Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Shaunessy's article on Lester is refreshing, to say the least.  Unlike Beckett, he unabashedly admits taking advantage of Tito's "Player's manager" style and lenience...saying "they" pushed it too far and let everyone down as a consequence.  He was stellar in his recent outing- determined to restore his credibility and regain fan's trust... and we can only hope that others will follow his lead.  I'm betting he emerges as the true Ace of the pitching rotation.  He has the talent and more importantly, he has the character to do it.  Very refreshing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillallbost08. Show stillallbost08's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    not knocking lester but had to laugh when you said he was stellar in his recent outing....against college kids..bowden pitched 2 scorless innings but that doesnt mean he pitched stellar....pitching against nervous college kids proves nothing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    Shaunessy's article on Lester is refreshing, to say the least.  Unlike Beckett, he unabashedly admits taking advantage of Tito's "Player's manager" style and lenience...saying "they" pushed it too far and let everyone down as a consequence.  He was stellar in his recent outing- determined to restore his credibility and regain fan's trust... and we can only hope that others will follow his lead.  I'm betting he emerges as the true Ace of the pitching rotation.  He has the talent and more importantly, he has the character to do it.  Very refreshing.
    Posted by michaelsjr


    We don't have an Ace like Verlander, but do have three very good pitchers when they concentrate on the task in hand.  Thats all we need, along with more production at the four and five slot than Wake and Lackey to have a great season.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Hm.

    I think Lester CAN be an ace like Verlander.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    FWIW, Lester was my biggest disappointment last September.  Beckett is a genius, but with a renegrade perspective.  Tito treated Lester like a son.  September is a lifetime ago for me, but if anyone let down Tito, it was Lester.  The 1-3 September didn't help either.

    Beckett is still the ace by a fair margin.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In Response to Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : We don't have an Ace like Verlander, but do have three very good pitchers when they concentrate on the task in hand.  Thats all we need, along with more production at the four and five slot than Wake and Lackey to have a great season.   
    Posted by craze4sox


    The Sox were only a game below .500 in games started by Wake or Lackey, despite their ERA's, a result that I'm perfectly fine with when talking about really the 4th and 6th starters.  We could certainly use more innings out of the 4 and 5 spot in the rotation, to keep the pen rested though.. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In Response to Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : We don't have an Ace like Verlander, but do have three very good pitchers when they concentrate on the task in hand.  Thats all we need, along with more production at the four and five slot than Wake and Lackey to have a great season.   
    Posted by craze4sox

    I am somewhat surprised at the modest projections for Clay Buchholz, who turns 28 in August. Buchholz needs to establish himself as a "very good pitcher" 2010 notwithstanding.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : I am somewhat surprised at the modest projections for Clay Buchholz, who turns 28 in August. Buchholz needs to establish himself as a "very good pitcher" 2010 notwithstanding.
    Posted by hill55


    No doubt Clay has the talent and the drive..unfortunately, his physical health is the big question mark.  Any Red Sox fan knows he wants to live up to expectations - unfortunately, his back is what stubbornly stands in his way.  Ask David Wells how difficult this is to overcome for any length of time.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    MUCH TO EARLY FOR PASSING MARKS ON LAST YEARS BAD BOYS !!!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : The Sox were only a game below .500 in games started by Wake or Lackey, despite their ERA's, a result that I'm perfectly fine with when talking about really the 4th and 6th starters.  We could certainly use more innings out of the 4 and 5 spot in the rotation, to keep the pen rested though.. 
    Posted by JB-3


    Hey JB,

    I agree, the 4 and 5 spots will need to improve and hopefully we won't have a guy like Weiland getting beat up 7 outings in a row down the stretch.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Whatever works.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brawny27. Show Brawny27's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?":
    Hm. I think Lester CAN be an ace like Verlander. Posted by ma6dragon9
    Agreed, but all red sox starters must step up their games,pitch longer into games, go for 7 innings each start!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?": Agreed, but all red sox starters must step up their games,pitch longer into games, go for 7 innings each start!
    Posted by Brawny27


    Do you realize how few pitchers average 7IP per start?

    There are a few, but to expect 5 on one team is an unrealisitic goal.  Might as well set the minimum bar for every hitter at a .400 BA and .550 OBP...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Beckett and Lester, and for that matter Buchholz, all have the potential of being aces. I said last year that I wouldn't be surprised to see Beckett emerge as the ace and basically, up until the seventh and eighth innings of his second to last start and the sixth inning ofhis last start, he was. A real ace closes out those game, and he fell short so he didn't quite finish off the season. Still, with better run support -- he had terrible run support -- he might have won 19 games. He pitched well enought to win 19 games.

    Lester has shown spurts of being an ace too. But potential is one thing. Getting it done all year is another thing, especially in clutch pennant games is another.

    We've talked the last two or three seasons about ace potential. While all three have knocked at the door, no one has kicked it through. Beckett came close last year only to see the door slam in his face.

    So instead of asking -- is so-and-so an ace. Let's watch how they do all season. That question won't be answered until the end of the season.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : Do you realize how few pitchers average 7IP per start? There are a few, but to expect 5 on one team is an unrealisitic goal.  Might as well set the minimum bar for every hitter at a .400 BA and .550 OBP...
    Posted by notin


    notin,

    I agree the IP have dropped in the last few years for most starters but we should get an average of six solid innings from our starters without giving up as many runs in return.  Lackey, Wake, Wieland etc. made it very difficult on our offense and pen last season.

    I think this is the one crucial area we can improve on that could make or break our season. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    Shaunessy's article on Lester is refreshing, to say the least.  Unlike Beckett, he unabashedly admits taking advantage of Tito's "Player's manager" style and lenience...saying "they" pushed it too far and let everyone down as a consequence.  He was stellar in his recent outing- determined to restore his credibility and regain fan's trust... and we can only hope that others will follow his lead.  I'm betting he emerges as the true Ace of the pitching rotation.  He has the talent and more importantly, he has the character to do it.  Very refreshing.
    Posted by michaelsjr


    I was glad to see/read Jon's ownership of the issues in the September fall.  He's being a man about it and is willing to pay the price of leadership, i think.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Agreed. The Red Sox are not going to pick up anybody else pitching wise. They are going to see what they can squeeze out of Bard and maybe something will float to the top from the "throwaways" from other teams. They figure that Matsusaka can come back for the second part of the season and be as good as a trade. The only serious flaw in this thinking is that none of the top three starters come down with an injury and that Bard does not struggle in the 4th spot. The thing that worries me is that I have never been comfortable with Dice K Matsusaka and his style of pitching. Even in the seasons early in his career when he pitched "well" her was frustrmating to watch with running high pitch counts by the 5th inning. He has never enamored me against teams like the Yankees and Tampa. I think Larry Luccino was talking out of the side of his mouth when he said they were going to "blow" past the luxury tax. I will believe that statement when I see it. In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?":
    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : I am somewhat surprised at the modest projections for Clay Buchholz, who turns 28 in August. Buchholz needs to establish himself as a "very good pitcher" 2010 notwithstanding. Posted by hill55
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    Wait....so slowelll bashes me for always being negative, and goes on any negative thread to speak down to people...

    ...and then comes to a POSITIVE thread to STILL be a d o o s h b a g.

    I hope your friends....family....well, a neighbor or something, has you on suicide watch. For all the critiquing people for being "negative" you must be the most miserable person anywhere.

    Somewhere a guy came home to find his wife cheating on him, then left only to watch his dog get hit by a car...and it started raining on him...and he STILL has a more positive atitude than you.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    An Ace pitches 7+ and throws 200 innings in a season... oh and k's about 200.... sorry we do not have an Ace.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    An Ace pitches 7+ and throws 200 innings in a season... oh and k's about 200.... sorry we do not have an Ace.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Well, we don't -- until we do.

    I agree with the innings but care less about the Ks. To me, an ace will start 32 to 34 games (in this era of 5-man rotations) pitch 225-plus innings and have a sub-3.00 ERA, although I won't quibble if a guy goes 20-5 with a 3.20 ERA with the above stated starts and innings.

    The Ks are just decoration. Who cares if he Ks 250 but has an ERA near 4.00.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    Wait....so slowelll bashes me for always being negative, and goes on any negative thread to speak down to people... ...and then comes to a POSITIVE thread to STILL be a d o o s h b a g. I hope your friends....family....well, a neighbor or something, has you on suicide watch. For all the critiquing people for being "negative" you must be the most miserable person anywhere. Somewhere a guy came home to find his wife cheating on him, then left only to watch his dog get hit by a car...and it started raining on him...and he STILL has a more positive atitude than you.
    Posted by ma6dragon9



    You continue to confuse what the definition of NEGATIVITY is. NEGATIVITY in a Red Sox forum is being NEGATIVE about your team. It has nothing at all to do about me being negative about you being NEGATIVE perpetually about the Red Sox. Get it? It really isn't that complex. Read carefully. My comments have always been about negative posters. Comprendo? Many posters just want a few positive posts / threads once in awhile about their team. Is that out of the question?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?":
    Wait....so slowelll bashes me for always being negative, and goes on any negative thread to speak down to people... ...and then comes to a POSITIVE thread to STILL be a d o o s h b a g. I hope your friends....family....well, a neighbor or something, has you on suicide watch. For all the critiquing people for being "negative" you must be the most miserable person anywhere. Somewhere a guy came home to find his wife cheating on him, then left only to watch his dog get hit by a car...and it started raining on him...and he STILL has a more positive atitude than you. Posted by ma6dragon9
    Pike is negative about negative posters who he perceives post negative things about the team. And, since there are 25 players to be negative about, and there's at least one poster who says something negative about each one, and since pike has to call each one of them out--by definition--he must by default be at least 25 times more negative than the average poster on BDC. You can't escape the math of it........
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?:
    In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?": Pike is negative about negative posters who he perceives post negative things about the team. And, since there are 25 players to be negative about, and there's at least one poster who says something negative about each one, and since pike has to call each one of them out--by definition--he must by default be at least 25 times more negative than the average poster on BDC. You can't escape the math of it........
    Posted by TheExaminer



    You seem to me to be defending all of the chronic, perpetual, boring, repetitive, cynical, skeptical, pessimistic, and gloomy posters who come here daily and nine of ten of their posts are negative about the Red Sox. Everyone who is a regular  here is well aware of them. Why do you act as if you don't see them? These types fill up your gamethreads. Are you proud of that? You seem to think that it is human nature to be negative instead of positive, why is that. Why defend wet blankets and morbid fans? What is your agenda for doing so? The forum is waiting for your astute response.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?

    In response to "Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace?":
    In Response to Re: Refreshing..do we finally have our ace? : You seem to me to be defending all of the chronic, perpetual, boring, repetitive, cynical, skeptical, pessimistic, and gloomy posters who come here daily and nine of ten of their posts are negative about the Red Sox. Everyone who is a regular  here is well aware of them. Why do you act as if you don't see them? These types fill up your gamethreads. Are you proud of that? You seem to think that it is human nature to be negative instead of positive, why is that. Why defend wet blankets and morbid fans? What is your agenda for doing so? The forum is waiting for your astute response. Posted by lowelll
    My astute response is that I see everything you do, I just have a life outside the forum, don't need to make everyone agree with me, am not arrogant enough to think I need to police the forum to make sure they play like I think they should, and don't bloody care what other people post. You my friend, are a control freak. If every Sox fan in the nation said "this team sucks", what is it to me? I'm my own man, I don't need them to agree with me to be a fan. There's one more thing all the regulars on here see, and that is that you exactly fulfill every adjective you apply to the so called phony fans. Chronic? Check. Perpetual? Check. Boring? Check. Repetitive? Check. Cynical? Check. Skeptical? Check. Pessimistic? Check. Gloomy? Check. Nine out of ten posts negative? Check. Difference is, your diatribes are about other posters who you deem to be lesser fans than yourself. I don't see how you are better, you are in fact, much worse--which is why you're hands down the most disliked poster in the entire forum. That astute enough for you?
     
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