Rethinking 2013

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    moon,

    First off I respect your knowledge of the game and your well thought out post. you're among my favorites to debate with. I get that your intuitive enough to read between the lines and see the bigger picture of the manner and reasoning behind the moves made by the Red Sox. 

    why I'm engaging you is not to change your opinion Nor to get you to agree with mine or Cherington...We have a fundamental disagreement. I'm arguing my views and challenging yours. What spurred me to do so was the tone of your post of late have been hyper critical written with a glass half empty negetive slant.

    So if I'm trying to do anything it might be to get you to see some of the positive of the roster and to recognize that in remaking the team. Cherington is trying to field a team of players that we can be proud to support. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bean, you know I have always respected you and your opinions. 

    We disagree on this winter's overall strategy and choice of plan, but I have not gotten to the point of saying we should dump Ben or Larry. Ben deserves a chance to do his thing and let the results be the judge.

    We will be better than last year and will have a chance to mini- reboot over the next few years, since none of these guys are signed longterm. I see that as advantageous in many ways, but there is a nagging feeling that we just spent a lot of money and a few young players (in the Hanrahan deal) to get no player that opens my eyes and makes me smile about 2014, 2015 or beyond. I think that is a huge hole in the overall plan.

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps that's because the ideal players that fit that description have not presented themselves. We don't need prospects we need proven impact players...Typically that profile is acquired in free agency. See Manny, Arod or in trades where you pay a premium in talented prospects for established stars see Cabrera and Gonzalez...End of the day if Stanton is indeed on the market. I'd send them a list of our top prospects and tell them to pick any three and any combination of lower level prospects totaling two or they could have Doubrount Or Buccholz....

    [/QUOTE]

    Sometimes a player is not a big named player. Last winter, when I suggested we trade Reddick and others for Gio Gonzalez, I was met with the same arguments I am hearing now about Anderson, McCarthy, J Upton, Myers...

    There will always be risk.

    [/QUOTE]

    it's all in how you frame the aquisions. I too would like to see us make a play for Upton, if Stanton's off the board And he is indeed the best player we can acquire based on the value of the prospects in our system. then I say make the deal. 

    Not sure what you offered in your proposal for Gio along with Reddick but he too would've have been worth trading top prospects for. risk is assumed in almost every deal when your projecting future productivity without having proven track record of success at the big league level. risk is inherent in any deal's involving pitchers, both of injury and underperformance. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Remember that Gio had only had 2 seasons with barely over 200 IP, a career 1.410 WHIP, and almost a BB every 2 IP.

    I think I offered Reddick, Doubront and a lower level prospect.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon,

    First off I respect your knowledge of the game and your well thought out post. you're among my favorites to debate with. I get that your intuitive enough to read between the lines and see the bigger picture of the manner and reasoning behind the moves made by the Red Sox. 

    why I'm engaging you is not to change your opinion Nor to get you to agree with mine or Cherington...We have a fundamental disagreement. I'm arguing my views and challenging yours. What spurred me to do so was the tone of your post of late have been hyper critical written with a glass half empty negetive slant.

    So if I'm trying to do anything it might be to get you to see some of the positive of the roster and to recognize that in remaking the team. Cherington is trying to field a team of players that we can be proud to support. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bean, you know I have always respected you and your opinions. 

    We disagree on this winter's overall strategy and choice of plan, but I have not gotten to the point of saying we should dump Ben or Larry. Ben deserves a chance to do his thing and let the results be the judge.

    We will be better than last year and will have a chance to mini- reboot over the next few years, since none of these guys are signed longterm. I see that as advantageous in many ways, but there is a nagging feeling that we just spent a lot of money and a few young players (in the Hanrahan deal) to get no player that opens my eyes and makes me smile about 2014, 2015 or beyond. I think that is a huge hole in the overall plan.

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps that's because the ideal players that fit that description have not presented themselves. We don't need prospects we need proven impact players...Typically that profile is acquired in free agency. See Manny, Arod or in trades where you pay a premium in talented prospects for established stars see Cabrera and Gonzalez...End of the day if Stanton is indeed on the market. I'd send them a list of our top prospects and tell them to pick any three and any combination of lower level prospects totaling two or they could have Doubrount Or Buccholz....

    [/QUOTE]

    Sometimes a player is not a big named player. Last winter, when I suggested we trade Reddick and others for Gio Gonzalez, I was met with the same arguments I am hearing now about Anderson, McCarthy, J Upton, Myers...

    There will always be risk.

    [/QUOTE]

    it's all in how you frame the aquisions. I too would like to see us make a play for Upton, if Stanton's off the board And he is indeed the best player we can acquire based on the value of the prospects in our system. then I say make the deal. 

    Not sure what you offered in your proposal for Gio along with Reddick but he too would've have been worth trading top prospects for. risk is assumed in almost every deal when your projecting future productivity without having proven track record of success at the big league level. risk is inherent in any deal's involving pitchers, both of injury and underperformance. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Remember that Gio had only had 2 seasons with barely over 200 IP, a career 1.410 WHIP, and almost a BB every 2 IP.

    I think I offered Reddick, Doubront and a lower level prospect.

    [/QUOTE]

    My general stance is that up until a prospect makes the jump and shows that they can compete. i'd be open to dealing them the only caviat is with the blessing of my top baseball scouts. Your example of Giovis why I'm encouraged by the possibility of more from Doubront. Who's stuff is comparable. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So many great posters here with great ideas, suggestions, insights, and remedies. You however bury them all in a thread that started out with a thoughful admission by Ike. The thread is now 128 posts long. Buried in it is many great thoughts that will go into the forum garbage can in a few days because they are all in one thread. If you are indeed RS fans then why not start threads in order to dilute your intellect and logic over the whole front page instead of burying within a long thread? Spread your seeds of wisdom across a wider surface area.

    [/QUOTE]

    Who cares who started the thread. It ended up where we are at, until someone came along and diverted it from baseball.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon,

    First off I respect your knowledge of the game and your well thought out post. you're among my favorites to debate with. I get that your intuitive enough to read between the lines and see the bigger picture of the manner and reasoning behind the moves made by the Red Sox. 

    why I'm engaging you is not to change your opinion Nor to get you to agree with mine or Cherington...We have a fundamental disagreement. I'm arguing my views and challenging yours. What spurred me to do so was the tone of your post of late have been hyper critical written with a glass half empty negetive slant.

    So if I'm trying to do anything it might be to get you to see some of the positive of the roster and to recognize that in remaking the team. Cherington is trying to field a team of players that we can be proud to support. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bean, you know I have always respected you and your opinions. 

    We disagree on this winter's overall strategy and choice of plan, but I have not gotten to the point of saying we should dump Ben or Larry. Ben deserves a chance to do his thing and let the results be the judge.

    We will be better than last year and will have a chance to mini- reboot over the next few years, since none of these guys are signed longterm. I see that as advantageous in many ways, but there is a nagging feeling that we just spent a lot of money and a few young players (in the Hanrahan deal) to get no player that opens my eyes and makes me smile about 2014, 2015 or beyond. I think that is a huge hole in the overall plan.

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps that's because the ideal players that fit that description have not presented themselves. We don't need prospects we need proven impact players...Typically that profile is acquired in free agency. See Manny, Arod or in trades where you pay a premium in talented prospects for established stars see Cabrera and Gonzalez...End of the day if Stanton is indeed on the market. I'd send them a list of our top prospects and tell them to pick any three and any combination of lower level prospects totaling two or they could have Doubrount Or Buccholz....

    [/QUOTE]

    Sometimes a player is not a big named player. Last winter, when I suggested we trade Reddick and others for Gio Gonzalez, I was met with the same arguments I am hearing now about Anderson, McCarthy, J Upton, Myers...

    There will always be risk.

    [/QUOTE]

    it's all in how you frame the aquisions. I too would like to see us make a play for Upton, if Stanton's off the board And he is indeed the best player we can acquire based on the value of the prospects in our system. then I say make the deal. 

    Not sure what you offered in your proposal for Gio along with Reddick but he too would've have been worth trading top prospects for. risk is assumed in almost every deal when your projecting future productivity without having proven track record of success at the big league level. risk is inherent in any deal's involving pitchers, both of injury and underperformance. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Remember that Gio had only had 2 seasons with barely over 200 IP, a career 1.410 WHIP, and almost a BB every 2 IP.

    I think I offered Reddick, Doubront and a lower level prospect.

    [/QUOTE]

    My general stance is that up until a prospect makes the jump and shows that they can compete. i'd be open to dealing them the only caviat is with the blessing of my top baseball scouts. Your example of Giovis why I'm encouraged by the possibility of more from Doubront. Who's stuff is comparable. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTChris. Show CTChris's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Tazawa too. My only thoughts on him as a starter would be to NOT do with him what they did with Bard. Which is to say, that if the long term plan for Tazawa is to make him a starter, then get the process going by sending him back to AAA to get aclimated to the starters role again. Don't attempt that transition at the Major League level. That IMO was the biggest mistake they made with Bard last season. I know that budgetary reasons came into play with the decision to have Bard in the ML rotation last season, but I think it put unnecessary pressure on the guy to perform in a role that he hadn't occupied in several years.

    He may well have failed at the AAA level as a starter too, but I think less harm would have been done to both he and the Red Sox by going about it that way.

    As it stands now, I like Tazawa in the Bullpen, but if we are going to keep and not trade Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara or Aceves, then this might be a good time to see what Tazawa has as a starter in Pawtucket. Granted, our BP looks better with Tazawa in it, but considering the others already slated to be there, I'm not sure he's a necessay piece and this might be an opportunity to see what he can do.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to CTChris' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Tazawa too. My only thoughts on him as a starter would be to NOT do with him what they did with Bard. Which is to say, that if the long term plan for Tazawa is to make him a starter, then get the process going by sending him back to AAA to get aclimated to the starters role again. Don't attempt that transition at the Major League level. That IMO was the biggest mistake they made with Bard last season. I know that budgetary reasons came into play with the decision to have Bard in the ML rotation last season, but I think it put unnecessary pressure on the guy to perform in a role that he hadn't occupied in several years.

    He may well have failed at the AAA level as a starter too, but I think less harm would have been done to both he and the Red Sox by going about it that way.

    As it stands now, I like Tazawa in the Bullpen, but if we are going to keep and not trade Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara or Aceves, then this might be a good time to see what Tazawa has as a starter in Pawtucket. Granted, our BP looks better with Tazawa in it, but considering the others already slated to be there, I'm not sure he's a necessay piece and this might be an opportunity to see what he can do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Taz should start in AAA and be the ready to start in MLB by June. I doubt this happens.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    Let's rethink what this winter did to specifically help us out in 2014, 2015 and beyond other than not losing draft choices or signing good enough players to long term deals that will block prospects.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let's rethink what this winter did to specifically help us out in 2014, 2015 and beyond other than not losing draft choices or signing good enough players to long term deals that will block prospects.

    [/QUOTE]

    Some of this is a matter of interpretation.  Does Napoli, assuming he's signed, count as helping us out in 2014 or 2015?  Based on your previous posts my impression is that you say no because there's an assumption he'll be 'in decline'.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    Some of this is a matter of interpretation.  Does Napoli, assuming he's signed, count as helping us out in 2014 or 2015?  Based on your previous posts my impression is that you say no because there's an assumption he'll be 'in decline'.

     I'd say Napoli and Victorino probably will be slightly helpful in 2014, and even more slightly by 2015, but at their costs, I see them as taking up too much budget space for what they bring to filling our needs. They both have potential to be better than I expect, and we did need a 1Bman and RF/CF'er, but our biggest needs were to get a top 45 SP AND a solid 3/4 slot hitter. Ideally, we could have filled the 1B or OF opening with a player that solves the middle of the order issue, but I realize the pickings were slim and highly over-priced (money wise or in prospects surrendered).

    Of course, anyone would rather have a player entering his prime going into 2014 and 2015 than at the end or past it, right? I get your point though, the way I worded my point made it sound like Naps and Shane are useless for the last 2 years of their deals. They both should be better than replacement level players, but for $26M combined, I'd rather not have them for 2014-2015.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CTChris' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Tazawa too. My only thoughts on him as a starter would be to NOT do with him what they did with Bard. Which is to say, that if the long term plan for Tazawa is to make him a starter, then get the process going by sending him back to AAA to get aclimated to the starters role again. Don't attempt that transition at the Major League level. That IMO was the biggest mistake they made with Bard last season. I know that budgetary reasons came into play with the decision to have Bard in the ML rotation last season, but I think it put unnecessary pressure on the guy to perform in a role that he hadn't occupied in several years.

    He may well have failed at the AAA level as a starter too, but I think less harm would have been done to both he and the Red Sox by going about it that way.

    As it stands now, I like Tazawa in the Bullpen, but if we are going to keep and not trade Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara or Aceves, then this might be a good time to see what Tazawa has as a starter in Pawtucket. Granted, our BP looks better with Tazawa in it, but considering the others already slated to be there, I'm not sure he's a necessay piece and this might be an opportunity to see what he can do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Taz should start in AAA and be the ready to start in MLB by June. I doubt this happens.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would think baring a trade or say Lackey beginning the year on the DL the numbers suggest that  Someone has to go. Since Tazawa stil has options it would seem logical that he'd start the season in AAA.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CTChris' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Tazawa too. My only thoughts on him as a starter would be to NOT do with him what they did with Bard. Which is to say, that if the long term plan for Tazawa is to make him a starter, then get the process going by sending him back to AAA to get aclimated to the starters role again. Don't attempt that transition at the Major League level. That IMO was the biggest mistake they made with Bard last season. I know that budgetary reasons came into play with the decision to have Bard in the ML rotation last season, but I think it put unnecessary pressure on the guy to perform in a role that he hadn't occupied in several years.

    He may well have failed at the AAA level as a starter too, but I think less harm would have been done to both he and the Red Sox by going about it that way.

    As it stands now, I like Tazawa in the Bullpen, but if we are going to keep and not trade Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara or Aceves, then this might be a good time to see what Tazawa has as a starter in Pawtucket. Granted, our BP looks better with Tazawa in it, but considering the others already slated to be there, I'm not sure he's a necessay piece and this might be an opportunity to see what he can do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Taz should start in AAA and be the ready to start in MLB by June. I doubt this happens.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would think baring a trade or say Lackey beginning the year on the DL the numbers suggest that  Someone has to go. Since Tazawa stil has options it would seem logical that he'd start the season in AAA.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    Moon, I think it's more likely that Napoli and Victorino will be gone by 2015 and the new kids will be here. I think Ben's failure, (your impression, not mine) to add pieces that will help in 2014-2015 is both a matter of who's available and if there are people available at what cost and will they be any better than we project our kids to be. I believe Ben places more value on the players already in our system, hence the rush to add "bridge" players like Nap and Vic and the like on  short-term deals and not make trades that raid our farm system. I don't think any of the players in the Hanrahan deal were very highly thought of.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Moon, I think it's more likely that Napoli and Victorino will be gone by 2015 and the new kids will be here. I think Ben's failure, (your impression, not mine) to add pieces that will help in 2014-2015 is both a matter of who's available and if there are people available at what cost and will they be any better than we project our kids to be. I believe Ben places more value on the players already in our system, hence the rush to add "bridge" players like Nap and Vic and the like on  short-term deals and not make trades that raid our farm system. I don't think any of the players in the Hanrahan deal were very highly thought of.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree that this was the reasoning by Ben, I just disagree with his ordering of priorities. I do think Victorino and/or Naps may be traded by 2015, and I understand that we may gain from that, and that we would not have gotten these two by offering 1-2 year deals. Before the failed physical on Naps, I thought he was a good fit- though overpaid.

    I think Melancon is better than many here believe. He was also under team control for 4 years vs 1 of Hanrahan... a year we are very unlikely to seriously compete.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So many great posters here with great ideas, suggestions, insights, and remedies. You however bury them all in a thread that started out with a thoughful admission by Ike. The thread is now 128 posts long. Buried in it is many great thoughts that will go into the forum garbage can in a few days because they are all in one thread. If you are indeed RS fans then why not start threads in order to dilute your intellect and logic over the whole front page instead of burying within a long thread? Spread your seeds of wisdom across a wider surface area.

    [/QUOTE]

    Had you taken the time to actually read through Moon and I's debate. You would find that it is actually in the spirit of the authors theme. I challenge the tenor and the substance of his views and he defended his position. Never once did our exchange digress into personal attacks. 

    Not sure if you're being complimentary or critical of, but every thread has a life span of a few days. Ali welcome to join in at any time and so too are you....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CTChris' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]
    Doubront really bummed me out when he came to camp out of shape in 2011. I had high expectation for him, and felt let down. He looked good at times last year, and he does have fine stuff, but the guys I have suggested trading Doubront for are surer bets.

    I like Tazawa more.

    [/QUOTE]

    I like Tazawa too. My only thoughts on him as a starter would be to NOT do with him what they did with Bard. Which is to say, that if the long term plan for Tazawa is to make him a starter, then get the process going by sending him back to AAA to get aclimated to the starters role again. Don't attempt that transition at the Major League level. That IMO was the biggest mistake they made with Bard last season. I know that budgetary reasons came into play with the decision to have Bard in the ML rotation last season, but I think it put unnecessary pressure on the guy to perform in a role that he hadn't occupied in several years.

    He may well have failed at the AAA level as a starter too, but I think less harm would have been done to both he and the Red Sox by going about it that way.

    As it stands now, I like Tazawa in the Bullpen, but if we are going to keep and not trade Hanrahan, Bailey, Uehara or Aceves, then this might be a good time to see what Tazawa has as a starter in Pawtucket. Granted, our BP looks better with Tazawa in it, but considering the others already slated to be there, I'm not sure he's a necessay piece and this might be an opportunity to see what he can do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Taz should start in AAA and be the ready to start in MLB by June. I doubt this happens.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would think baring a trade or say Lackey beginning the year on the DL the numbers suggest that  Someone has to go. Since Tazawa stil has options it would seem logical that he'd start the season in AAA.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

    [/QUOTE]

    Win as in compete for a Championship? Or do you see them as a sub .500 club? I too doubt they'll as comprised without a ton if's falling our way be a legit contender. I can see them being in the hunt for the second wild card spot....which I'll place the over-under @ 90 wins. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

    [/QUOTE]

    Win as in compete for a Championship? Or do you see them as a sub .500 club? I too doubt they'll as comprised without a ton if's falling our way be a legit contender. I can see them being in the hunt for the second wild card spot....which I'll place the over-under @ 90 wins. 

    Vitually no chance for a ring.

    Maybe slightly better than a 50% chance to be over .500, mostly due to the toughest schedule in MLB.

    I'd put their over/under at 84 wins. (That's 15 more than last year.)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

    [/QUOTE]

    Win as in compete for a Championship? Or do you see them as a sub .500 club? I too doubt they'll as comprised without a ton if's falling our way be a legit contender. I can see them being in the hunt for the second wild card spot....which I'll place the over-under @ 90 wins. 

    Vitually no chance for a ring.

    Maybe slightly better than a 50% chance to be over .500, mostly due to the toughest schedule in MLB.

    I'd put their over/under at 84 wins. (That's 15 more than last year.)

    [/QUOTE]

    84 keeps them in the hunt well into September and if they're in it entering June with the core healthy....who knows maybe they look at adding that big bat or arm?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

    [/QUOTE]

    Win as in compete for a Championship? Or do you see them as a sub .500 club? I too doubt they'll as comprised without a ton if's falling our way be a legit contender. I can see them being in the hunt for the second wild card spot....which I'll place the over-under @ 90 wins. 

    Vitually no chance for a ring.

    Maybe slightly better than a 50% chance to be over .500, mostly due to the toughest schedule in MLB.

    I'd put their over/under at 84 wins. (That's 15 more than last year.)

    [/QUOTE]

    84 keeps them in the hunt well into September and if they're in it entering June with the core healthy....who knows maybe they look at adding that big bat or arm?

    [/QUOTE]

    It could also keep them from making a move that could really help them: dumping players that will not be helping us in 2014 and/or beyond for helpful prospects.

    Also, if you think teams are overpaying for FAs and players through trades now, it usually gets much worse during the panic times of the July deadline, and mostly all you get are 2 month rentals or high-priced salary dumps.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree, and since I don't think we can win in 2013, I don't have an issue with keeping the best pitcher out of Lackey, Doubront, Tazawa, Morales, and Mortensen in AAA to start the year.

    However, I think the Sox will choose to keep him in the pen.

    [/QUOTE]

    Win as in compete for a Championship? Or do you see them as a sub .500 club? I too doubt they'll as comprised without a ton if's falling our way be a legit contender. I can see them being in the hunt for the second wild card spot....which I'll place the over-under @ 90 wins. 

    Vitually no chance for a ring.

    Maybe slightly better than a 50% chance to be over .500, mostly due to the toughest schedule in MLB.

    I'd put their over/under at 84 wins. (That's 15 more than last year.)

    [/QUOTE]

    84 keeps them in the hunt well into September and if they're in it entering June with the core healthy....who knows maybe they look at adding that big bat or arm?

    [/QUOTE]

    It could also keep them from making a move that could really help them: dumping players that will not be helping us in 2014 and/or beyond for helpful prospects.

    Also, if you think teams are overpaying for FAs and players through trades now, it usually gets much worse during the panic times of the July deadline, and mostly all you get are 2 month rentals or high-priced salary dumps.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure that I agree...If they add a player it would be with both the present and future in mind. If they trade multiple prospects for an impact player a condition of deal would include some sort of contract extension. unless the player they'd acquire was already under contract or in the case of say Upton still under the teams control for 3 seasons...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    It could also keep them from making a move that could really help them: dumping players that will not be helping us in 2014 and/or beyond for helpful prospects.

    Also, if you think teams are overpaying for FAs and players through trades now, it usually gets much worse during the panic times of the July deadline, and mostly all you get are 2 month rentals or high-priced salary dumps.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure that I agree...If they add a player it would be with both the present and future in mind. If they trade multiple prospects for an impact player a condition of deal would include some sort of contract extension. unless the player they'd acquire was already under contract or in the case of say Upton still under the teams control for 3 seasons...

    Yes, we can get someone in July, but they will not be cheaper than now and we will not have them for the first 4 months of the season.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So many great posters here with great ideas, suggestions, insights, and remedies. You however bury them all in a thread that started out with a thoughful admission by Ike. The thread is now 128 posts long. Buried in it is many great thoughts that will go into the forum garbage can in a few days because they are all in one thread. If you are indeed RS fans then why not start threads in order to dilute your intellect and logic over the whole front page instead of burying within a long thread? Spread your seeds of wisdom across a wider surface area.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is what I was talking about. How many posts in a row were about baseball on this thread, until you had to get personal and try to hijack the thread. Luckily, nobody took the bait this time.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    Great! Another nonbaseball post on a good thread.

    Wow!

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

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