Remember those Yankee fans who...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

    Remember those Yankee fans who...

    ...used to tell us it's not the money, well Theo is doing everything he can to prove them right.

    The scary thing about Crawford is what a poor left fielder he is.  He has speed, and nothing else, and even with his speed, there's no quickness to the ball, and he's timid at best. And lollypop throws to home that miss the cutoff man?  So Theo paid $20 mil a year for what?  Scary.  After 12 games it already appears something is missing, that beyond the athletic ability, he's lost.  The only hope I have is that Gammons loves the guy, and insists he wants to be a great player and will be. 

    And with all their money, Salty is behind the plate.  In all my years watching the Red Sox and MLB, if there has ever been a worse looking major league player who was supposed to be the everyday anwser at any position, I have long since put him out of my memory.  Watching Salty look at third strikes is particularly pathetic.  He's the anti-Pedroia -- a player with much less mustard than ketchup.

    So for decades I've hated the Yankees for buying their championships.  Earlier this year I started a thread debating the ugliness of now being a fan of a team (the Sox) that is now trying to follow in the Yankee tradition.  I hate this approach to the game.  And now Theo is demonstrating that the Yankee fans have always been right!!!!  Yankee fans have said for years, give most baseball executives too much money and they won't compete with the Yankees, they'll drown in the poor performances of players they fall in love with but aren't quite right.  If you have made as many moves as Theo, there are bound to be a lot of good ones.  But I honestly don't think that a GM who is supposed to have the mind for the game Theo is reputed to have would make so many moves that are just so bad long-term.

    Dice-K is the best example of this kind of baseball ignorance.  He was a $100,000,000 ($50 mil buy, $10 mil a year, or something like that) player that wasn't good enough for the Red Sox coaches to allow to do it his way, and the way he had always done it.  Instead, they wanted him to throw the ball over the plate, and lower his pitch count.  Well, if it isn't obvious that what Dice-K was doing the other day was showing up the Sox for not letting him be the pitcher that he is, well, you're not paying attention.  He was a nibbler in Japan, but the Sox, with so much money they can dream instead of know, brought him in here anyway, and decided that pitch count was more important than respect.  Idiocy.  Remember all the criticsm Dice-K got the year he won 18 games but rarely made it out of the 6th inning? Brilliant.  Great for the guy's ego.  And he's from Japan, where that stuff actually matters.  Is it any wonder he's been completely ineffective ever since?  Idiocy.

    And the Sox brain trust just about ruined Buckholtz by changing his arm slot, and Clay didn't get his game back until he went back to his college coach.

    The problem with the Red Sox organization right now is that they are in love with their own brilliance even as they are haunted by their failures to land the big guns that the Yankees have out monied them for in recent years that they go crazy on the second-raters just so they can pound their chests and say see -- we can get ours. 

    And when they're not spending too much money they're spending too little.  How bright is it to think you know more about a young catcher than a Texas team that is being built with brains instead of money and can't afford to let any real talent get away?

    The Yankee fans have always been right, evidently.  And like I said before, in other threads, the real shame is that Theo doesn't make little mistakes.  He makes mistakes that will cost this team for years to come, because you can't get rid of a guy you're paying twice as much as he's worth, although Theo has time and time again, mostly at short stop, and paid the price for years. 

    This is a great team, on paper.  Too bad this is reality.   And the real product is soft and inept.

    The Yankee fans were right all along.  And Theo has done so much damage there is no easy return.  There's just a lot of guys making a lot of money saying, hey, I think I'm playing pretty well.

    Is this a 2-10 team.  Well, it looked like it coming out of spring training, and it sure as hell looks like it now. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChrisHouse. Show ChrisHouse's posts

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    You came here to vent and let it all out and that is your right. Do you want company as in "misery likes company" or are you looking for someone to listen to you say "I told you so"? Are you here to enlighten us on what it means to be a disappointed Red Sox fan? Gee, we aren't disappointed since we've been living in a cave, you say that they are 2-10, 2-10 is that correct, thank you mate - I'm a little bit hard at hearing. Are you here to preach to the choir? Are you here looking for an argument or a debate and were hoping that you find someone who is happy with the team? Why not do what most of the fans are doing - suffer in silence.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    [QUOTE]You came here to vent and let it all out and that is your right. Do you want company as in "misery likes company" or are you looking for someone to listen to you say "I told you so"? Are you here to enlighten us on what it means to be a disappointed Red Sox fan? Gee, we aren't disappointed since we've been living in a cave, you say that they are 2-10, 2-10 is that correct, thank you mate - I'm a little bit hard at hearing. Are you here to preach to the choir? Are you here looking for an argument or a debate and were hoping that you find someone who is happy with the team? Why not do what most of the fans are doing - suffer in silence.
    Posted by ChrisHouse[/QUOTE]

    Obviously the post was motivated by your being such a sweet kisser.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Remember those Yankee fans who...

    ...used to tell us it's not the money,


    personally I never said that

    I have said, ... it's not ALL ABOUT  the money, many times,

    I've always tried to make a case that

     part of the yankee payroll should be charged to advertising,

    not labor
     

    Name Brands cost more,  sell more

    than some other players where their total cost /value shows on the field

    was arod better than most ........sure

    but never twice as good

    I think with the bad nesn ratings last yr

    a case could be made that the sox

    are into name brands more than B4








     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    A losing team isn't good advertising.  Already, all most people are watching are the games.  And I haven't seen so few people at a ballgame at Fenway as were there last night in a long, long time, no matter what the weather.  But, blame it on the weather.  Like the poor play.  

    This team has to be better than this.  Of course.  No team has ever just won 27 games, have they?  27-135.  That would actually be fun.  And we could buy tickets on sub-hub for a buck a piece.  And sit behind the dugout. 

     
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from g-boogie. Show g-boogie's posts

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    [QUOTE]...used to tell us it's not the money, personally I never said that I have said, ... it's not ALL ABOUT  the money, many times, I've always tried to make a case that  part of the yankee payroll should be charged to advertising, not labor   Name Brands cost more,  sell more than some other players where their total cost /value shows on the field was arod better than most ........sure but never twice as good I think with the bad nesn ratings last yr a case could be made that the sox are into name brands more than B4
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    It's always easy to blame the money. When you are a large market team with fans who pour millions in support behind the team, you are gonna have a large payroll. Minnesota's payroll has crept up there now, and most of that spending had to do with keeping their own so to speak. Namely Mauer.

    Boston and NY has to have a special type of player who can bring it on the field and deal with the city, media and fan base. For that, you get charged premium dollar. Otherwise, you get a guy like Greinke who can only function on a team and in a market like the Kansas City Royals.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember those Yankee fans who... : It's always easy to blame the money. When you are a large market team with fans who pour millions in support behind the team, you are gonna have a large payroll. Minnesota's payroll has crept up there now, and most of that spending had to do with keeping their own so to speak. Namely Mauer. Boston and NY has to have a special type of player who can bring it on the field and deal with the city, media and fan base. For that, you get charged premium dollar. Otherwise, you get a guy like Greinke who can only function on a team and in a market like the Kansas City Royals.
    Posted by g-boogie[/QUOTE]

    Good point. 

    But it's alarming.  The money is making this  team worse, not better.  Right now, the only real keepers on this team were developed down on the farm.  The rest of the talent on this team pales in comparison to the young talent.  Yeah, you need free agents and trades, but you have to be a good enough talent evaluator not to make mistakes you are going to have to live with for four or more years, and Theo seems to spend John Henry's money making these mistakes repeatedly.  Would the Red Sox now be a better teaim if they had a $150,000,000 budget?  Well, maybe not this year, but for years in thef future, because as bad as some of the "talent" on this team apparently is, they're going to have to live with those players for three to seven more years.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

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    First off... money alone NEVER wins championships. However, it sure as hell doesn't hurt. The BoSox have a MASSIVE advantage over every teamin baseball except for one when it come it to payroll, yet they did not make the tournament last year. The Yankees for all their money went 8 years without winning a championship AND ,issed the playoffs in '08. Building a great team can be done in many ways, but when it comes to spending money, it all comes down to spending money on the RIGHT guys. The '98 Yankees (easily the best team of the last 50 years) were so successful because the money they threw at veteran guys to fill out the roster was spent on guys who played to win. (Tim Raines, Chili Davis, David Wells, Scott Brosius) they used these guys to compliment a lineup, that didn't have an MVP candidate, yet every out was a trial for the pitcher (Although Bernie Williams in his prime should have gotten more MVP consideration considering he was one of the toughest outs in the game and incredibly productive)  It is way to early to decide that Theo spent his money (whether through free agency or trades) unwisely. This team has a GREAT lineup, and despite slow starts from CC and Youk... these guys WILL HIT. Give it time for the team to get rolling, and by June 15th all this panic will be a distant memory.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan791. Show redsoxfan791's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember those Yankee fans who... : It's always easy to blame the money. When you are a large market team with fans who pour millions in support behind the team, you are gonna have a large payroll. Minnesota's payroll has crept up there now, and most of that spending had to do with keeping their own so to speak. Namely Mauer. Boston and NY has to have a special type of player who can bring it on the field and deal with the city, media and fan base. For that, you get charged premium dollar. Otherwise, you get a guy like Greinke who can only function on a team and in a market like the Kansas City Royals.
    Posted by g-boogie[/QUOTE]

    With all due respect, this isn't actually true in most cases.  The reasons most (but not all) players fail to perform upon "playing under the bright lights of a big market" is because they are past their prime.  Typically, players in this situations sign big contracts with teams like Boston, NY, LA via free agency.  Most players peak between 25-29 (avg. age of 27), and most become free agents in their early 30s.  As a result, it shouldn't be a surprise that said players don't perform as well "under the bright lights." 

    People always jump to psychological reasoning because it's something they can relate to.  They can understand the concept of caving under pressure because they've probably experienced that at some point in their life.  What most people can't understand is the idea that someone's peaked at their job in their late 20s.  Why?  Because most of us don't reach our peaks at our jobs until our mid-to-late 40s or even early 50s.  The concept of athletes peaking so early seems counter intuitive despite the fact there's mounds of data expressing this is the norm. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember those Yankee fans who... : With all due respect, this isn't actually true in most cases.  The reasons most (but not all) players fail to perform upon "playing under the bright lights of a big market" is because they are past their prime.  Typically, players in this situations sign big contracts with teams like Boston, NY, LA via free agency.  Most players peak between 25-29 (avg. age of 27), and most become free agents in their early 30s.  As a result, it shouldn't be a surprise that said players don't perform as well "under the bright lights."  People always jump to psychological reasoning because it's something they can relate to.  They can understand the concept of caving under pressure because they've probably experienced that at some point in their life.  What most people can't understand is the idea that someone's peaked at their job in their late 20s.  Why?  Because most of us don't reach our peaks at our jobs until our mid-to-late 40s or even early 50s.  The concept of athletes peaking so early seems counter intuitive despite the fact there's mounds of data expressing this is the norm. 
    Posted by redsoxfan791[/QUOTE]

    Good point, and I agree completely. 

    Hopefully Crawford isn't past his prime. I think what is going on is that the change in markets and all the distractions that are here in Boston, and the adjustment from being a young star on a small market team to being a mega star in baseball heaven, have taken Crawford out of his game -- and not in his head in terms of a psychological challenge, but in his basic approach to the game and his ability to focus normally on all the work that has to go into it between games.  He has a batting stance that relies so significantly on timers and timing that he is slump prone anyway.  He's always been a player who has gone hot and cold.  Hopefully, he'll find himself.  If so, it's going to take a lot of hours in the batting cage and the focus has to be simple -- see the ball, hit the ball.  Right now, from my vantage point, he's seeing the ball but there is no natural transition into the flow of a grooved swing, and he appears to be thinking about mechanics rathern than flowing smoothly to the ball.  His timing is as screwed up as it gets. 

    I think he'll be ok, though.  A lot of guys have let the Green Monster get in their heads.  Even AGon is a few weeks away from finding his real groove. 

    The thing that scares me most about Crawford and the kind of player he will shape up to be is his play in left field.  Poor quickness.  Poor concentration.  Doesn't hit the cutoff.  That's something to worry about.  Great players don't play that way.  He looks like a rookie out there.  They called Yaz a great player from the neck down.  Well, Yaz was twice the left fielder Crawford is showing himself to be right now.  Yaz had great quickness to the ball, with a great first step, and the wall didn't intimidate him.

    But again, let's give Crawford the same amount of time Tito gave Pedroia, who I was willing to throw under the bus way back when, like most fans.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

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    "The scary thing about Crawford is what a poor left fielder he is.  He has speed, and nothing else, and even with his speed, there's no quickness to the ball, and he's timid at best. And lollypop throws to home that miss the cutoff man?  So Theo paid $20 mil a year for what?  Scary.  After 12 games it already appears something is missing, that beyond the athletic ability, he's lost.  The only hope I have is that Gammons loves the guy, and insists he wants to be a great player and will be."- Goboso


    Wait a minute... I've seen this movie already:

    Beltre had a rough start last year, especially in the Fielding Department. I seem to remember the all doom and gloom early in the year. What a horrible signing by Theo. Fast forward to the end of the season, or no... Better yet, let's fast forward to the Off-Season. What a horrible decision by Theo to not re-sign Beltre with the year he had. Which is it? You can't have it both ways! Which is it dude?!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    [QUOTE] This team has a GREAT lineup, and despite slow starts from CC and Youk... these guys WILL HIT. Give it time for the team to get rolling, and by June 15th all this panic will be a distant memory.
    Posted by stormcrow7878[/QUOTE]

    I think the Sox have a good enough lineup to make the wildcard with average pitching, and to win it all with great pitching.  As usual, it all comes down to pitching.  Seeing Beckett pitch great for two games is about the best development we could have, because of the three starters whose names aren't Lester or Buchholz, Beckett is the only one who can be that top of the rotation guy -- which means a guy who can dominate both the free swinging lineups like Texas and Toronto, and the more disciplined lineups like the Yankees.  So potentially, if Beckett holds up, we still win 95 games after this poor start, and dominate the playoffs until we get the Phillies in the WS.  That will be a pitching war that the Sox should win if their lineup develops, AND they get a real big league catcher.  No new catcher, and they may not make the playoffs.  Yes, the catching situation IS that bad.  The worst in baseball, IMO.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    re emp 9.


    I hated Beltre's "I'm catching that ball and you had better get the hell out of my way" approach, and I did not want him back.  That, plus the fact that he historically only gives his best in contract years....


    Beltre's a wrecking ball. And my bet is that he ends the year in Texas, which is a great hitters park, with numbers that are significanly inferior to those of AGon. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from silversteinsox. Show silversteinsox's posts

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    Is GoBoSo happy or sad. He seems to be flip flopping and contradicting himself each time that he posts. My guess that is he just craves attention.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    Silverstiensox, you are such a good little guesser. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from silversteinsox. Show silversteinsox's posts

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    You always neglect to state the obvious that Cashman has made at least double the number of bad signings of free agents that Theo has made. Many of Theo's signings are labeled as poor only in hindsight after unexpected performances and unforeseen injuries. Theo's job performance has been debated ad nauseum in recent years and many threads started by trolls such as yourself.
     
    You do a good job however pretending to be a Red Sox fan but most can see right through it. Concern trolls always start out with a "Don't get me wrong but ----", then they state their laundry list of "sincere" concerns and then end up saying "Maybe I was overstating and exaggerating". A very clever act to make the gullible think that you are credible. Such concern trolling isn't working as well anymore. Why not try it in the Pats or Celtics forum since it appears by the lack of responses that your act is stale here.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

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    emp9...GoBo seems to have missed your point.  You are right about Beltre.  I remember when his average was good but he had not hit with power yet.  The Nation was going wild.  By the end of the year, everyone acted like they were behind Beltre all along.  I guess that is how it works in New England!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    jimdavis, you are right, I did miss emp9's point.  I hear someone mention Beltre and it's always "we should have kept Beltre", so I automated into a response.

    I agree that we just have to wait it out.  With Crawford.  But keep him in the same place in the batting order for a month or two.  I think 7th is as good a spot as any.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

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    Crawford will come around. He's proved himself to be 4-tool player of over damnn near a decade. If he learns to use Fenway to his advantage for 80 games a year, all of a sudden he could be a 5-tool player signed long term. Yeah, for a lot of money, you're right. It get's worse because his numbers are horrible @ Oakland, so don't think his slump is going to end tonight. Meanwhile, Jason Werth is batting a whopping .200, with the same amount of rbi (2) that Crawford has.  Anyone want to start a thread called "Werth has 3 more hits than Crawford"? I certainly don't. Why? Because I don't give a sh#t. It's too early for that garbage.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    A guy moving from the Rays to the Red Sox must feel kind of like reaching puberty all over again.  Suddenly, life aint so simple.  More fun, sure.  Simple like it used to be?  No way.  Eventually, Crawford will adjust to the pubescence of Boston just fine (unlike Luggy and Rentherria), he just needs to remember how to close his legs to an inside fastball.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

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    [QUOTE]jimdavis, you are right, I did miss emp9's point.  I hear someone mention Beltre and it's always "we should have kept Beltre", so I automated into a response. I agree that we just have to wait it out.  With Crawford.  But keep him in the same place in the batting order for a month or two.  I think 7th is as good a spot as any.
    Posted by GoBoSo[/QUOTE]

    I hear ya, GoBo.  Crawford will be fine.  He is too good.  The adjustment could take longer than people like but thats just the way it is. Patience = baseball but not in Red Sox Nation!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoBoSo. Show GoBoSo's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember those Yankee fans who... : I hear ya, GoBo.  Crawford will be fine.  He is too good.  The adjustment could take longer than people like but thats just the way it is. Patience = baseball but not in Red Sox Nation!
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    I enjoyed the heck out of last year.  All those kids playing.  That's was really fun, seeing what they could do, hoping they were better than they are.  And now this year, looking forward to tonight's game, it's not about AGon or Crawdaddy, it's about Jed and wondering how many hits he'll get.  Left handed starter for Oakland.  Jed will get his.  And Uke and Pedroia are hitting. 

    Took a nap this afternoon.  The Celtics will be a good warmup.  Lackey will pitch well against Oakland. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Remember those Yankee fans who... : I enjoyed the heck out of last year.  All those kids playing.  That's was really fun, seeing what they could do, hoping they were better than they are.  And now this year, looking forward to tonight's game, it's not about AGon or Crawdaddy, it's about Jed and wondering how many hits he'll get.  Left handed starter for Oakland.  Jed will get his.  And Uke and Pedroia are hitting.  Took a nap this afternoon.  The Celtics will be a good warmup.  Lackey will pitch well against Oakland. 
    Posted by GoBoSo[/QUOTE]

    You are right about last year.  We seem to be in the minority about the 2010 season and enjoying it.

    I switch sides as I am a Knick fan.  However, while I hated the Parish, McHale, Bird Celts, I am a big fan of Garnett, Pierce and Ray.  They are hard not to like.  Either that or the Knicks have been bad for so long that I lost all my Celtic hatred!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamaicaPlain67. Show JamaicaPlain67's posts

    Re: Remember those Yankee fans who...

    GoBoSo seems like a chamelion. Very tough to figure out what he is.
     

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