zone has messed with Drew's head. It compromised his OBP last year. He won't face nearly as many southpaws this year, so it's really the best possible production from the Drew/Cam tandem.

    And if the farm replaces him, it's possible the cost to fill the  RF spot from 2007-2017 may average 8 mil a year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    If I could pick up a kemp or eithier for a couple of AAA kids like reddick, kalish, etc and drew with his salary substantially paid off I think you make a move like that.  Same for a 5th starter and flip Dice if you can.  As for catcher, there are so few decent catchers that can hit 250, with average D, that we can't afford one.  Martin was the one that got away.  We need to hope salty turns it around, or one of the farm guys turns it around.  Look at the mets and Dodgers rosters, and find the guys that appeal, keeping in mind that we are at the luxury tax cap, and every $ we add costs alot more.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    eithier, kemp, or beltran for the OF...all expensive, or barajas for catcher...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    RF - Jeff Franceour
     
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    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    In Response to Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?:
    [QUOTE]RF - Jeff Franceour
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    KC has him for peanuts, has a stacked farm system, and is actually competing this year.  Not happening.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Take a look at Bellsbury's splits v. LHP, this season. Doesn't look like that nail that keeps popping out this year and every other year is going to stay in.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Take a look at Ellsbury against lefties this year? 

    I did.  He's hitting lefties about as well as Pedroia is hitting everyone--about 20 points below .700.  It's hard to find a Sox fan who doesn't like Pedroia a lot, but right now he is close to being a big hole in the lineup. 

    Ellsbury, meanwhile, is second only to MVP candidate Gonzalez in runs scored and is tied with Ortiz for 3d most rbi's.  Right now, he, Youk, and Gonzalez are the three Sox hitters delivering the goods, with Ortiz close behind.  Plus, of course, there must be a reason why only Ellsbury and Gonzalez have played in every single game so far this season.  McDonald and Cameron would be more than happy to get his at bats against lefties, but for some strange reason--neither one can hit or run the bases-- Francona doesn't seem to want to use them. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

     What is with people wanting to get rid of Ellsbury and Lowrie.haven't they been watching the Sox or is their constant berating of these two guys based on a personal crusade to get rid of two young men have played better than they thought.I have seldom seen fans so vehement in their dislike of two players.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    You wouldn't even think about any of those moves right now.

    1-The RS catchers have about a .700 in May.  Anything materially better will be fairly expensive.

    2-Drew stinks right now, but he is a reliable .800 hitter.

    3-Right now, the BP is Paps, Bard, Aceves, Albers, and Hill.  None have an ERA over 3.00.  So you're going to trade for someone that you think might be an upgrade over Jenks when he returns?

    4-Lost among all this replacing guys that might not be a problem is the fact that we might have a real problem with our #4/5.  It makes no sense to be trading away chips for marginal upgrades when there is every reason to think we might need an SP.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    If you want to solve all 3" issues"...
    I still like my Blockbuster idea (adjusted from an earlier post):

    Trade:
    JD Drew and $6M of the $10.5 still owed him
    For:
    A prospect or two.
    (Save $4M)

    Send Salty to AAA to get his act together or until VTek gets hurt.

    Trade:
    RF: Ryan Kalsih
    IF: Oscar Tejada
    C: Any farm cather we have.
    The prospect(s) we got for Drew

    To Pittsburgh

    For:
    RF/CF: Andrew McCutchen: $.452M and 4 years of arb.
    C:  Chris Snyder: 11
    :$5.75M, 12:$6.75M club option ($0.75M buyout)
    LHP: Paul Maholm: 11:$5.75M, 12:$9.75M club option ($0.75M buyout)

    Basically, $14M for Mahom and Snyder for 1 year each and a great deal on 4+ years of McCutchen, a RH'd OF'er with huge upside. Count the $4M saved on Drew, and the deal costs $10M + the arb raises for Andrew.

    New team:

    C: Snyder/VTek
    1B: AGon (Youk)
    2B: Pedey
    3B: Youk
    SS: Lowrie/Scutaro (Iglesias)
    LF: Crawford/Cameron (platoon)/DMac
    CF: Ellsbury (Cameron)
    RF: McCutchen (Cameron)
    DH: Ortiz
     
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    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    In Response to Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?:
    [QUOTE]Take a look at Bellsbury's splits v. LHP, this season. Doesn't look like that nail that keeps popping out this year and every other year is going to stay in.
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]

    You are officially out of your mind.  You rail against Ellsbury and Lowrie yet the player you like get a pass.  What is that all about.  Ellsbury is on fire.  So what do you do?  Parse stats so they still say what you want.  How about this...He started slow but now he is doing a great job.  He may never get to whatever move the goalpost stats you quote.  For everyone else, he is doing just fine.  He hits line drives in the gaps, steals bases, and gives pitchers headaches even when he doesn't run.
     
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    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Jake is doing everything Softlaw said he should be doing. He's not going for dingers. He's getting on base. He's hitting to all fields.

    And yet he gives him no credit.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    In Response to Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?:
    [QUOTE]RF - Jeff Franceour
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    It is refreshing to see Can Do Bytch move into scouting instead of second guessing.  How well have the Sox done when buying high on players?

    OPS+
    2011    146
    2010     85
    2009     93
    2008     72
    2007    102
    2006     87

    If Cameron was hurt, Linares was bombing, and Jeff was available for next to nothing I still wouldn't take him becasuse of this:  

    "Mets outfielder Jeff Francoeur has told the club through his
    representatives that he is interested in being traded to a team that
    would play him more, both sides confirmed yesterday.

    “We want to
    play every day,” Francoeur’s agent Molly Fletcher said yesterday. “We
    prefer to play in New York. But if we’re not going to play every day in
    New York, we absolutely welcome the opportunity to play every day
    somewhere else . . . Talk to me is just that: It’s talk. What matters is
    what happens and is he in right field every day. And that’s what we’re
    watching.”

    Media campaigns designed to undermine team decision making are nothing new for Francoeur. In 2008 the Braves sent him down to the minors to try and figure out why he, you know, can’t hit. The stint was supposed to last weeks. As soon as he went down, however, stories began to appear in the Atlanta papers about how unhappy he was and his trip to the minors ended up lasting three games.

    If any other player acted like this he’d be called out as a prima donna. Not Francoeur!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

     know it seems insane to consider giving up two players who aer playing the best for the Sox, but you have to have some vision.
    Boras is definately going to take Els to the west coast bidding in a couple of years. His trade value is at its max right now.
    Same with Lowrie. He has proven he is far more than a utility player and if the Sox really are committed to Iglesias at short next season then what do you do with Lowrie? If someone is willing to part with a top flight catcher, RF or starting pitcher you gotta think about it. I for one could live with a Cameron/Kalish platoon in center this year and Scuturo at short with Navorro backing up if it meant adding Upton and Montero to the lineup.


    You would be correct. Planning requires the guts to sell high to address future needs and improve the current roster. Waiting like Theo and selling low and then making absurd FA moves is the work of an idiot, frankly. An idiot can destroy an ant hill with a cluster bomb, but that doesn't mean he should be a general.

    The decision on Iglesias for 2012 needs to be made now. Scutaro is on the books for 6 million with an option that can easily be cut way down to continue working with Igleasias, a player he has been mentoring. The plan should be to move Lowrie down the road at the first good window this summer or next winter. Lowrie's splits v. RHP are no impressive and he simply doesn't cut it as an everyday defensive SS. He's blocked at 2nd and 3B, and his numbers v. RHP don't cut it as a DH rotational guy. 

    Bellsbury has 2 more years of control. No GM in their right minds would give him a big long term contract, so instead of waiting it out and taking the picks and leaving several years of gap and question mark draft picks, move him and his 2 control years in the trade market and tap into the trade market to find a ready MLB palyer who better addresses future team needs.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    majorleague, you don't know from nothing about generals, let alone general managers. 

    Hard to see the logic of dumping Ellsbury when the Sox already own him--for two years or whatever it is until free agency--and he is playing well. 

    To remind.  He is one of two players on the team who has played in every game this year.  He is tied with Ortiz in rbi's at 19--third best on the team-- and second to Gonzalez in runs scored.  He's hitting .303.  He has twice as many SBs as Crawford.  His OPS is 5th best on the team and well above all four of the other outfielders--Drew, Crawford, Cameron, and McDonald.  He doesn't have much of an arm, but does have good range and rarely makes an error--I'm guessing he has maybe 3 since he joined the Sox in 2007. 

    Lowrie's OPS in May is much worse than in April, so that certainly bears watching.  But making a decision on Iglesias--that he will be the regular SS next year--is a little risky when the guy seems to be at best a singles hitter.  He didn't have any extra base hits at Pawtucket.  That could change with time, of course, but why make the decision now?  If Navarro recovers sooner than Scutaro, bring him to Boston and get Iglesias some every day experience at AAA.  He was no doubt thrilled to be sent to Boston, but sitting on the bench is hurting his development, and his development is crucial to making a decision on him for 2012. 

    I do know something about generals.  The smart ones always consider time available when making a decision.  If a decision isn't needed right away, they keep working the intelligence/information until the picture is clearer.  And they are always prepared to make a quick decision when and if it is needed.  Theo did that with Garciaparra/Cabrera in 2004 and with Manny/Jason in 2008. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Martin was the one that got away. 

    It looks that way now, but look again in 2-4 months.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Redsox biggest needs: catcher, right fielder, pen help. Who do we get for each?

    Jake is an asset.  You always want to trade high on all assets, if you trade them at all.  You also have to give something to get something.  Do we need to dump jake for little in return...heck no.  Could jake be moved in a deal for someone like kemp or ethier...be hard not to consider a deal like that.  Given the $ difference, Jake might not be a one for one straight up...but the additional players required to make a deal like that might be small given the $ situation.  Could the sox get both Kemp and Ethier for Jake and a combination of 2-4 minor leagers like Reddick, kalish, etc.  The $ implications would be heavy with the tax this year, but next year that could substantially go away with drew, cameron, and/or papi's deals ending.  How much of Drew's and cameron's $ could be dumped this year for nothing in return?  Unless they play better, probably not much.
     

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