Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF
posted at 12/30/2012 7:42 PM EST
In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:
In response to EdithBRTN's comment:
In response to SinceYaz's comment:
hIn response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
Technology "kicked butt" in Desert Storm, not Schwarzkopf.
We had better high-tech killing machines than the Iraqis.
No doubt we had better stuff, Zilla, but there is no doubt that leadership makes a difference. We have seen when leadership fails = both in sprt and in real life. The General was very competrent and made a huge difference in winning that first go round. As a matter of fact, the blood thirsty leaders of Iraq counted on American leadership failure. The failed effort of Pres. Carter to get back the hostages as well as the cruise missile attacks of Pres. Clinton, which were seen as ineffective and cowardly, convinced Hussein and Ben Laden we didn't have the leadership or guts to make decisions that have effective results. Schwarzkopf lead things effectively.
To JimfromFla, My review of the release of the Iran hostages was in response to the highlighted comments made by SinceYaz shown above. Posters should not go off onto tangents here and if they do so then so shall I. There was no NEED whatsoever for SinceYaz to bring Jimmy Carter and Reagan into this thread but they did and I responded. SinceYaz attacked Carter and Clinton in a thread that was supposed to be about someone else. Why not attack them instead of me. If you wish to attack them, Carter and Clinton, then start another thread about them and leave this thread to the General. The problem with this forum is that posters always go off on tangents and then that opens it up to everything and everyone, right?
I apoligize I did not see that reference. Yes that was wrong as well and that was a sorry comment made in a thread that should not have added it.
However just because that person does something dumb does not mean you should follow him down that road. You made it worse in light of the thread being about a GREAT MAN.
As Bill's Dad would say TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT
Jim, the reference to Pres. Carter's failed efforts to get the hostages back was unclear and I apologize. I was referencing the failed military effort as recorded below:
On April 24, 1980, an ill-fated military operation to rescue the 52 American hostages held in Tehran ends with eight U.S. servicemen dead and no hostages rescued.
With the Iran Hostage Crisis stretching into its sixth month and all diplomatic appeals to the Iranian government ending in failure, President Jimmy Carter ordered the military mission as a last ditch attempt to save the hostages. During the operation, three of eight helicopters failed, crippling the crucial airborne plans. The mission was then canceled at the staging area in Iran, but during the withdrawal one of the retreating helicopters collided with one of six C-130 transport planes, killing eight soldiers and injuring five. The next day, a somber Jimmy Carter gave a press conference in which he took full responsibility for the tragedy. The hostages were not released for another 270 days.
The military equipment - an point Zilla brought up - used at the time was fine for our normal theaters of involvement such as Europe, Pacific rim Asia and so on, but was NOT ready for the demands of desert warfare. The LEADERSHIP issue that was in question was one that was not properly informed ... but the military learned from this gaff and began retooling for the fine dust and sand of the terrain in the Middle East. The rescue attempt was seen as a disaster - but if you remember, Jimmy Carter was a man who learned while in office. He was often seen taking huge tomes of information as his reading material - to his credit. Many ridiculed him for seeming so intent on learning. I did not. I found it refreshing that he didn't put on airs that he knew it all.
Norman Schwarzkopf was a beneficiary of the technical lessons learned. But his leadership was top notch and showed clarity, purpose and defined resolve. As I stated in my first post, the General was one of the examples of efficiency and effectiveness that convinced my older son that the military was also efficient and effective and thus gave himself whole-heartedly in service for the last decade.