Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.



    Peter Gammons said in an interview a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised at all if Vasquez was starting by the end of THIS season, based on conversations he's had with some people in the Sox organization.  He also said in another interview this week that he was discussing which catcher has the best arm besides Molina with some people in baseball and it was agreed that Vasquez has the best arm in any American League organization, including the Majors.  Gammons is getting old and he's way off at times, but he's still well respected and gets a decent scoop every now and then.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.

     



    Peter Gammons said in an interview a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised at all if Vasquez was starting by the end of THIS season, based on conversations he's had with some people in the Sox organization.  He also said in another interview this week that he was discussing which catcher has the best arm besides Molina with some people in baseball and it was agreed that Vasquez has the best arm in any American League organization, including the Majors.  Gammons is getting old and he's way off at times, but he's still well respected and gets a decent scoop every now and then.

     



    If he does come up while we are in the hunt, I hope the learning curve is not too long with the staff.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.

     



    Peter Gammons said in an interview a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised at all if Vasquez was starting by the end of THIS season, based on conversations he's had with some people in the Sox organization.  He also said in another interview this week that he was discussing which catcher has the best arm besides Molina with some people in baseball and it was agreed that Vasquez has the best arm in any American League organization, including the Majors.  Gammons is getting old and he's way off at times, but he's still well respected and gets a decent scoop every now and then.

     

     



    If he does come up while we are in the hunt, I hope the learning curve is not too long with the staff.

     



    I agree, Moon.  The interview was at the beginning of the season, so my guess is he was thinking that if they were out of it late in the year, they would throw him out there, but just didn't say it.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    Vasquez was impressive. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    I don't think the team makes the play-offs but everything to date suggests they will.... even so I prefer to try Lav at catcher under Ross's tutelage.  I'd rather give it a go than not.... I am all for youth being interwoven with proven MLB players who can absorb the ups and downs of a youngsters failings, short-comings, and MLB level schooling.




    Im not in the clubhouse, but if Salty isnt trying to get better on D, Id absolutely give Lava a shot.  Lava is a smart kid who works his butt off.  Be consistent.  If you punish people who do not work on their shortcomings, reward people who do.  Defense use to be the concern w/ Lava.....Then he won the AAA version of the gold glove.  That has to, if not anything else, show that he's working hard at his trade and improving.

    I'm not a Salty hater; however, what Olney says concerns me.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    Does David Ross warrant consideration as the #1 C?  I'm very impressed with the way he frames pitches.  Framing pitches is more important than throwing runners out (based on what I read).

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.

     



    Peter Gammons said in an interview a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised at all if Vasquez was starting by the end of THIS season, based on conversations he's had with some people in the Sox organization.  He also said in another interview this week that he was discussing which catcher has the best arm besides Molina with some people in baseball and it was agreed that Vasquez has the best arm in any American League organization, including the Majors.  Gammons is getting old and he's way off at times, but he's still well respected and gets a decent scoop every now and then.

     

     



    If he does come up while we are in the hunt, I hope the learning curve is not too long with the staff.

     

     



    I agree, Moon.  The interview was at the beginning of the season, so my guess is he was thinking that if they were out of it late in the year, they would throw him out there, but just didn't say it.  

     




    I imagine if they are going good they wont mess with anything, nor should they. I think Vasquez is in the mix next year though.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    There was an article on bleacher report today that sighted recent comments from buster olney that other execs beieve the sox are looking into acquiring an upgrade over salty behind the plate sooner rather than later. in terms of in house options, ryan lavarnway is the obvious choice, but the question is, is he really an upgrade? i would say he deserves a shot before we look to deal for anyone. in terms of the trade market, our options are pretty limited. The first name that comes to mind and perhaps the most likely target is Brian McCann. The braves have a replacement in evan gattis and a prospect who could be the eventual catcher of the future for them. McCan is in his walk year and the chances of him being re-signed are slim. The braves will likely be open to moving him for the right price. McCann is 29, can hit and plays pretty good d. I would be all for going after him as we could really use an upgrade at catcher. what do you guys think?

    Ya think ????  Salty is not part of the defenseive future..... Give Lavarnway a chance.... The next "CARLTON FISK" without the cornfield !!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    I don't think the team makes the play-offs but everything to date suggests they will.... even so I prefer to try Lav at catcher under Ross's tutelage.  I'd rather give it a go than not.... I am all for youth being interwoven with proven MLB players who can absorb the ups and downs of a youngsters failings, short-comings, and MLB level schooling.

     




    Im not in the clubhouse, but if Salty isnt trying to get better on D, Id absolutely give Lava a shot.  Lava is a smart kid who works his butt off.  Be consistent.  If you punish people who do not work on their shortcomings, reward people who do.  Defense use to be the concern w/ Lava.....Then he won the AAA version of the gold glove.  That has to, if not anything else, show that he's working hard at his trade and improving.

     

    I'm not a Salty hater; however, what Olney says concerns me.

      B I N G O !!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I said, before the season started, that Ross should be the starting catcher. Salty has always been a butcher, and fielding and throwing and catching and blocking the ball is the most important part of being a catcher. Calling pitches should come from the bench and the pitcher doing his homework.



    You did say that, but some have their doubts, me among them, about Ross's hitting.  As I recall, you used to focus almost exclusively on Varitek's hitting as the be all and end all of catching.  Now suddenly only the defensive part counts.  The only great defensive catchers in the HOF are the ones who could also hit. 

    I completely disagree Salty is a butcher, but am concerned about his inability to throw anyone out at 2d.  His catching seems OK to me, ditto his pitch-calling.  As for the latter, I firmly believe only a good catcher can see clearly what the pitcher is throwing and with what effect--and translating that into what pitches to call for.  The pitcher needs to focus on execution, period--thinking can only mess him up.  The manager or pitching coach has the wrong vantage point for assessing what the pitches look like. 

    Last year the Sox had almost the worst rotation in the AL, and this year it is almost the best.  If you blame Salty for last year, you have to give him some small credit for this year because there was no overhaul of the rotation in the offseason.  In fact, you have assured us that Dempster and Lackey are little leaguers, but so far both are doing pretty good. 

    Funny thing is, I am not that high on Saltalamacchia.  But I can see why the FO would be reluctant to dump him. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    If he does come up while we are in the hunt, I hope the learning curve is not too long with the staff.

     

     



    I agree, Moon.  The interview was at the beginning of the season, so my guess is he was thinking that if they were out of it late in the year, they would throw him out there, but just didn't say it.  

     

    Agreed. An injury could create an opening as well.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from thegrandsalami. Show thegrandsalami's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to tom-uk's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

     

    There was an article on bleacher report today that sighted recent comments from buster olney that other execs beieve the sox are looking into acquiring an upgrade over salty behind the plate sooner rather than later. 

     



    The most important revelation from Olney was:

     

    "front office executive who spoke on condition of anonymity said there are those around the league who feel Salty just doesn't work hard enough on his defense since he can hit -- this wouldn't be the most surprising thing to learn, given Boston had trouble unloading him this winter when they made him available to trade. "

    http://www.overthemonster.com/2013/5/1/4290514/red-sox-jarrod-saltalamacchia-trade-rumors

     

     




    Don't think he works all that hard on hitting either.


    Plus I think they just upgraded tonight by putting Ross in there.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    Salty's a butcher, behind the plate. He's fine, as a backup. 

    Why is being a "butcher" okay for 50-65 games?

     

    As for McCann, must be a slow day for Wedgie. The Red Sox should offer next to nothing for McCann, and then, if he becomes a FA at year end, offer him a 3 year contract at base 10. In the end, Red Sox managment should trade for a good catcher prospect or develop it and promote it from within. McCann, that doesn't get me giddy, reading Buster Wedgie's name dropping.

    Your suggested offers are a joke and would be too insulting to even attempt. I have you down for thinking McCann is slightly better than Russell martin.

     

    I said, before the season started, that Ross should be the starting catcher.

    No, you said just about the opposite> You said he was a career back-up who could never handle a fulltime job.

     

    Salty has always been a butcher, and fielding and throwing and catching and blocking the ball is the most important part of being a catcher.

    He had one of the best WP+PB/Inning rate in MLB last year. What games are you watching?

    He is a "butcher" at throwing out base runners, but I thought you felt SBs were over-rated (at least when Jake steals some).

     

    Calling pitches should come from the bench and the pitcher doing his homework.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    Does David Ross warrant consideration as the #1 C?  I'm very impressed with the way he frames pitches.  Framing pitches is more important than throwing runners out (based on what I read).



    I read somewhere that Salty was rated very highly on pitch framing.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    I remember at the time of the trade in 2010 being against adding Jarrod Saltalamacchia because his CERA's were very bad compared to his team mates in Texas and Atlanta. Don't remember exactly how bad, but they were bad.

    Salty's CERA this season is 3.85. Ross's CERA is a full run less at 2.69. Last year they were terrible compared to Shopach. In 2011 they were terrible compared to Varitek. Just a 0.1 CERA difference will cost you a game or two in a year. But we are talking about a run a game. Even if you discount these numbers somewhat based on bad luck and coincidence, he could be costing us around 5 games a year. Maybe a lot more.

    Salty has made awful defensive plays in some of our close losses. Its visible how bad he is. He has yet to throw a runner out. He is an awful catcher defensively and is the biggest flaw on this team.

    I wish we had traded him this off season. Making catching changes mid season is a problem. I like a lot of our catchers in the minors, but not sure they are quite ready yet. Lavarnway is close, but not sure. At least Lavarnway knows most of our pitchers.

    I don't see a good trade target. I would stick with Salty a while longer while thinking about it a little more, play Ross equal time at least the next month and hope Lavarnway looks ready in a month. Then probably make the change.

    CERA can be a misleading stat. But not in these extremes in a 8 year sample size. Its real and its bad news. Calling a game is the job of a catcher. He is playing chess with the hitter. Some catchers are just not smart enough to do it well. And I believe its the most under rated part of baseball stat wise.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Vasquez just went yard again today for Portland. Im telling you, this kid is the catcher of the future. Hopefully the future comes sooner than later. Love his all around game.

     



    Peter Gammons said in an interview a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised at all if Vasquez was starting by the end of THIS season, based on conversations he's had with some people in the Sox organization.  He also said in another interview this week that he was discussing which catcher has the best arm besides Molina with some people in baseball and it was agreed that Vasquez has the best arm in any American League organization, including the Majors.  Gammons is getting old and he's way off at times, but he's still well respected and gets a decent scoop every now and then.

     

     



    If he does come up while we are in the hunt, I hope the learning curve is not too long with the staff.

     



    If the team continues to win it would be absolutely stupid to dump Salty, as expendable as he is. Thats something for the offseason if we are still doing well.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I remember at the time of the trade in 2010 being against adding Jarrod Saltalamacchia because his CERA's were very bad compared to his team mates in Texas and Atlanta. Don't remember exactly how bad, but they were bad.

    Salty's CERA this season is 3.85. Ross's CERA is a full run less at 2.69. Last year they were terrible compared to Shopach. In 2011 they were terrible compared to Varitek. Just a 0.1 CERA difference will cost you a game or two in a year. But we are talking about a run a game. Even if you discount these numbers somewhat based on bad luck and coincidence, he could be costing us around 5 games a year. Maybe a lot more.

    Salty has made awful defensive plays in some of our close losses. Its visible how bad he is. He has yet to throw a runner out. He is an awful catcher defensively and is the biggest flaw on this team.

    I wish we had traded him this off season. Making catching changes mid season is a problem. I like a lot of our catchers in the minors, but not sure they are quite ready yet. Lavarnway is close, but not sure. At least Lavarnway knows most of our pitchers.

    I don't see a good trade target. I would stick with Salty a while longer while thinking about it a little more, play Ross equal time at least the next month and hope Lavarnway looks ready in a month. Then probably make the change.

    CERA can be a misleading stat. But not in these extremes in a 8 year sample size. Its real and its bad news. Calling a game is the job of a catcher. He is playing chess with the hitter. Some catchers are just not smart enough to do it well. And I believe its the most under rated part of baseball stat wise.



    1) Three days ago Salty had a better CERA than Ross, so that shows you how small the sample sizes are.

    2) CERA should never be compared the way you are doing it. Some catch different pitchers more or less often, so it is best to compare catchers with each pitcher- one by one.

    3) After April 25, 2012 Salty had a better CERA than the other Sox catchers combined. That's a larger sample size than this year's.

    4) Salty's CERA numbers have improved by leaps and bounds with the Sox using your methodology of rating him.

    5) Before tonight's game the opponent's have a lower OPS with Salty(.665) catching than Ross (.679).

    Big 4 starters :(PA/ OPS)

                  w salty      w ross

    Lester (102) .559  (53) .687

    Buch     (90) .526   (79) .483

    Doub    (80) .698   (23) .570

    Demp   (74) .557   (48) .783

     

    Even if you throw out Salty's games with Wake in 2011, his WP+PB rate improved greatly from 2011 to 2012. He had one of the best rates in MLB last year in WP+PB/Innings.

    Salty is rated as a great pitch framer.

    Salty is a decent hitting catcher in the middle of the pack in catcher OPS.

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    I said Ross should start and the Red Sox bid against themselves on the base, but I sait it was still a decent value and good fit.

    Lies.

    You said we overpaid by double and that he would never stand up to a starter role.

    You flip and flop more than Barack.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    Salty fits in fine as the backup guy

    So...

    "Butchers" are "fine back-ups".

    Gott-cha!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to teddybaseball009's comment:

    In response to Tek-9's comment:

     

    yea I find you should never trust bleacher report. Theres too much noise mixed in with the real writers 

     




    Where did you get the pic to Ted in his Marine fighter. Wow, I was stunned. Way to go!!!!!

     

    In case you are interested, the TSW museum in Tampa has a few full colour pics of The Great Man in Korea. Luckily I have one authenticallysigned by Ted.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Report: Sox looking to upgrade at catcher, not happy with salty

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I said, before the season started, that Ross should be the starting catcher. Salty has always been a butcher, and fielding and throwing and catching and blocking the ball is the most important part of being a catcher. Calling pitches should come from the bench and the pitcher doing his homework.




    Ross blew me away Wednesday night.  I've never seen a catcher steal so many strikes.  It seemed like Ross had equal say in what was a strike.  Very , very impressive.

     

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