RINGLEADER: VARITEK

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    I wonder how many named sources we have on this board...?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    Papi says they've always had the beer and chicken ans tuff like that.  He laughingly said "We had it in 2004.  We had it in 2007.  So what's the difference?"

    Hmmmmm....


        The AMOUNT of beer and chicken maybe ....


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    JimFromFlorida   
    ...Do believe Pedroia who says what he says and takes responsibility for his words....


    Few will be able to follow my thinking here. It is rooted in the four P's of marketing: PRODUCT - PRICE - POSITION - PROMOTION.

    The Red Sox Public Relations department is in overdrive. They WILL utilize their most respected, visible and well-liked player to re-position their brand.


    Adrian Gonzalez?
    ...lost support due to his outspoken faith in God.
    David Ortiz? ...lost support because he is out of contracts with the Sox.
    Jon Lester? ... he's plain stupid w/ beer, chicken and buddies...
    Jacoby Ellsbury? ...a Native American from Madras, OR is runner-up.

    Dustin Pedroia: Self-made player who's small in stature and well-known for swinging from his shoes. All-star, silver slugger, gold glove and well-paid homegrown talent. He's a bona fide star who also appears to be an upstanding straight talker. Perhaps committed to raising his family here. Certainly a spokesperson for The Salem Five, Dunkin' Donuts, and New Balance. Heck, why not? He's also a spokesperson for the MLB franchise in town (his employer) the Boston Red Sox.

    Why would the Sox not "use" his "branding" to re-position their brand?

    Jim? I've always thought you were slow on the uptake and still do think that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    Red Sox 2011:  A classic case study of a company (brand) getting their pricing, positioning and promotion right. They forgot that baseball is a product-centered business. Unfortunately in the baseball business refunds are not available.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    What's Varitek's crime?  Did he buy the beer and order the chicken?  Assuming sofla is posting in good faith, there was resentment on Varitek's part over playing time - OK, so what does that mean?  He orchestrated a lack of support among the pitchers for the rest of his team?  He orchestrated a showing of disrespect toward his manager?  What did he do, exactly, to contribute to the collapse, aside from hitting .077 in September?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sofla4patriots. Show sofla4patriots's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    What's Varitek's crime?  Did he buy the beer and order the chicken?  Assuming sofla is posting in good faith, there was resentment on Varitek's part over playing time - OK, so what does that mean?  He orchestrated a lack of support among the pitchers for the rest of his team?  He orchestrated a showing of disrespect toward his manager?  What did he do, exactly, to contribute to the collapse, aside from hitting .077 in September?
    Posted by slomag


     Variteks crime???..Totally backstabbed Francona & brought his nasty attitude to other veterans. Once he knew Theo was in his corner...he never listened to Francona one bit...Cancer has to start somewhere, in the end, he had alot of company.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    In Response to RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
     I've never posted out here before on Red sox discussion..But, many of you are aware that this is instructional season...so many, many baseball people here in Florida.  Mid season....a huge disconnect became unbearable between Varitek and Francona...Francona wanted Varitek off the team,,,but Theo wouldn't cut him. Not only was Varitek not producing,,,but was a lockeroom CANCER, w/Beckett, Lester etc...following.. Not only that,  but Variteks girlfriend, was in lockeroom every night, and upper management wouldn't stop this.  So YES, all stories true ...about beer, chicken, and workouts being skipped 2nd half of season....  SAD, but these veterans turned their back on one solid manager...and knowing Boston, with this news out now...ALL will have difficult time playing there again.  FYI, ALL THIS INFO CAME FROM OTHER FRONT OFFICE PEOPLE, from other teams...MLB is all talking about boston bad news.  The guy who started it all...Jason Varitek..others followed the...'Captain'
    Posted by sofla4patriots


    Sofia, I hope you are telling the truth because I have believed for the past three years that Varitek should not have been on the team.  If we hadn't resigned him twice he would have been out of baseball because he got exactly ZERO offers from other teams.  He has long outlived his usefulness.  He can no longer hit, can't throw, can't lead, and if he still wants to play let him do it elsewhere.  That goes double for the other relic, Tim Wakefield.  When I heard him say he wanted to return in '12 and knew the fans wanted to see him break the record I nearly went catatonic.  I was never a fan of Francona but it is interesting to now hear that we wanted Varitek gone.  Next season both he and Wakefield must be gone, along with the medical staff that has proven its incompetence the past two seasons.  We need a manager with spine and a Lucchino who will back him and also demand competence, responsibility and a full commitment to winning and not trying to be everyone's pal.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sofla4patriots. Show sofla4patriots's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    In Response to RINGLEADER: VARITEK : Sofia, I hope you are telling the truth because I have believed for the past three years that Varitek should not have been on the team.  If we hadn't resigned him twice he would have been out of baseball because he got exactly ZERO offers from other teams.  He has long outlived his usefulness.  He can no longer hit, can't throw, can't lead, and if he still wants to play let him do it elsewhere.  That goes double for the other relic, Tim Wakefield.  When I heard him say he wanted to return in '12 and knew the fans wanted to see him break the record I nearly went catatonic.  I was never a fan of Francona but it is interesting to now hear that we wanted Varitek gone.  Next season both he and Wakefield must be gone, along with the medical staff that has proven its incompetence the past two seasons.  We need a manager with spine and a Lucchino who will back him and also demand competence, responsibility and a full commitment to winning and not trying to be everyone's pal.
    Posted by seabeachfred


     Look, I never post anything on Patriots board unless I KNOW it to be fact. Check out my HISTORY there. I reported Moss separating his shoulder 6 weeks before it was in newspaper.

     2007, I stated Moss' 40 times in MARCH @ 4.21 in his workouts..for those who were saying he was washed up....and you saw him run.

     So, Right Now...am telling you this about Varitek & Wakefield, his devoted follower.  It WILL come out in news. Sadly, the 1 guy that shocked me on this one...was Lester, who has never been lumped into a badass category before. Bucholtz, for certain, a punk off the field...but never Lester.

     I have family...coaching in MLB, yet, am lifelong Red Sox fan...But will tell you, this rumbling DID NOT start in Sept...was more like May-June,,,and snowballed.

     Sad part about Varitek, is had he just retired, he could have owned this city...He now, once this comes out...will yes, be recognized for his role in 2 Championships...but HAS burned some big bridges.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brkh. Show brkh's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    The more sofla4patriots posts...the deeper it gets in here!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    The more sofla4patriots posts...the deeper it gets in here!
    Posted by brkh


    I'll agree with that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK :  You're entitled to your opinion...But I do know 1 thing...and that  is that all this is truthful, because of the people it's coming from.  Varitek & Wakefield...no, I do not know their reasons...but was bad bad scene there. Beckett, Lester, Lakey, bucholtz [ described as a punk]..well they may have their guaranteed contracts and the security that goes w/them..but starting next year, they will pay dearly for their complete lack of respect for the game they are fortunate to play for a living.  One thing about Boston fans...they have good memories, and do not take kindly to this type crap.
    Posted by sofla4patriots


    Mea Culpa SOFIA,

    Wow!  Don't I feel foolish now...   Had I known your third cousin's nephew was the BAT BOY COACH for the farm club in KC, I never would have been so critical of your impeccable sources...

    YOU ARE THE MAN!  OR CHICK???  Whatever  :)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigpanther98. Show bigpanther98's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    There are many things that are making me question your sources, but one major problem with your argument is your stated rift between Francona and Epstein over Varitek.  It makes no sense for Theo to be in Tek's corner.  If anything, it would be the other way around.  Theo has been cutthroat about using sabermetrics when making decisions while Francona is much more of a player's manager.  Francona would be supporting Tek and Theo would be the one who wants to dump him because of his poor stats.  What I believe is what I see with my eyes.  I see games where Francona is always talking with Varitek and seemingly having a good professional (and friendly at times) discourse.  I also see games where I see John Lackey barking back at his manager or throwing a mini tantrum on the mound Francona came to yank him or disparaging his teammates after a game.  I will stick with my statements from weeks ago - Lackey was at the very least a problem in the clubhouse if not a ring leader.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    And here I thought all of this would get blown out of proportion.  But today, more eyes are riveted to the latest installment of "As the Clubhouse Turns"...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    I find no reason not to believe sofla.  Stuff like this is known by insiders and talked about all the time.  Heard it from a barstool?  Guess what?  News reporters know that you can pick up a lot by going to the right bars and listening.

    That said, so what?  You hear something like this, you file it away, and you keep your ears open.  You may hear something that points at corroboration. 

    But that's the difference between a discussion board and a newspaper.  Here, we may be able to pick up some actual inside stuff from someone like sofla.  At a real newspaper, they do need real sources, even if they're "unnamed," and typically the editor will ask for at least two for any given piece of info. That's why you may or may not see this written up as fact in the paper.  Just keep your ears open.

    And please, don't give too much cred to the all-good-news types like Pedroia.  It's when they start talking about the not-so-easy stuff that you can believe them.  It's easy to be a cheerleader right now.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    I find no reason not to believe sofla.  Stuff like this is known by insiders and talked about all the time.  Heard it from a barstool?  Guess what?  News reporters know that you can pick up a lot by going to the right bars and listening. That said, so what?  You hear something like this, you file it away, and you keep your ears open.  You may hear something that points at corroboration.  But that's the difference between a discussion board and a newspaper.  Here, we may be able to pick up some actual inside stuff from someone like sofla.  At a real newspaper, they do need real sources, even if they're "unnamed," and typically the editor will ask for at least two for any given piece of info. That's why you may or may not see this written up as fact in the paper.  Just keep your ears open. And please, don't give too much cred to the all-good-news types like Pedroia.  It's when they start talking about the not-so-easy stuff that you can believe them.  It's easy to be a cheerleader right now.
    Posted by Ergoetal


    Then give it as your opinion, and stop inferring that you have inside sources. If you have the sources, who are they? There's usually something wrong with people who give their take on things, but refuse to identify anyone. They could easily have a bias towards someone. And the fact that he chose to identify himself under a certain geographic location is usually a clue. He might as well have said Antarctica.

    FTR We do have Aussiewill, and he uses "shrimp on the barbie" in his posts. No Austrailian says that. It's hilarious.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    His sources are  unnamed mlb people at instructional league sites.

    If Pete Abe   came with this   everyone would be all over him.

    Tek knows his time was short and typical at end of the season his production dropped off..    If this is the case and he is Beckett's personal catcher,  then  see ya Jason  at the next old timers game.   He was not coming back to begin with next year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sofla4patriots. Show sofla4patriots's posts

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    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    There are many things that are making me question your sources, but one major problem with your argument is your stated rift between Francona and Epstein over Varitek.  It makes no sense for Theo to be in Tek's corner.  If anything, it would be the other way around.  Theo has been cutthroat about using sabermetrics when making decisions while Francona is much more of a player's manager.  Francona would be supporting Tek and Theo would be the one who wants to dump him because of his poor stats.  What I believe is what I see with my eyes.  I see games where Francona is always talking with Varitek and seemingly having a good professional (and friendly at times) discourse.  I also see games where I see John Lackey barking back at his manager or throwing a mini tantrum on the mound Francona came to yank him or disparaging his teammates after a game.  I will stick with my statements from weeks ago - Lackey was at the very least a problem in the clubhouse if not a ring leader.
    Posted by bigpanther98


     Even Gammons reported [ and he's a good one] that there was disconnect between Theo & Francona...MLB coaches/front office people know Francona lost this team..Why?  When the veterans turned their backs and stopped 'caring' [ not working out @ all etc], Francona wanted to get rid of the Ringleader..and WAS denied by Theo....Lackey is/was bad news, but was Varitek, Wakefield Beckett & Lackey...in that order. Buckholz/Lester followed, but again, Lester is most disappointing of them all. He almost had his career taken from him,,,and fails to appreciate how fragile a baseball career is....that he'd stop doing what got him there.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK :  Even Gammons reported [ and he's a good one] that there was disconnect between Theo & Francona...MLB coaches/front office people know Francona lost this team..Why?  When the veterans turned their backs and stopped 'caring' [ not working out @ all etc], Francona wanted to get rid of the Ringleader..and WAS denied by Theo....Lackey is/was bad news, but was Varitek, Wakefield Beckett & Lackey...in that order. Buckholz/Lester followed, but again, Lester is most disappointing of them all. He almost had his career taken from him,,,and fails to appreciate how fragile a baseball career is....that he'd stop doing what got him there.
    Posted by sofla4patriots


    NEWS FLASH!!!

    I didn't want to have to do this, BUT....

    Sofia is not this poor guy's real name (as though you thought that anyway).  A very close relative of mine works on the fringe service area of the Red Sox Organization.  He / she (to protect their true identity) happens to know / not know exactly who Sofia really is.  This 'gentleman / lady' may / may not have been let go earlier this Spring Training for an 'incident' concerning Red Sox players.  There was no civil lawsuit filed, and I will leave it up to your powers of inferential comprehension to deduce why that might / might not be the case.  Sofia may / may not have had 'a problem' with one or more  of the players he / she is now attacking.   MORE TO COME ............  Watch the RS news...... 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    The OP is simply not credible, regardless of sources. 

    At midseason Tek was still part of the solution because he and Salty were a pretty good tandem who caught every single Sox game.  Between them they were catching and hitting well enough to be real contributors, with Tek catching roughly 2 out of 5 games. 

    And at midseason and for at least a month after that the Sox were the best team in the AL.  We now know (or at least believe) three of the starters were drinking beer in the clubhouse all season long, not just in September.  So the fact that the captain didn't try to stop wasn't necessarily all bad.   

    The proximate cause of the September collapse was the starting pitching, which then affected the bullpen and very possibly the fielding and even the hitting.  I think the problem with the pitching was that Buchholz dropped out with the bad back, Lackey continued to be horrible, and the other three--Wakefield, Weiland, and Miller--couldn't pick up the slack.  I'm more than happy to blame some of that on Tek, but certainly not all of it. 

    That said, softlaw has long argued that Tek and Wake should go, and this time I agree.  Tek was next to useless in September and Wake gave up 21 runs in 24 innings.  Both need to go.

    As for the so-called problems in the clubhouse, my view is to pretty much ignore them, with the very definite exception of Lackey.  He needs to go.  Forget the clubhouse, he is a negative leader on the field and on the bench, a bonafide sorehead.  In fact, if he stays, the Sox should encourage him to spend as much time as possible in the clubhouse, except when other players are present. 

    As for Beckett and Lester, I doubt that either has the chutzpah to return to the clubhouse for beer, chicken, and videogames anytime next year. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK :  Variteks crime???..Totally backstabbed Francona & brought his nasty attitude to other veterans. Once he knew Theo was in his corner...he never listened to Francona one bit...Cancer has to start somewhere, in the end, he had alot of company.
    Posted by sofla4patriots


    That's just not very tangible - what was he not listening about, and is not listening to Francona the same as back-stabbing him?  Here's something that supports your theory - when Crawford missed both games a of a double-header late in the season, he was asked why he couldn't play after the second game and he said "Talk to the Captain".  Do you have any insight about that?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    Mike Francesa on WFAN said , when the clubhouse stuff came out , that he heard several more stories from baseball people during the last Yankee / Sox series . He said that he would not repeat them on the air because he could not verify the accuracy , but that they came from knowledgable baseball sources.  These stories went above and beyond what we have heard so far.  It definitely seems that there is more to this whole mess than we know. Probably will never learn everything that went on unless someone writes a tell all book.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK

    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK:
    In Response to Re: RINGLEADER: VARITEK : That's just not very tangible - what was he not listening about, and is not listening to Francona the same as back-stabbing him?  Here's something that supports your theory - when Crawford missed both games a of a double-header late in the season, he was asked why he couldn't play after the second game and he said "Talk to the Captain".  Do you have any insight about that?
    Posted by slomag


    Slomag,

    Please!?!?!  The fact that some of you keep asking this guy / gal QUESTIONS, as to her / his 'insight,' strikes me as ABSOLUTELY NUTS!!!!!

    ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME!?!?!  Some of you sound like you can't wait for the next edition of the National Inquirer to hit the stands!  By pleading for "more information," or "do you think your sources have this nailed down," MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE AS BIG A FOOL AS THIS GUY / GAL CERTAINLY IS!!!!!

    I don't even care if this wack job happens to have stumbled on to a morsel of truth in the c r a p he / she is shoveling out their!  Are you people this stupid, where you don't realize that the c r a p this joker is pumping out CAN NEVER BE DISPROVEN OR PROVEN. 

    WOW!!!!!  THIS JOKER IS MAKING SOME OF YOU LOOK LIKE ABSOLUTE FOOLS!

    btw......  My buddy, who works near Fenway part, has a friend of a friend who happens to have some Indian blood in him.  He knows for a fact that when Ells went down with that injury, he called on his "great eagle spirit" for healing & to give him new eyes.  Ells can now literally read the stitches on ANY PITCH!  There is no doubt that Ells is playing with some new tools.  5 TOOL?  I THINK NOT!  THIS IS A FACT!  :)

    GET A GRIP PEOPLE!!!!
     
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