Right handed Power Hitter?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    3B has 2 upper tier prospects. One needs to be traded! SS has 2 upper tier prospects, one needs to be traded! 2B is locked for many years to come, 2B upper tier prospect needs to be traded! Do you two drones think that cutting and pasting from redsoxprospects.com is necessary! There are lefty feet outfielder upper tier prospects blocked! If Upton were acquired by trade, the Red Sox have 2 upper tier RH OF and 2 middle tier RH prospects, one of any of them who become expendable!

    You two are unable to do anything but drone about the need for pitching, when over 50 million is already being spent for the sots already on the books!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]3B has 2 upper tier prospects. One needs to be traded! SS has 2 upper tier prospects, one needs to be traded! 2B is locked for many years to come, 2B upper tier prospect needs to be traded! Do you two drones think that cutting and pasting from redsoxprospects.com is necessary! There are lefty feet outfielder upper tier prospects blocked! If Upton were acquired by trade, the Red Sox have 2 upper tier RH OF and 2 middle tier RH prospects, one of any of them who become expendable! You two are unable to do anything but drone about the need for pitching, when over 50 million is already being spent for the sots already on the books!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]


    Two 3B upper tier prospects?  Cecchini has yet to play above A ball; that by defintiion is not "upper tier".   Vitek is not the kind of established prospect who is going to fetch Upton, and is a far lesser 3B prospect that the TWO the Diamondbacks already have in Davidson and Borchering.

    I'm sure the DBacks would love Bogaerts, who is unlikely to be a SS.  It's hard to call a player "blocked" when you don't even know what position he is going to play.  Also, when the term "blocked prospect" is used, it does not mean one prospct blocking another.  Blocking is meant for the top tier (MLB) alone. 

    But go on and hold your breath for this one.  No one in this thread has said "Don't get Upton."  We are telling you the Sox cannot get Upton.  Not now.  I know you think it makes sense for Arizona to move him, but there is a reason they have not, and a reason he is still a DBack: it doesn't.  And this isn't a matter of them holding out for a beter offer.  Upton was a bigger trade piece last year on a last place team with more years in front of him, and the DBacks offered him around last November (noy January).  They also received interest from 2 dozen teams.  Or, to look at it another way, there were 5 teams that were not in on Upton.

    They aren't going to move him.  A pacakge of Ellsbury, Bogaerts and, say, Lavarnway might pique some interest, but it still does make the DBacks a worse team both long term and short term.  And getting a player like Upton will cost a lot more than those balloon paymetns you think theye fear....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    3B has 2 upper tier prospects. One needs to be traded! SS has 2 upper tier prospects, one needs to be traded! 2B is locked for many years to come, 2B upper tier prospect needs to be traded! Do you two drones think that cutting and pasting from redsoxprospects.com is necessary! There are lefty feet outfielder upper tier prospects blocked! If Upton were acquired by trade, the Red Sox have 2 upper tier RH OF and 2 middle tier RH prospects, one of any of them who become expendable! You two are unable to do anything but drone about the need for pitching, when over 50 million is already being spent for the sots already on the books!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr



    Two 3B upper tier prospects?  Cecchini has yet to play above A ball; that by defintiion is not "upper tier".   Vitek is not the kind of established prospect who is going to fetch Upton, and is a far lesser 3B prospect that the TWO the Diamondbacks already have in Davidson and Borchering.

    I'm sure the DBacks would love Bogaerts, who is unlikely to be a SS.  It's hard to call a player "blocked" when you don't even know what position he is going to play.  Also, when the term "blocked prospect" is used, it does not mean one prospct blocking another.  Blocking is meant for the top tier (MLB) alone. 

    But go on and hold your breath for this one.  No one in this thread has said "Don't get Upton."  We are telling you the Sox cannot get Upton.  Not now.  I know you think it makes sense for Arizona to move him, but there is a reason they have not, and a reason he is still a DBack: it doesn't.  And this isn't a matter of them holding out for a beter offer.  Upton was a bigger trade piece last year on a last place team with more years in front of him, and the DBacks offered him around last November (noy January).  They also received interest from 2 dozen teams.  Or, to look at it another way, there were 5 teams that were not in on Upton.

    They aren't going to move him.  A pacakge of Ellsbury, Bogaerts and, say, Lavarnway might pique some interest, but it still does make the DBacks a worse team both long term and short term.  And getting a player like Upton will cost a lot more than those balloon paymetns you think theye fear....

    mr. hanky still couln't name names, but his attempt to save face was humorous.  At first he said players that could help them right away, now he's claiming prospects blocked by other prospects some of whom are still in single A. He also blasted me for suggesting trading Iggy, since we weren't going to use him anyway... now this...LOL.

    The hole is getting deeper.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    Let's look at this from strickly a business standpoint:

    The Sox  can take Soriano off Theo's hands for virtually nothing if he is also the comp.
    So he gets $18 M a year for 3 years. You are saying we pay the Luxury Tax of 40% this year based on $18 M or $7.2 M. If we have to pay the Luxury Tax  for someone that hits 20 + HR and drives in 80 + runs and can play LF and can be an emergency infielder and next year could be your DH---I have to think seriously about it. 
    Ells, Pedroia, AGon, Youk, Ortiz, CC (RF), Soriano(LF), Salty, Scutaro

                                                      OR

    I try to work out a trade for Justin Upton that would probably mean--Ells, Buchholz and a prospect are traded or Ells and Bard. I like that Upton is a young power hitting RF. 
    Scutaro, Pedroia, AGon, Upton (RF), Ortiz, Youk, CC, Salty, Sweeney(CF) 
                                                       OR

    Would the Sox be better off trying to trade for Andrew McCutchen who is first year arb eligible. Could you get him for Ells, Buchholz and 2 prospects. FA 2016.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    No, no, and no.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]Let's look at this from strickly a business standpoint: The Sox  can take Soriano off Theo's hands for virtually nothing if he is also the comp. So he gets $18 M a year for 3 years. You are saying we pay the Luxury Tax of 40% this year based on $18 M or $7.2 M. If we have to pay the Luxury Tax  for someone that hits 20 + HR and drives in 80 + runs and can play LF and can be an emergency infielder and next year could be your DH---I have to think seriously about it.  Ells, Pedroia, AGon, Youk, Ortiz, CC (RF), Soriano(LF), Salty, Scutaro                                                   OR I try to work out a trade for Justin Upton that would probably mean--Ells, Buchholz and a prospect are traded or Ells and Bard. I like that Upton is a young power hitting RF.  Scutaro, Pedroia, AGon, Upton (RF), Ortiz, Youk, CC, Salty, Sweeney(CF)                                                     OR Would the Sox be better off trying to trade for Andrew McCutchen who is first year arb eligible. Could you get him for Ells, Buchholz and 2 prospects. FA 2016.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]


    1.  Alfonso Soriano is a terrbile outfielder.  Also a terrible infielder, which is why he had to mve to become a terrible outfielder.  Advertising the versatility of spo,epne who can be equally terrible regardless of how he is used is really not a good argument.

    2.  The Sox are planning on NOT crossing the threshhold.

    3.  Soriano is an awful hitter.  If Carl Crawford had hit 10 more home runs, would fans have deceided his BA and OBP were acceptable for am 8-figure salary hitter?   Because Soriano had a lower BA and the same OBP.

    Is your plan to get as many sub-.300 OBP bats into the outfield as possiblewhile paying them as much as possible?   That leads for a tough decison for the final outfielder - Vernon Wells or Alex Rios?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]Let's look at this from strickly a business standpoint: The Sox  can take Soriano off Theo's hands for virtually nothing if he is also the comp. So he gets $18 M a year for 3 years. You are saying we pay the Luxury Tax of 40% this year based on $18 M or $7.2 M. If we have to pay the Luxury Tax  for someone that hits 20 + HR and drives in 80 + runs and can play LF and can be an emergency infielder and next year could be your DH---I have to think seriously about it.  Ells, Pedroia, AGon, Youk, Ortiz, CC (RF), Soriano(LF), Salty, Scutaro                                                   OR I try to work out a trade for Justin Upton that would probably mean--Ells, Buchholz and a prospect are traded or Ells and Bard. I like that Upton is a young power hitting RF.  Scutaro, Pedroia, AGon, Upton (RF), Ortiz, Youk, CC, Salty, Sweeney(CF)                                                     OR Would the Sox be better off trying to trade for Andrew McCutchen who is first year arb eligible. Could you get him for Ells, Buchholz and 2 prospects. FA 2016.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]
    Ells , Buchholz and two prospects for McCutchen ?????  Is this a joke?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]3B has 2 upper tier prospects. One needs to be traded! SS has 2 upper tier prospects, one needs to be traded! 2B is locked for many years to come, 2B upper tier prospect needs to be traded! Do you two drones think that cutting and pasting from redsoxprospects.com is necessary! There are lefty feet outfielder upper tier prospects blocked! If Upton were acquired by trade, the Red Sox have 2 upper tier RH OF and 2 middle tier RH prospects, one of any of them who become expendable! You two are unable to do anything but drone about the need for pitching, when over 50 million is already being spent for the sots already on the books!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    Sox haven't the Sox acquired Upton yet? 

    Arizona should be very keen to move him in this deal, according to you. The Sox showed interest last off-season, and Cherignton used to work with Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers, who as a former Sox emplpyee, is probably vey knowledgeable about the Sox farm system and knows who he lies and doesn't like.

    Why hasn't this deal happened yet? 

    For the reason I hjave been telling you for 30 posts now - IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THE DIAMONDBACKS.

    They only gave Upton the contract before the 2010 season.  And while they probably did have the late year balloon payments as deferments and reasons to deal him before they hit, that was only going to happen if the team kept losing or Upton did not look like he might be worth it.  Otherwise, his 6 year $50mill deal - a deal that pays him overall HALF of what far, far lesser players like Jose Reyes are getting - is an absolute steal.  Given what Upton has done his career and his age, the consesnus seems to be that he is going to be well worth that $14mill, and then some.

    Zero sense.  We all want him here, except the problem is Kevin
    Towers doesn't.  Find another RHH OF to latch on to.  I'm waiting for your arguments about why it makes sense for the Marlins to trade Mike Stanton for Ellsbury next...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    I'm just glad mr. hanky doesn't think we need pitching or else there'd be 50 more threads detailing trades like Jake and Scutty for Tommy Hanson.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter? : Ells , Buchholz and two prospects for McCutchen ?????  Is this a joke?
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    dale are you saying having McCutchen through 2016 would not be better than having Ells through 2013? 
    Between the savings on Ells and Buch's salary this year you might be able to sign Hiroda or Oswalt??? for the #3 slot, which, unless Buch returns to his showing two years ago will be another DL attendee in 2012.
    He would solve your RF situation and Sweeney may work better in CF.
    In addition McC is a pretty good OF, a decent hitter with some power, and he runs the bases well--plus you have him under team control through 2016.

    I realize I'm a little obsessive compulsive re. Ells being here for two years only and the Sox getting perhaps a pick or two when he leaves. He was disabled and we didn't make the playoffs--he had an incredible year last year and we didn't make the playoffs--how about we try this year without him and see if we make the playoffs--we can't do much worse...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    A pacakge of Ellsbury, Bogaerts and, say, Lavarnway might pique some interest, but it still does make the DBacks a worse team both long term and short term

    For a patronizing drone, you really illustarte how arrogance is ignorance.

    Long term, you have the same clue as you did about the Padres trading AGon last winter, which is you do not have a clue what the deal would do long term. Short term, given the difference in NL and AL and what DBacks have in place "long term", it makes them better balanced short term (Next 2 years). 

    And for those who bother to ready the droning drivel of Moonstub, this is a guy who whines about "not enough pitching" and he wants Wastefield paid 1 to 2 million for 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Every team needs more quality pitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\\

    But the market has no value on quality pitching, beyond the approach I said to take before Slackey was signed, and which Cherry is now employing.

    The Red Sox need for the sorry 50 plus million a year on the contracts sots to actually do their job in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That is where the pitching needs to come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]A pacakge of Ellsbury, Bogaerts and, say, Lavarnway might pique some interest, but it still does make the DBacks a worse team both long term and short term For a patronizing drone, you really illustarte how arrogance is ignorance. Long term, you have the same clue as you did about the Padres trading AGon last winter, which is you do not have a clue what the deal would do long term. Short term, given the difference in NL and AL and what DBacks have in place "long term", it makes them better balanced short term (Next 2 years).  And for those who bother to ready the droning drivel of Moonstub, this is a guy who whines about "not enough pitching" and he wants Wastefield paid 1 to 2 million for 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every team needs more quality pitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\\ But the market has no value on quality pitching, beyond the approach I said to take before Slackey was signed, and which Cherry is now employing. The Red Sox need for the sorry 50 plus million a year on the contracts sots to actually do their job in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is where the pitching needs to come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]


    "Jr" enjoy your "Rookie" status. I haven't seen much of anything from you that I would write home about or that would qualify for the Major Leagues.
    There is another location you might want to get your feet wet--The San Diego Tribune--is looking for a few commentators to their Forum--try them on for size. By the way time has already proven the AGon trade was an exceptional move in addition to several other signings Theo pulled off. So far I have been impressed with  Ben's signings and trades. I am looking forward to him not missing on Maholm then moving Buch and hopefully Beckett for a couple of young, healthy, power pitchers.
    By the By "Jr" you might want to pay closer attention to your elders Moon, Notin, Joe B, Kim and others. Thanks for reading my piece--I will accept your thoughts and keep them close.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    A pacakge of Ellsbury, Bogaerts and, say, Lavarnway might pique some interest, but it still does make the DBacks a worse team both long term and short term For a patronizing drone, you really illustarte how arrogance is ignorance. Long term, you have the same clue as you did about the Padres trading AGon last winter, which is you do not have a clue what the deal would do long term. Short term, given the difference in NL and AL and what DBacks have in place "long term", it makes them better balanced short term (Next 2 years).  And for those who bother to ready the droning drivel of Moonstub, this is a guy who whines about "not enough pitching" and he wants Wastefield paid 1 to 2 million for 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every team needs more quality pitching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\\ But the market has no value on quality pitching, beyond the approach I said to take before Slackey was signed, and which Cherry is now employing. The Red Sox need for the sorry 50 plus million a year on the contracts sots to actually do their job in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is where the pitching needs to come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    "Jr" enjoy your "Rookie" status. I haven't seen much of anything from you that I would write home about or that would qualify for the Major Leagues.
    There is another location you might want to get your feet wet--The San Diego Tribune--is looking for a few commentators to their Forum--try them on for size. By the way time has already proven the AGon trade was an exceptional move in addition to several other signings Theo pulled off. So far I have been impressed with  Ben's signings and trades. I am looking forward to him not missing on Maholm then moving Buch and hopefully Beckett for a couple of young, healthy, power pitchers.
    By the By "Jr" you might want to pay closer attention to your elders Moon, Notin, Joe B, Kim and others. Thanks for reading my piece--I will accept your thoughts and keep them close.

    mr. hanky (softy) will never let this rest. From what I read in the highlighted red passage, his logic has left the building. For years, he's been screaming how bad Jake is, and now he is saying AZ will be "better balanced short term" as the reason they'd trade 4 years Upton just as he is about to reach his prime for an "over-hyped" 2 years of Ells and a couple of prospects that wont help them short-term. Where and when will Lava and boagaerts help them "short term"? In AAA?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    What is this guy thinking? Zero baseball IQ.
    Ellsbury, Buchholz and two prospects for McCutcheon??????????
    Maybe the dumbest trade EVER proposed here, and there have been some beauties.
    Nobody in his right mind would trade Jacoby for McCutcheon even up, let alone a starter and two prospects!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    In Response to Re: Right handed Power Hitter?:
    [QUOTE]3B has 2 upper tier prospects. One needs to be traded! SS has 2 upper tier prospects, one needs to be traded! 2B is locked for many years to come, 2B upper tier prospect needs to be traded! Do you two drones think that cutting and pasting from redsoxprospects.com is necessary! There are lefty feet outfielder upper tier prospects blocked! If Upton were acquired by trade, the Red Sox have 2 upper tier RH OF and 2 middle tier RH prospects, one of any of them who become expendable! You two are unable to do anything but drone about the need for pitching, when over 50 million is already being spent for the sots already on the books!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    You can't believe that, surely?  Whether they are spending $5 or $50m on pitching, either their pitching is sufficient or it's not....and it's clearly not given Buchholz' injury status, 4&5 SP issues and/or replacing Bard/Aceves should they move to the rotation.  And if they do move one or both to the rotation they certainly won't pitch 400 innings between them, 325 is probably near best-case even assuming he/they are healthy and successful.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    Someone point out the logic in paying Tim Wastefield millions and improving pitching staff.........................................
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right handed Power Hitter?

    Nobody in his right mind would trade Jacoby for McCutcheon even up, let alone a starter and two prospects!

    Andrew McCutchen is 25 and is under team control for 4 years (all arbs).
    Jacoby Ellsbury is 28 (turns 29 in Sept) and is under team control for 2 years.

    McCutchen will probably make $6-10M from 2012-2013 combined.
    J. Ellsbury will probably make $18-22M from 2012-2013 combined.
    (If we are going to try and stay under the tax limit, the extra $6M a year could pay for a pretty nice piece to the puzzle).

    McCutchen:
    age 
    22  .286/.365/.471/.836
    23  .286/.365/.449/.814
    24  .259/.364/.456/.820
    Career: .276/.365/.458/.822
    162 gm avg:  .276  20  77  44 (2B+3B) (30SB  10CS)

    Ellsbury:
    23  .353/.394/.509/.902  (33 games)
    24  .280/.336/.394/.729
    25  .301/.355/.415/.770
    26  .192/.241/.244/.485 (18 games)
    27  .321/.376/.552/.928
    Career: .301/.354/.452/.807
    162 gm avg:  .301  17  75  41 (2B+3B) (56SB 12CS)

    McCutchen is younger and already has a higher career OBP, Slg% and OPS, but I can understand the 2011 season tipping the scales towards thinking Jacoby is better, but the 4 years of control compared to 2 is a huge plus for Andrew. The money saved in this tight 2012 winter would be huge.

    It's a pretty close call to anyone in their "right mind".
     
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