Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Dodgers manager Don Mattingly said Thursday that Carl Crawford (hamstring) is "getting closer to going out on a rehab assignment."

    Crawford, who is recovering from a left hamstring strain, has progressed to running curves at the team's spring training complex and is evidently close to game-ready. The Dodgers expect Crawford back in the lineup prior to the All-Star break.

     

     

     

     

    Josh Beckett (arm) began playing catch on Wednesday.

    It's the first time he's thrown since being diagnosed with a nerve issue in his pitching arm a month ago. Beckett is optimistic that he can return to pitch this season, but the possibility of season-ending surgery is there if he doesn't feel right while ramping up his throwing program.
     

     

     

     

     

    Adrian Gonzalez | First Baseman

    Adrian Gonzalez went 1-for-4 with his ninth homer of the season against the Padres on Saturday.
    The homer came in the sixth inning and was the Dodgers' first hit of the game off Padres starter Edinson Volquez. Despite the relatively low home run count, Gonzalez has 46 RBI to go with the nine bombs this year. Jun 22 - 10:43 PM
     

     

     

    Nick Punto (back) went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts in his return to the Dodgers' lineup Wednesday.
    Punto sat out Tuesday's game after making an early exit Monday with a stiff lower back. The veteran infielder is hitting .315 with a .789 OPS in 41 games this season.
     
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Makes the BRINKS JOB look like childs play !!!!!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    ah well let me see...........out in the west in the national league. the diamond backs are in 1st place and the LA Mutts are 36-42 and 6 games out..........I'd say we got the better deal wouldn't you agree?Wink

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Like I said at the time of the trade, "it is perhaps the best Sox trade of my lifetime" (1959>).

    Even if none of the prospects pan out, the salary cut will allow us to fill in holes for years and years.

    Sox4ever.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?


    gotta agree with you Moon..........this might be Ben's legacy move.........

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Like I said at the time of the trade, "it is perhaps the best Sox trade of my lifetime" (1959>).

    Even if none of the prospects pan out, the salary cut will allow us to fill in holes for years and years.

    Sox4ever.



    Moon....you could be 115 and that statement would still be true.....I was a fan of our original signing of CC, but he is a fraud.....Beckett is done.....this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster and I would be shocked if at least one of those 2 are not more than a very serviceable Major Leaguer....oh and by the way....$250MM....gotta love those Dodgers 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    Carl Crawford nearing rehab assignment

    Dodgers manager Don Mattingly said Thursday that Carl Crawford (hamstring) is "getting closer to going out on a rehab assignment."

    Crawford, who is recovering from a left hamstring strain, has progressed to running curves at the team's spring training complex and is evidently close to game-ready. The Dodgers expect Crawford back in the lineup prior to the All-Star break.

     

     

     

     

    Josh Beckett (arm) begins throwing program

    Josh Beckett (arm) began playing catch on Wednesday.

    It's the first time he's thrown since being diagnosed with a nerve issue in his pitching arm a month ago. Beckett is optimistic that he can return to pitch this season, but the possibility of season-ending surgery is there if he doesn't feel right while ramping up his throwing program.  

     

     

     

     

    Adrian Gonzalez | First Baseman Adrian Gonzalez went 1-for-4 with his ninth homer of the season against the Padres on Saturday. The homer came in the sixth inning and was the Dodgers' first hit of the game off Padres starter Edinson Volquez. Despite the relatively low home run count, Gonzalez has 46 RBI to go with the nine bombs this year. Jun 22 - 10:43 PM       Nick Punto ( back) went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts in his return to the Dodgers' lineup Wednesday. Punto sat out Tuesday's game after making an early exit Monday with a stiff lower back. The veteran infielder is hitting .315 with a .789 OPS in 41 games this season.    



    LMAO!!! Suckers!!!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Yes, I was a big fan of the Nick Punto trade. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?


    No that bad for the Dodgers because they had to show the fans they were willing to spend to rebuild.  AGon and Crawford are both good players.  Beckett, at least in his off years, is a pariah. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

     

    Thank you LA.   Laughing

    Now watch Dwight Howard leave Hollywood.   LOL

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    I sort of miss those "FAT-CAT-BARRRRSTADS"  !!!!!!

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to crimsonandclover's comment:

    this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster 


    Correct, and it's highly unlikely that either RDR or Webster end up more than 2nd tier career MLB starters, best case.

    Since Cherrington was part of the managment that foolishly signed Crawford and extended Beckett, it's hard to take the remainder of those contracts and pretend they are placed on the Red Sox end of the trade scale. 

    In reality, the Red Sox didn't want to trade AGonzalez, even with the PR attempt to make him appear to be the leader of the malcontents, a title that Beckett earned over many years. 

    This trade is simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster. Years will be needed before the final scale measure comes in, but it's most likely to be a bad trade that was merely used to sweep under the rug the same managment's own embarrassing prior contracts.

    Management's latest pivot is to leave that trainwreck and hang the hat on shorter term contracts with high yearly costs. Needless to say, the length of the contract is only one factor in the value results of a contract. S. Drew, Dempster, Ellsbury (could have been traded) and Victorino and 45 million costs for 2013 is nothing short of embarrassing, even if not on the scale of Crawford and Beckett's 36 million a year.

    The best trade since 1959? That makes me laugh. 



    In no way is this trade 'simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster'.  

    I agree that the club did not want to get rid of Gonzalez.  And I agree that there was a push, whether internal or in the media or both, to make him seem like a malcontent when he wasn't.

    But, given that Gonzalez was not quite the beast that they paid the moon for, it made it easy to stuff the Gonzalez Trojan Horse with Beckett and CC.  THAT was the essence of the trade.  It was a gigantic salary dump and most definitely will have been worth it whether or not RDR or Webster pan out.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

    In response to crimsonandclover's comment:

     

    this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster 


    Correct, and it's highly unlikely that either RDR or Webster end up more than 2nd tier career MLB starters, best case.

    Since Cherrington was part of the managment that foolishly signed Crawford and extended Beckett, it's hard to take the remainder of those contracts and pretend they are placed on the Red Sox end of the trade scale. 

    In reality, the Red Sox didn't want to trade AGonzalez, even with the PR attempt to make him appear to be the leader of the malcontents, a title that Beckett earned over many years. 

    This trade is simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster. Years will be needed before the final scale measure comes in, but it's most likely to be a bad trade that was merely used to sweep under the rug the same managment's own embarrassing prior contracts.

    Management's latest pivot is to leave that trainwreck and hang the hat on shorter term contracts with high yearly costs. Needless to say, the length of the contract is only one factor in the value results of a contract. S. Drew, Dempster, Ellsbury (could have been traded) and Victorino and 45 million costs for 2013 is nothing short of embarrassing, even if not on the scale of Crawford and Beckett's 36 million a year.

    The best trade since 1959? That makes me laugh. 

     



    In no way is this trade 'simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster'.  

     

    I agree that the club did not want to get rid of Gonzalez.  And I agree that there was a push, whether internal or in the media or both, to make him seem like a malcontent when he wasn't.

    But, given that Gonzalez was not quite the beast that they paid the moon for, it made it easy to stuff the Gonzalez Trojan Horse with Beckett and CC.  THAT was the essence of the trade.  It was a gigantic salary dump and most definitely will have been worth it whether or not RDR or Webster pan out.

    BINGO  !!!!   Spaceman, you know your stuff, SON  !!!


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to crimsonandclover's comment:

    this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster 


    Correct, and it's highly unlikely that either RDR or Webster end up more than 2nd tier career MLB starters, best case.

    Since Cherrington was part of the managment that foolishly signed Crawford and extended Beckett, it's hard to take the remainder of those contracts and pretend they are placed on the Red Sox end of the trade scale. 

    In reality, the Red Sox didn't want to trade AGonzalez, even with the PR attempt to make him appear to be the leader of the malcontents, a title that Beckett earned over many years. 

    This trade is simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster. Years will be needed before the final scale measure comes in, but it's most likely to be a bad trade that was merely used to sweep under the rug the same managment's own embarrassing prior contracts.

    Management's latest pivot is to leave that trainwreck and hang the hat on shorter term contracts with high yearly costs. Needless to say, the length of the contract is only one factor in the value results of a contract. S. Drew, Dempster, Ellsbury (could have been traded) and Victorino and 45 million costs for 2013 is nothing short of embarrassing, even if not on the scale of Crawford and Beckett's 36 million a year.

    The best trade since 1959? That makes me laugh. 



    Sorry Softlaw, all I heard was blah, blah, blah, first place, blah, blah, blah, first place, blah, blah, blah, first place, .....

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    It would have been a good trade if the Sox had got nothing in return. The Crawford signing was a gigantic mistake. In the first place he's all done. He has continuous injury problems and at his age that will not ever get better. In addition it was obvious that if he had been completely healthy he could not have played well in Boston. 

    Beckett is somewhat similar, but more on the side of not being able to stay healthy.  I actually always liked Beckett. Under tremendous pressure he never really crumbled. His issues always seemed injury related to me, and even if he never broke-down completely, he almost never seemed to be at full health. He probably needs a surgery of some kind and a full year off if he's ever going to be useful again. He might make a good closer.  

    Gonzalez showed indications of not being able to play his best in Boston. 

    If I were a G.M. for a MLB team one thing I would do is sign free-agents who had played well in Boston. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    I said "perhaps" the best deal in my lifetime. Certainly the Pedro deal, the Schill deal, and the VTek/Lowe deal end up being better when all is said and done, but the money saved in the AGon deal has to be considered when evaluating the end results. We won't know the full results for quite sometime, and it's hard to determine what the money was spent on. I get that. But, just because Ben was here when Theo signed CC and extended Beckett, doesn't mean he was for either of them, or had anything to do with them. The fact is, when he took over control, they were on the books and were set to be crippling us for many years to come.

    Here are the money facts: like them or not...

    (I won't even count the salaries paid for the last few weeks of 2012...

    AGon will be missed, but at $21M (13, 14, 15 & 16) and $$21.5M (17 & 18), but really $22M against the luxury tax for 6 years. Sorry, but at this point in his career, I do not think that is a great value for the buck. If you look at all the 1Bmen in MLB, his offense is not a geat deal better than the #5 to #15 best 1Bmen out there. Is that worth $22M a year x 6? Not really a slam dunk "yes", is it?

    Crawford was and still is a bust. At the time of the signing, I said the deal "would cripple us for 7 years" and that he was "nothing better than a glorified platoon player". Nothing has changed but an increase in injuries. His contract would have crippled us to this extent: $20M (13), $20.25, $20.5, $20.75, and $21M up to 2017. The cost against the cap? $20.3M x 5.

    Beckett's extension went only to 2014, but for what has been returned for the money, it was crippling just the same. $15.75M (13 & 14) or $17M against the cap.

    Punto was a drop in the bucket, but still saved us $1.5M.

    Combined cap salary numbers:

              13 14 15 16 17 18

    AGON 22 22 22 22 22 22

    Craw  20 20 20 20 20

    Beck  17 17

    Punto  2

    Total  61 59 42 42 42 22

     

    Subtract what we pay LAD as a partial financial offset:

    2013: $3.9M + $2.62M (bonus portion)= $6.5M

    2014: ~$6.5M

    2015: ~$5.6M

    2016: ~$1.7M

    2017:~$1.7M

    2018:~$0.9M

     

    Total rounded off savings and who it paid for so far by largest deals made):

    2013: $54M  (Demp $13.25, Vict $13M, Papi $13M, Drew $9.5M, Gomes $5M)

    2014: $53M (Demp $13.25M, Vict $13M, Papi $13M, Gomes $5M) +9M next FA(s)

    2015: $35M (Vict $13M) + $22M on next FA(s)

    2016: $40M all for future FA signings

    2017: $40M all for future FA signings

    2018: $21M all for future FA signings

     

    So, in a sense, we traded AGon, CC, Beckett, and Punto for

    Webster, DLR, Holt...

    and...

    Dempster, Victorino, Papi, Drew, Gomes

    and...

    $131M to spend on FAs from 2014 to 2017.

     

    You can basically just say we got all that for AGon.

     

    It's a top 4 Sox trade in my lifetime- hands down. It still has a chance to be the best, hence the word "perhaps". 

    Let's hope it works out that way.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to crimsonandclover's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster 


    Correct, and it's highly unlikely that either RDR or Webster end up more than 2nd tier career MLB starters, best case.

    Since Cherrington was part of the managment that foolishly signed Crawford and extended Beckett, it's hard to take the remainder of those contracts and pretend they are placed on the Red Sox end of the trade scale. 

    In reality, the Red Sox didn't want to trade AGonzalez, even with the PR attempt to make him appear to be the leader of the malcontents, a title that Beckett earned over many years. 

    This trade is simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster. Years will be needed before the final scale measure comes in, but it's most likely to be a bad trade that was merely used to sweep under the rug the same managment's own embarrassing prior contracts.

    Management's latest pivot is to leave that trainwreck and hang the hat on shorter term contracts with high yearly costs. Needless to say, the length of the contract is only one factor in the value results of a contract. S. Drew, Dempster, Ellsbury (could have been traded) and Victorino and 45 million costs for 2013 is nothing short of embarrassing, even if not on the scale of Crawford and Beckett's 36 million a year.

    The best trade since 1959? That makes me laugh. 

     



    Sorry Softlaw, all I heard was blah, blah, blah, first place, blah, blah, blah, first place, blah, blah, blah, first place, .....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You could say it's crimsonandclover over and over, crimsonandclover over and over, crimsonandclover ...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to crimsonandclover's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    this trade was Adrian Gonzalez for RDR and Allen Webster 


    Correct, and it's highly unlikely that either RDR or Webster end up more than 2nd tier career MLB starters, best case.

    Since Cherrington was part of the managment that foolishly signed Crawford and extended Beckett, it's hard to take the remainder of those contracts and pretend they are placed on the Red Sox end of the trade scale. 

    In reality, the Red Sox didn't want to trade AGonzalez, even with the PR attempt to make him appear to be the leader of the malcontents, a title that Beckett earned over many years. 

    This trade is simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster. Years will be needed before the final scale measure comes in, but it's most likely to be a bad trade that was merely used to sweep under the rug the same managment's own embarrassing prior contracts.

    Management's latest pivot is to leave that trainwreck and hang the hat on shorter term contracts with high yearly costs. Needless to say, the length of the contract is only one factor in the value results of a contract. S. Drew, Dempster, Ellsbury (could have been traded) and Victorino and 45 million costs for 2013 is nothing short of embarrassing, even if not on the scale of Crawford and Beckett's 36 million a year.

    The best trade since 1959? That makes me laugh. 

     



    In no way is this trade 'simply on the scales as Gonzalez for RDR and Webster'.  

     

    I agree that the club did not want to get rid of Gonzalez.  And I agree that there was a push, whether internal or in the media or both, to make him seem like a malcontent when he wasn't.

    But, given that Gonzalez was not quite the beast that they paid the moon for, it made it easy to stuff the Gonzalez Trojan Horse with Beckett and CC.  THAT was the essence of the trade.  It was a gigantic salary dump and most definitely will have been worth it whether or not RDR or Webster pan out.

    [/QUOTE]

    yes yes yes.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Iceman you might have also noted, since it is a team game, that the Sox have the best record in their league and the Dodgers are in last place in their division. 

    A Gon is a good player, though he wasn't a fit in Boston, but losing teams seem to follow him around.

         
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wmasschilly. Show wmasschilly's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I said "perhaps" the best deal in my lifetime. Certainly the Pedro deal, the Schill deal, and the VTek/Lowe deal end up being better when all is said and done, but the money saved in the AGon deal has to be considered when evaluating the end results. We won't know the full results for quite sometime, and it's hard to determine what the money was spent on. I get that. But, just because Ben was here when Theo signed CC and extended Beckett, doesn't mean he was for either of them, or had anything to do with them. The fact is, when he took over control, they were on the books and were set to be crippling us for many years to come.

    Here are the money facts: like them or not...

    (I won't even count the salaries paid for the last few weeks of 2012...

    AGon will be missed, but at $21M (13, 14, 15 & 16) and $$21.5M (17 & 18), but really $22M against the luxury tax for 6 years. Sorry, but at this point in his career, I do not think that is a great value for the buck. If you look at all the 1Bmen in MLB, his offense is not a geat deal better than the #5 to #15 best 1Bmen out there. Is that worth $22M a year x 6? Not really a slam dunk "yes", is it?

    Crawford was and still is a bust. At the time of the signing, I said the deal "would cripple us for 7 years" and that he was "nothing better than a glorified platoon player". Nothing has changed but an increase in injuries. His contract would have crippled us to this extent: $20M (13), $20.25, $20.5, $20.75, and $21M up to 2017. The cost against the cap? $20.3M x 5.

    Beckett's extension went only to 2014, but for what has been returned for the money, it was crippling just the same. $15.75M (13 & 14) or $17M against the cap.

    Punto was a drop in the bucket, but still saved us $1.5M.

    Combined cap salary numbers:

              13 14 15 16 17 18

    AGON 22 22 22 22 22 22

    Craw  20 20 20 20 20

    Beck  17 17

    Punto  2

    Total  61 59 42 42 42 22

     

    Subtract what we pay LAD as a partial financial offset:

    2013: $3.9M + $2.62M (bonus portion)= $6.5M

    2014: ~$6.5M

    2015: ~$5.6M

    2016: ~$1.7M

    2017:~$1.7M

    2018:~$0.9M

     

    Total rounded off savings and who it paid for so far by largest deals made):

    2013: $54M  (Demp $13.25, Vict $13M, Papi $13M, Drew $9.5M, Gomes $5M)

    2014: $53M (Demp $13.25M, Vict $13M, Papi $13M, Gomes $5M) +9M next FA(s)

    2015: $35M (Vict $13M) + $22M on next FA(s)

    2016: $40M all for future FA signings

    2017: $40M all for future FA signings

    2018: $21M all for future FA signings

     

    So, in a sense, we traded AGon, CC, Beckett, and Punto for

    Webster, DLR, Holt...

    and...

    Dempster, Victorino, Papi, Drew, Gomes

    and...

    $131M to spend on FAs from 2014 to 2017.

     

    You can basically just say we got all that for AGon.

     

    It's a top 4 Sox trade in my lifetime- hands down. It still has a chance to be the best, hence the word "perhaps". 

    Let's hope it works out that way.

     

     

    Sox4ever



    Well said Moon---and though it didn't have quite the "long term" impact as the Pedro or Lowe/Tek deals---I'd put the Quinonez for Owen and Hendu tratoo in the discussion as well

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    Personally I don't like comparing this trade to the Pedro trade.  The two transactions are just too different.  When we traded for Pedro we acquired one of the best pitchers in history for next to nothing.  This trade was a very advantageous transaction but it was more of a cleansing of sins, a lifting of burdens.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    it was a great trade getting rid of these chumps - but one has to wonder why they were signed for so much in the first place...you have to fill up the hole that you dug out - thats only natural...but yea I thank Magic johnson everyday for his baseball insights

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Revisiting the big trade....Dodger/Sox....how are some of those guys doing?

    And on top of that the Dodgers give Greinke $150 million.  And with all this high-priced talent they're 36-43.  It's comical really.  Talk about learning the hard way in a hurry. 

     

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