Rethinking 2013

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to CTChris's comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to CTChris's comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    GM CT,

    Let's talk some ball and get this thread back on track...

    Moon and I tried to start a discusion about the aquisition of Stanton. I framed the question to him of what he thought it would take to get the Marlins to listen. Obviously the cost of aquision in quality and quantity of prospect will be prohibitive. However if your serious about aquiring a young impact player with a proven ML resume that still under the teams control. You have to pay the piper. I'm thinkling along the lines of the deal made by the Braves to aquire Texiera total of 5

    The basic framework of the deal would comprise of 2 pitchers and 3 position players...

    Pick one:Barnes or Doubront

    Pick one: Ranaundo or Britton

    Pick one: Bogharts, Bradley, Iglesias

    Pick Two: Then give them a list of all of our A ball players and give them the choice of two not named Swiihart or Marrero.

    Thoughts?




    I'm probably a bad person to ask BT. Simply because I hate giving up pitching (even prospects) for position players. Granted, if the "position player" we're talking about is the missing piece that puts us over the top, then fine..........but I still kinda cringe at it :-).

    As far as Stanton goes, I think once he has the track record that Mark Texiera had prior to his trade, then what you're talking about is most likely in line with what he would be worth. However, until he has that "pedigree" I wouldn't give up the amount you're offering.



    Well said, I'm of the mindset that prospects are used to enhance the ability of the ML club to compete. Either by they themsleves making the jump and being productive or to used as assests to fill a void on the roster. End of the day given our current roster. Why I would be willing to morgage the future, is becasue it's the future that we're trying to retool this club for...Adding an impact bat like Stanton's at the cost of replaceable assets (prospects). Would give us a player along with Middlebrooks to build the lineup around. While Stanton might not have the track record of Texiera. He is a player that projects to be among the best in the near term with HOF potential....



    The future is what I'm thinking about as well. However, there are different ways to view the future (which I assume is why there is so much disagreement about how to approach it). For instance, what you see as a guy to build a club around in exchange for 5 players, I can easily see 5 guys that could all project to be ML players who we will have under control for 6 years once their ML clock starts ticking.......in exchange for one player who's clock started already.

    Like I inferred earlier........that better be one heck of a player we're trading for and IMO he better be a guy to put us over the top. As constructed presently, IMO the Sox are more than 1 player away from being considered "favorites" of any kind. I also think that the type of players that will help get us to that status the quickest are going to be Pitchers, not position players.

    So again, my bias comes into play when I'm asked if I would be interested in trading pitching for a position player. Maybe in the future if/when we have the rotation that sets us apart from the majority of other teams I'll be more receptive.....until then, not so much. That said, I admit that there is no right or wrong answer here.......only opinions. My current opinion is influenced by what I see as our need to get the rotation in order before we go looking for an OFer w/a bat. LOL but if there is a way to do both, I'm all for it.




    I know pitching is our number one need, but Stanton is a once in a decade opportunity knocking. We can address the pitching in another trade or a FA signing next winter.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    The forum is now 99% negative since Moonslav is now a chronic wet blanket.  I suggest that all Sox fans go to the beach this year and forget about the Sox.  It is all over, Woe is me, you heard it from Moonslav. No need neither to visit this forum. It is over,  Woe is me.




    Just because I think we have next to no chance to win it all this year, does not mean I will not watch every single pitch of every single game, root hard for my beloved Sox team, and go on discussing my team. I've been a fan through much worse than this.

    Why don't you just try to make 5 straight posts in your own words about just baseball. That's a good start. I know it will be hard, but can you try?

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    I'd like to thank BeanBag.... I mean Beantowne for lumping me in with pike, sherrif, and kim. I am going to jump off a cliff now..... 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTChris. Show CTChris's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    I know pitching is our number one need, but Stanton is a once in a decade opportunity knocking. We can address the pitching in another trade or a FA signing next winter.


    Sure, because we all know that quality Pitchers are a dime a dozen that we can pick up next winter......:-)

    Seriously, (and yes, I was just pulling your chain and making a point at the same time) while this  has been a decent hypothetical discussion, doesn't most of what we've heard tell us that there is a very, very slim chance that the Marlins would consider moving Stanton this season?

    This may be a more viable debate next winter when we can see what kind of pitching may be available (via trade or FA) and then compare that talent to what Stanton would bring. In all honestly this really isn't an either / or type decision that may need to be made. The truth is we could use both and the order in which we acquire them (a bat vs pitching) really doesn't matter as long as they wind up on the same team within the next year or so.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I'd like to thank BeanBag.... I mean Beantowne for lumping me in with pike, sherrif, and kim. I am going to jump off a cliff now..... 



    I'll vouch for you Burrito...you're nothing like pike or kim.  Neither is sheriff.

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Perhaps I have been too harsh on young Ben being blinded by my thinking only star players can help this team win. I suppose I jumped on the entitlement bandwagon, as I believe many have since 2007, including the players.

    A complete makeover was necessary for this team and I now believe that's what Ben is trying to do. IMO, 3 key elements have been missing since our championship in2007, which are; heart, character, and chemistry

    The players that Ben has acquired are by no means stars but I think these may be the guys that can restore some of those 3 intangibles. These guys also want to prove that they still belong and can contribute in a big way.

    I have failed to be a team player and for that, I apologize. I would love to see another 2004 season.




    Not gonna read this entire thread (which seems to have descended into various battles between the usual suspects, as most that go past 1 page seem to), but props to you, Alibiike, for not only reconsidering your previous opinions but for coming out and saying so.

    One thing I'm sure of so far is that the 2013 team should be a lot more fun to watch than the cauldron of misery and bitterness that has been Red Sox baseball since September 2011. Whether that will mean 90-plus wins and a playoff spot, I can't say, nor can anyone at this juncture; we have a long list of question marks, to be sure, but I think this will be a very solid team and may surprise a lot of the naysayers. While guys like Napoli, Victorino, Dempster, and Drew aren't stars, as you mentioned, we've managed to fill all our holes with solid veteran talent, and I think these guys may bring more to the table than people expect. I have concerns about some of the moves that have been made, and all have been analyzed to death around here, but at a certain point I think you have to lay all of that aside, force yourself to see the glass as half full for a change, let a little good old 'polyanna/bootlicker' optimism take over, and just cheer on your team. (Otherwise, you run the risk of becoming one of those sad posters who becomes obsessed with seeing certain players fail because they want to be proven right and to be able to say "Look, I told you so!")

    For my part, for some reason I feel more excited about this season than I have been in several years. Maybe it's because it feels like a fresh start and a clean slate of sorts; maybe the whole mess of 2012 was cathartic; maybe a lot of bad karma was expelled last fall along with the big contracts and Bobby Valentine; maybe after 2004 and 2007, we had all gotten a little spoiled and entitled, and the baseball gods wanted to knock some humility back into us. I don't know. But at the end of the day, I feel that things are back on the upswing in Red Sox Nation, and I wouldn't miss it.

    I have no idea how 2013 will turn out or what the W-L will be, and I think that's part of the fun of a new season - knowing that a thousand things, good and bad, will transpire between now and October that no statistical analysis by Bill James, or the most "realistic look" here on BDC, could have predicted. There will be plenty of time, if things go wrong, to pillory Cherington for signing a bunch of bums, and there will be 162 game threads to scrutinize every lineup Farrell posts and every pitching change he makes.

    But right now, I'm just ready for spring training.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to CTChris' comment:

    I know pitching is our number one need, but Stanton is a once in a decade opportunity knocking. We can address the pitching in another trade or a FA signing next winter.


    Sure, because we all know that quality Pitchers are a dime a dozen that we can pick up next winter......:-)

    Seriously, (and yes, I was just pulling your chain and making a point at the same time) while this  has been a decent hypothetical discussion, doesn't most of what we've heard tell us that there is a very, very slim chance that the Marlins would consider moving Stanton this season?

    This may be a more viable debate next winter when we can see what kind of pitching may be available (via trade or FA) and then compare that talent to what Stanton would bring. In all honestly this really isn't an either / or type decision that may need to be made. The truth is we could use both and the order in which we acquire them (a bat vs pitching) really doesn't matter as long as they wind up on the same team within the next year or so.



    I didn't say I thought we'd get Stanton this winter, but only that he is a difference maker worth going extreme over.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I thought you said you'd come to this thread to see how you took it off track. Instead, you have come here to continue nonbaseball tangents.

    Look in the mirror...long and hard.

    Keep baseball threads about baseball. Is that such a hard thing to do for someone who is hypersensitive about trolls, Ben-bashers and pessimists?

    Do what you asked me to do on your thread: go back and see who took this thread off baseball...

    Cue sound of crickets....



    It's fairy clear the intent of Edith, Kimsaysthesamethings, Burrito, the Sherif, along with Salty is to dilute this discusion and drive it off the board. Pretty juvenille if you ask me. Fear not, dispite there intent. I'll continue to try to sift through all of thier diatribes and non-sensical comments that lend nothing to the thread and stick to discussing baseball.

    Baseball Fever..Catch it!

     

     




    I'm looking all over your post and I don't see any Yankee fan/troll mentioned. It's all Sox fans ruining the board. I think I had you pegged correctly. It's definitely interesting that so many threads were ruined by Yankee trolls, but you decided to take a stand here, where very few Yankee trolls showed up. FTR that wasn't lost on me.

    And if "CTChris" or whatever and his pals from the other board don't want my comments to follow their remarks, perhaps they should leave my name out of them instead of putting up slamming posts. Just a thought. Btw I have a feeling "Chris" from the other board will turn into what he was truly meant to be here. Including my name in his argument tells me all I need to know about him.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I'd like to thank BeanBag.... I mean Beantowne for lumping me in with pike, sherrif, and kim. I am going to jump off a cliff now..... 




    It's amazing to me with so many Softy haters here, you never seem to wind up lumped in with him even though you're his BFF.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanCap. Show SanCap's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    It continues to surprises me that the tenor of most of threads continue to be very critical and pessimistic. The odds of the Sox making the playoffs or winning the World Series in 2013 are low and that shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us. What I find puzzling is not the prediction of gloom. More so the lack of understanding of the complexities of retooling a club and the amount of work Cherington has to do to return the team to being among the best in the game. 

    News flash it might be time for many of you to rethink our short term expectations of this team. Cherington is charged with a pretty daunting task and if we the fans are in a championship or bust  mindset. We're all in for a very long season...

    My only hope for 2013 is that the players show up to the park everyday, play hard and leave it on the field. while conducting themselves like professionals. I'm done with the drama that has been this team for the better part of the last 4 years. I'd like to got to bed every night this season knowing that the reason we lost was due to being outplayed by the opposition. Not because the players and the manager put their selfish needs ahead of the team...

    Hope springs eternal....I can't wait to see Middlebrooks swing the bat and hopefully he lives up to the hype and answers one of the many questions related to the retooling of this team...I'm equally excited to see if Lester can return to form and prove to himself and his detractors that 2012 was just a blip on the screen. I get excited thinking about following the progress of our top prospects and I'd love to see a couple of our guys make the jump and get their shot to fulfill what for many is a lifetime dream of wearing a big league uniform. baseball fever, catch it!



    Exactly my sentiments.  Enjoy baseball and hope my team does well.  They'll win more than they lose, and some will get rained out.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTChris. Show CTChris's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    And if "CTChris" or whatever and his pals from the other board don't want my comments to follow their remarks, perhaps they should leave my name out of them instead of putting up slamming posts. Just a thought. Btw I have a feeling "Chris" from the other board will turn into what he was truly meant to be here. Including my name in his argument tells me all I need to know about him.

    Please tell, what was this so called "slamming post" I made regarding you? I have simply repeated the truth to explain why I was hesitant in returning to this board.

    The fact of the matter is you slammed me way before I ever mentioned you in a post. You called me a Yankee Troll in my very first post back here. That was in response to a post I made that found humor in the irony of something you said. Remember? You were sure Drew wouldn't sign with the Red Sox and then less than a minuter or 2 later, the news broke that Drew did indeed agree to sign with the Red Sox. Excuse me for finding a little humor in that. Truth be known, if the shoe were on the other foot and I was the one who said he wouldn't sign with us and then 60 seconds later he agreed to sign with us I would have laughed at myself and probably said something along the lines of "There ya go. See what I know?"

    For the record Kim, for someone that constantly complains about Yankees posters and trolls on this board, you sure do a decent job of trying to run off people that only want to discuss the Red Sox yourself. It may be a good time to look in the mirror.

    Oh, and btw......Congrats. You've now totaled 7 posts on this thread that have absolutely NOTHING to do with baseball. It's becoming pretty clear to me that you either A) Know nothing about the game......or B) Have no interest in discussing what you do know, but would rather be a moderator of others.

    So, I have what seems to be a few fair questions to ask of you.

    Why are YOU on a Red Sox baseball discussion board? To police others or to discuss baseball?

    What is your definition of a troll and does it have anything to do with people looking to start issues that have nothing to do with the Red Sox or baseball discussion?

    Don't worry, I won't have a reply back to you. From now on I'll limit my posts to the baseball discussion at hand, but I had to ask you those questions at least once.....and to again suggest that maybe you should look in the mirror while calling others names a labeling them as one thing or another.

    Just a thought. Have a great day.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    Can we get back to baseball & rethinking 2013?

    Here's a couple starters ("talk among yourselves"):

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.

    2) Napoli's signing will spell the end of Salty's tenure with the Sox.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can we get back to baseball & rethinking 2013?

    Here's a couple starters ("talk among yourselves"):

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.

    2) Napoli's signing will spell the end of Salty's tenure with the Sox.

     




    I'll play, Moon. With Napolis bad hip, the majority of playing time will be at first, no?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can we get back to baseball & rethinking 2013?

    Here's a couple starters ("talk among yourselves"):

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.

    2) Napoli's signing will spell the end of Salty's tenure with the Sox.

     




    I'll play, Moon. With Napolis bad hip, the majority of playing time will be at first, no?



    True enough. Then, there's always Lava to play vs LHPs, and DH if Papi goes down.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can we get back to baseball & rethinking 2013?

    Here's a couple starters ("talk among yourselves"):

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.

    2) Napoli's signing will spell the end of Salty's tenure with the Sox.

     




    I'll play, Moon. With Napolis bad hip, the majority of playing time will be at first, no?



    True enough. Then, there's always Lava to play vs LHPs, and DH if Papi goes down.



    With Napoli's hip issue, it changed the dynamic of the contract,  but the fact remains, they don't need 3.5 catchers.  Which one be traded or delagated to AAA, at least to start the season?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Can we get back to baseball & rethinking 2013?

    Here's a couple starters ("talk among yourselves"):

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.

    2) Napoli's signing will spell the end of Salty's tenure with the Sox.

     




    I'll play, Moon. With Napolis bad hip, the majority of playing time will be at first, no?



    True enough. Then, there's always Lava to play vs LHPs, and DH if Papi goes down.



    With Napoli's hip issue, it changed the dynamic of the contract,  but the fact remains, they don't need 3.5 catchers.  Which one be traded or delagated to AAA, at least to start the season?




    lava lava lava. i don't see them giving up on salty after the work we've put in to him. he is really coming into his own also. If salty continues to improve then lava will be made a 1Bman or get traded. pretty exciting stuff

     

    CTC im with ya on kim. it is really sad when someone spends all their free time trying to police a forum and not even add a single drop of significant discussion to the equation. tsk tsk

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.



    Youth Movement is just a slogan.  Ben and the FO have made a serious effort at increasing the stock of young talent with a) prospects acquired from Dodgers; b) not trading any prospects except Sands who we acquired from Dodgers; c) not giving up draft picks with free agent acquisitions.

    Humorists might add d) really stinking last year to get higher picks in this year's draft.   

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    1) Ben's Youth Movement is neither youthful nor a movement.



    Youth Movement is just a slogan.  Ben and the FO have made a serious effort at increasing the stock of young talent with a) prospects acquired from Dodgers; b) not trading any prospects except Sands who we acquired from Dodgers; c) not giving up draft picks with free agent acquisitions.

    Humorists might add d) really stinking last year to get higher picks in this year's draft.   



    Not sure that the spelling is correct, tochez! That's poor French for d) is very funny! 

    e) if Hanrahan leaves after next season we'll net a pick for him too...

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I'd like to thank BeanBag.... I mean Beantowne for lumping me in with pike, sherrif, and kim. I am going to jump off a cliff now..... 



    Burrito,

    i lumped you in with them because you and the others all interrupted a very good baseball discussion with meaningless banter...then you reply with a childish remark "beanbag" Come on man...if you want to debate or enter into a dialog with me, please do so using adult language and if you disagree with me or take exception to my comment, feel free to add to the discussion and or go start another of your sky is falling the Red Sox stink Threads....

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to CTChris' comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to CTChris's comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    GM CT,

    Let's talk some ball and get this thread back on track...

    Moon and I tried to start a discusion about the aquisition of Stanton. I framed the question to him of what he thought it would take to get the Marlins to listen. Obviously the cost of aquision in quality and quantity of prospect will be prohibitive. However if your serious about aquiring a young impact player with a proven ML resume that still under the teams control. You have to pay the piper. I'm thinkling along the lines of the deal made by the Braves to aquire Texiera total of 5

    The basic framework of the deal would comprise of 2 pitchers and 3 position players...

    Pick one:Barnes or Doubront

    Pick one: Ranaundo or Britton

    Pick one: Bogharts, Bradley, Iglesias

    Pick Two: Then give them a list of all of our A ball players and give them the choice of two not named Swiihart or Marrero.

    Thoughts?




    I'm probably a bad person to ask BT. Simply because I hate giving up pitching (even prospects) for position players. Granted, if the "position player" we're talking about is the missing piece that puts us over the top, then fine..........but I still kinda cringe at it :-).

    As far as Stanton goes, I think once he has the track record that Mark Texiera had prior to his trade, then what you're talking about is most likely in line with what he would be worth. However, until he has that "pedigree" I wouldn't give up the amount you're offering.



    Well said, I'm of the mindset that prospects are used to enhance the ability of the ML club to compete. Either by they themsleves making the jump and being productive or to used as assests to fill a void on the roster. End of the day given our current roster. Why I would be willing to morgage the future, is becasue it's the future that we're trying to retool this club for...Adding an impact bat like Stanton's at the cost of replaceable assets (prospects). Would give us a player along with Middlebrooks to build the lineup around. While Stanton might not have the track record of Texiera. He is a player that projects to be among the best in the near term with HOF potential....



    The future is what I'm thinking about as well. However, there are different ways to view the future (which I assume is why there is so much disagreement about how to approach it). For instance, what you see as a guy to build a club around in exchange for 5 players, I can easily see as 5 guys that could all project to be ML players who we will have under control for 6 years once their ML clock starts ticking.......in exchange for one player who's clock started already.

    Like I inferred earlier........that better be one heck of a player we're trading for and IMO he better be a guy to put us over the top. As constructed presently, IMO the Sox are more than 1 player away from being considered "favorites" of any kind. I also think that the type of players that will help get us to that status the quickest are going to be Pitchers, not position players.

    So again, my bias comes into play when I'm asked if I would be interested in trading pitching for a position player. Maybe in the future if/when we have the rotation that sets us apart from the majority of other teams I'll be more receptive.....until then, not so much. That said, I admit that there is no right or wrong answer here.......only opinions. My current opinion is influenced by what I see as our need to get the rotation in order before we go looking for an OFer w/a bat. LOL but if there is a way to do both, I'm all for it.



    I took a few years after we acquired Manny to surround him with a championship caliber lineup. Stanton represents that type of hitter. We're never going to have a roster with every player in his prime...the trick is to build the rosteri so your key guys are in their primes then surround them with complimentary players. that's what Epstein was trying to do with Gonzalez...adding him to a lineup with Ellsbury, Pedrioa and Crawford all in their primes with Youk and Ortiz the grey beards...where he erred was in his assumption that Beckett and Lester would both be top of the rotation guys similar to the Pedro/Schilling dynamic in 2004. To lead the staff in the post season.

    Conversley the question tht begs to be answered is do we have a position player or pitcher current in our system who projects to be an impact bat or a big game pitcher...My feeling based on everything I've read is the answer is maybe Bogharts or Barnes...To me if's and might be, could be, falls short of definitely will be...Which is why I'm of the mind that we will need to acquire by trade or FA impact players and if we have to sell the farm...I'll help puof up the for sale sign on Yawkey way....

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Rethinking 2013

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I'd like to thank BeanBag.... I mean Beantowne for lumping me in with pike, sherrif, and kim. I am going to jump off a cliff now..... 



    Burrito,

    i lumped you in with them because you and the others all interrupted a very good baseball discussion with meaningless banter...then you reply with a childish remark "beanbag" Come on man...if you want to debate or enter into a dialog with me, please do so using adult language and if you disagree with me or take exception to my comment, feel free to add to the discussion and or go start another of your sky is falling the Red Sox stink Threads....

     



    I understand... really I do. Calling you "beanbag" is harldy fighting words. 

    You should learn to skim... I had no idea you were having a personal one on one with moon in the midst of a thread that was started by either of you. 

    If anything you could have blitzed right over the posters you don't care for. 

    Thank you.

     
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