Right now: are the Sox better?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Here is the reason the Sox are better:  the Sox of the last 3 years have been soffffffffftttttt.  I think Terry Francona was the best Sox manager of all time.  But, I can recognize that his player-friendly approach allowed things to get loose over the past couple seasons. The key to this off-season was not to pick-up prized free agents or big names, but to get TOUGH.

    So, the ledger has shifted already:

    A.  the survivors of the 2011 crash are going to have a much-needed chip on the shoulder going into 2012

    B.  Addition by subtraction:  JD Drew (and I have been a staunch defender of the best Sox RF since Dewey) is gone.  I appreciate his game, but, it is clear, he was no dirt dog.

    C.  Nick Punto.  Yes, of course, he is just a utility infielder.  But, one look at his gaudy lifetime Dirt Dog % (.984) and you know why this is such a good pick up.  Aviles + Punto = SCRAPPY NAPPY!!

    D. Melancon.  Yes, he is young and relatively unproven.  But, he is a pit bull.  Cherrington, when asked what the diff was between him and Epstein, stated that he puts more value on "make-up".  Thus far he has shown this to be true (not just signing these guys but locking up Scutaro as his very first move).

    E. Aceves or Bard in the rotation.  Either one, whether they are lights out or just serviceable as starters, add an element of tenacity that could serve to juice the whole rotation.

    F. Bobby Valentine.  For better or for worse, the team just got BITE!

    So, still work to be done.  But, in terms of the underlying tenacity that the club has been missing, the factors listed above make a serious difference.  If Youk is healthy, this is gonna be a nasty team, even as currently constructed.  And, if you ask me, far more important than signing meh pitchers like CJ Wilson or aging semi-stars like Carlos Beltran, I want to se this team get nasssty again.  So far, so good.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Nice retort Space. Why do so many like to emphasize "third place" when we lost second place by one game on ninth inning nightmares in two different cities in the final game.?Sounds like overstatement to me. Losing a horse race by a neck isn't as bad as being ten lengths behind.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Nice retort Space. Why do so many like to emphasize "third place" when we lost second place by one game on ninth inning nightmares in two different cities in the final game.?Sounds like overstatement to me. Losing a horse race by a neck isn't as bad as being ten lengths behind.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    no doubt Pike.  This club, as is, is a contender.  Yes, September was a disaster.  But that is because Ortiz desecrated a Jobu shrine in August.  OK, just kidding.  But in all seriousness, the bookends to 2011 were nightmares, no doubt.  But, in between, the much-maligned 2011 Red Sox played like a juggernaut.  They just weren't finishers.  In my opinion, most of that had to do with a lack of starting pitching depth (which, certainly still has not been fully addressed).  The rest was crazy sports-psychology intangibles that lead to implosions like we saw.  But these intangibles I truly believe are nipped in the bud by the dirt dog moves thus far, the newfound chips on shoulders of the very talented 2011 survivors, Bobby V., and John lackey being on ice.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Troutman. Show Troutman's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Better? With the same bunch of clowns around and a hot head for a Manager? You have got to be kidding! Damn if I'm going to pony-up any dough to watch this bunch of spoiled athletes for another year. Maybe when the team gets sold to owners that are not so phony.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Valentine and Cherington will shape up the Red Sox by the spring. Remember it is Fenways 100 year anniversary so losing is not an option.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Better? With the same bunch of clowns around and a hot head for a Manager? You have got to be kidding! Damn if I'm going to pony-up any dough to watch this bunch of spoiled athletes for another year. Maybe when the team gets sold to owners that are not so phony.
    Posted by Troutman[/QUOTE]

    You can watch every Sox game in the coimfort of your living room for $1 per game, ten seconds to the bathroom, pizza from your kitchen oven, beer from the refrigerator, car in your driveway, and go to bed ten minutes after the last out. By the way, are you just trolling? If that is so then I just wasted five minutes of my lifetime. Troutman? Make a note of him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Hard to tell "right now", but I'd have to say on paper we are worse.
    No Paps: add Melancon: Minus.
       Could make up ground with a couple more nice pen pick-ups.
    Add Punto: take away Lowrie: Plus.
       Better fielder. Likely to stay healthy.
    Add Shoppach: take away VTek: Minus.
       I don't see us going 42-22 with Kelly.

    Questions:
    Will the big three be healthy and on their game? (Beck/Lest/Buch)
       My quess is that one will not.
    Will Youk have a full season of good health?
       I think he will have a better year than 2011.
    Will Crawford approach his career norm in 2012?
       I think he will... a big plus.
    Will Bard and Aceves really both start? If so, will they do well?
       Perhaps the biggest gamble and uncertainty right now about 2012.
    Will AGon show more power now that his injury should be fully healed?
       I say yes. I think AGon will have a better year than 2011.
    Will Ellsbury repeat, improve or make softy happy and tank?
       I say he will come close to 2011's numbers.
    Will Scutaro, Aviles, Punto and Iggy give us solid SS play?
       Offense, yes, better than average. Defense, yikes!
    Will Papi continue hitting LHPs well and have a solid season?
       I think he will drop off some, but still be the best DH in MLB.

    I think our offense will be as good as 2011 and maybe a little better with improvements from AGon and Crawford.

    Our pitching will decline as is. How much is the big question.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Hard to tell "right now", but I'd have to say on paper we are worse. No Paps: add Melancon: Minus.    Could make up ground with a couple more nice pen pick-ups. Add Punto: take away Lowrie: Plus.    Better fielder. Likely to stay healthy. Add Shoppach: take away VTek: Minus.    I don't see us going 42-22 with Kelly. Questions: Will the big three be healthy and on their game? (Beck/Lest/Buch)    My quess is that one will not. Will Youk have a full season of good health?    I think he will have a better year than 2011. Will Crawford approach his career norm in 2012?    I think he will... a big plus. Will Bard and Aceves really both start? If so, will they do well?    Perhaps the biggest gamble and uncertainty right now about 2012. Will AGon show more power now that his injury should be fully healed?    I say yes. I think AGon will have a better year than 2011. Will Ellsbury repeat, improve or make softy happy and tank?    I say he will come close to 2011's numbers. Will Scutaro, Aviles, Punto and Iggy give us solid SS play?    Offense, yes, better than average. Defense, yikes! Will Papi continue hitting LHPs well and have a solid season?    I think he will drop off some, but still be the best DH in MLB. I think our offense will be as good as 2011 and maybe a little better with improvements from AGon and Crawford. Our pitching will decline as is. How much is the big question.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    I know I sound like a broken record, and many of my posts are tongue in cheek posts, but I truly believe the new manager is a big plus. I'm of the opinion that Valentine will never give up on a winnable game, even if it is in April. He will also do his best to see to it that the Sox will score those winning or tying runs late in games.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Tongue-in-cheek might go over in person to person contact with visual clues such as a wink or smile but it never goes over in a forum.  In Internet your posts are taken literally. Sorry but that is the way that it is.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In terms of addition by subtraction...let us not forget the highest era in all of mlb leaving our rotation next year (Lackey)  Seriously even if we gave someone like Doubront a chance year round he is likely to be a big upgrade even with a mediocre performance.

    CLoser is the most overrated position, with the exception of the playoffs, but bullpen upgrades can always be made in July, and I feel the Sox have added one good arm, and are likely going to add another.

    Plus there is no way this team performs as bad as last September.  Let us not forget that Carl Crawford is also likely to have a much better year, and Youkilis should provide more offense if healthy as well.  Also Salty saw the most playing time of his career so it's reasonable to believe that he can improve in his second full year starting as well.  Many other players at the MLB ready level should be able to contribute in the bullpen as well such as Doubront/Bowden/Wilson

    RF should also be an upgrade as well.  There is much debate about what Reddick can do, but he's continually shown an improvement at every level of the game with time to adjust.  I doubt he will ever hit .300 and 40 HR but a full year from him should provide more than a J.D. Drew on a serious decline.

    There is also areas that could possibly show decline, who knows what Beckett will give us next year, but we can also say Buccholz should be healthy all year and give us more out of a starting rotation.

    It's so hard to say that this team is better or worse.  I'd say (all things considered) it SHOULD be better next year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Better right now?  No.  Certainly not on paper, as moon pointed out.

    Done wheeling and dealing?  No. 

    I expect this team to be better than the one that let it get away in September by the time spring rolls around.  Still think that Madson is going to sign with the Sox, and that a trade will be made with a few of the redundant players, such as Reddick, Doubront or Bowden, Anderson, maybe Ranaudo, in order to add more pitching depth (or a RH OF bat).

    1B and 2B should be about the same offensively and defensively.  Expect SS to be about the same defensively, but slip some offensively.  3B should be better offensively and defensively if Youk returns healthy and stays healthy.  Catcher gets better defensively and offensively as Salty matures, Shoppach throws out runners, and Lavarnway comes on in July or so.  Crawford improves all-around in LF, Ells slips some offensively, but not defensively, and RF can hardly get worse...expect a bit of improvement here to make up for what Els likely loses.

    That leaves the pitching.  Starters, 1 - 5 will be better overall when all is decided.  The only question really, then, is the bullpen.  If I am right about Madson, a bullpen of Madson, Melancon, Morales, Albers and some as yet to be determined reliever via trade or cheap signing should be as good as Aceves, Bard, Papelbon, Morales and Albers were.

    With a new manager and a new core attitude, this team should win at least 6 games more than they did last year, though it will be harder next year (especially if Toronto has won the rights to and can sign Darvish).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    Losing a horse rate by a neck is very bad if in the stretch neither the jockey nor the horse had the ability or the will to win. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better? : You can stop hoping, he'll change your mind in the first week. I'm so looking forward to April games being treated as important as September games. It should be fun.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    You won't get any heat from me on this. Tito was terrible in this respect.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rvicini. Show rvicini's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    How much a minor league system changes its perception after the arrival of a new manager? It is the norm in soccer that a new manager thinks highly of prospects the other would not consider. . . Are there new hopes for Linares, Lin and Co. . . Maybe Doubront is the new #4? As others have said. . Maybe we have them all. Who knows, maybe Alex Wilson will thrive. I just do not understand why our minor system is so depleted and at the same time I have read for many years in a row that we were the best drafters. . .
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Hard to tell "right now", but I'd have to say on paper we are worse. No Paps: add Melancon: Minus.    Could make up ground with a couple more nice pen pick-ups. Add Punto: take away Lowrie: Plus.    Better fielder. Likely to stay healthy. Add Shoppach: take away VTek: Minus.    I don't see us going 42-22 with Kelly. Questions: Will the big three be healthy and on their game? (Beck/Lest/Buch)    My quess is that one will not. Will Youk have a full season of good health?    I think he will have a better year than 2011. Will Crawford approach his career norm in 2012?    I think he will... a big plus. Will Bard and Aceves really both start? If so, will they do well?    Perhaps the biggest gamble and uncertainty right now about 2012. Will AGon show more power now that his injury should be fully healed?    I say yes. I think AGon will have a better year than 2011. Will Ellsbury repeat, improve or make softy happy and tank?    I say he will come close to 2011's numbers. Will Scutaro, Aviles, Punto and Iggy give us solid SS play?    Offense, yes, better than average. Defense, yikes! Will Papi continue hitting LHPs well and have a solid season?    I think he will drop off some, but still be the best DH in MLB. I think our offense will be as good as 2011 and maybe a little better with improvements from AGon and Crawford. Our pitching will decline as is. How much is the big question.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon--it's not okay for the Sox to have "Bullpen by Committee" but it's okay to have "SS by Committee."

    Make your pen your strength. Bard, Aceves, Bailey, Melancon, Jenks, Morales, Albers and Atch.
    Starters: Get Beckett out of town---Lester, Buch, Colby Lewis, Doubrount and John Danks/Gavin Floyd --need more go deeper into the retread pile--the rotation will be weaker. Why must we go out and trade or buy a retread when we have some guys in our own system that need a shot and are probably as good--not as experienced but as good.
    The Hitters and Pen will have to do their job until Dice comes back.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Tongue-in-cheek might go over in person to person contact with visual clues such as a wink or smile but it never goes over in a forum.  In Internet your posts are taken literally. Sorry but that is the way that it is.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Really??? So you believe that I think J. Fred Muggs would be a better manager than Francona, and that Francona was in the rest room when Manny and Millar gave the steal sign to Roberts in 2004??  Really???? You might be interested in a bridge I have for sale..
    To be honest, I do think that J. Fred could out manage Francona.Laughing
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    In Response to Re: Right now: are the Sox better?:
    [QUOTE]Sox need starting pitching that is MLB ready.  If there is one thing that most Sox fans have learned through the past few years - it is that there is some high probability that at least one or more of the big three...Buck, Lester or Beckett or all of them will go on the DL at some point during the season when the Sox can least afford it.  With absolutely no backup in place for these guys...it is going to be a long season of holding our breath.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    That is why I kept saying dont trade Doubrount, Tawaza, Weiland (he is gone now), Bowen, etc. along with few top pitching prospects cuz Boston will need to depend on them alot for the 2012 season. 

    If Boston ever need to trade one of them for Garza, I would be fine with that. But trading few pitchings for a hitter such as Quientin or Swisher or Hanley, etc, that would hurt Boston more than having a hitter to come to the team for the next season.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Right now: are the Sox better?

    I can see Garza--eventually coming as a two for one for Theo's comp:

    Garza for Reddick and Doubrount or Bowden or Tazawa. A piece he could flip if he needed a better part we didn't have.
     

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