RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:

    SinceYaz:

    The failed effort of Pres. Carter to get back the hostages as well as the cruise missile attacks of Pres. Clinton, which were seen as ineffective and cowardly, convinced Hussein and Ben Laden we didn't have the leadership or guts to make decisions that have effective results.

    You voted for a candidate whom you considered to be " ineffective and cowardly"? Carter and Clinton had "no guts"? You agreed with Hussein and Bin Laden that " we didn't have the leadership to make decisions that have effective results"?

    Sir, I voted for Carter.  I would NEVER vote for Clinton.  But the ineffective and cowardly reference is what the enemy drew as assessments, not me.  You MISSED THAT CRITICAL POINT COMPLETELY.  You allowed what ever bias you have to miss COMPLETELY the point that the Middle Eastern enemies saw thing this way.

    Were cruise missiles aimed at sites at 3 am with minimal collateral damage that wrong against a regime led by the likes of Hussein.

    Again, while we have been the most humane, most careful country in war - argaubly in history - it is the viewpoint of the enemy I was presenting.  THEY have no problem with suicide bombs and terroristic plans.  If you have read anuthing about the enemies' mind set, you would realize they thought the Soviets were a far worse enemy to face because they were ruthless and inhumane.  Central to the thought in El  Qaida's  way of thinking is get a few people here upset over the stuff they see and we will quit.

    We used cruise missiles as a strategic and surgical response. THEY SAW IT DIFFERENTLY.  Try to get that point clear.

    General Schwarzkopf and the military forces he lead, made it clear to  Hussein if no one else that we weren't going to fall apart in the sand and slink back home.

    How do you compare that to our dropping an A-Bomb on Hiroshima that killed innocent civilians?  What is your definition of "effective results"? I still don't understand why you voted for Carter and perhaps Clinton after your above statement.

     I wonder what kind of historian you really are.  Trying to tie the A-Bomb and a war in which the Japanese Empire was directly responsible for the death and torture of 10 to 15 million people ... even without its allegiance with Hitler, to the situation we are talking about now is clearly apples and oranges, in the most deadly way. 

    Hitler and the Emperor of Japan were directly responsible for the death, torture, and attempted genocide of up to 50 million people, most of whom were innocent civilians until and after they began the conquest for world domination.   An average of 300,000 civilians a month died at the hand, behest or plan of the Axis powers.  Jews, Koreans, Chinese, and dozens of other groups were targeted ... the use of the A-Bomb, while truly earth shattering, was given credit for shortening the war in the Pacific and saving countless American serviceman - since invading Japan was avoided.

    You are smearing mud and peanut butter together and saying they are the same thing. 

    The tragedy of the hostage release was this, Carter did all the the negotiations to get the release and the Iranians delayed the release until Reagan took office. Nearly every historian agrees with this. (I don't know which historians you read from.  But none of the ones I read from, and I read from a very broad scope, make this claim.) The Conservatives like to give Reagan credit but he deserves none.  

    I didn't vote for Reagan.  But if you have on whit of memory, Reagan gave all the credit to Carter for perservering to the very end.  The Ayatolla's regime, such as it was at the time, did not want to give Carter anything to claim as success and therefore waited until after Reagan was sworn in.  Allow me to repeat myself, Reagan took NONE of the credit and openly gave that credit to Carter.

    The failed military effort to free the hostages should be blamed on the military and not the President . 

    Duh, that is exactly what I not only referred to but openly said in my last post.   BUT it was President Carter who called the action into play ... and as the Commander in Chief bears that weight. 

     Likewise, the assasination of Bin Laden should be attributed to the expertise of the military and to not Obama. What exactly does "ill-fated" actually mean,  why scapegoat the President?

     1.  Ill-fated - Marked by or causing misfortune; unlucky.

     2.  Why scape-goat? Do you realize what that truly means?  I doubt it.  But if you make the big decisions, you bear the responsibility.  But suffice it to say that I am an equal opportunity blame spreader.  The military shared in the blame.  But allow me to introduce Civics 101.   The President of the United States of America is the Commander in Chief of the military of the US.  The mission that failed in the sands of far away and long ago now, was at the very least given his approval.

     3.  President Carter tried through all the proper channels.  I give him credit for that.  But the sad part of it is, the mission - which I argued support for in the immediate days after its failure - still failed.   AND HERE IS THE SIGNIFICANT THING I SAID AND YOU MISSED.  THE ENEMY SAW IT AS INEFFECTIVE.

      4.  The cruise missiles, too, THEY SAW as ineffective and cowardly ... no one, pardon the expression.  It cost us none of our blood.    So PLEASE try to figure out I wasn't saying WE WERE COWARDLY in our actions. 

     

    Does ill-fated place blame, why? What if Obama assasination of Bin Laden failed, do we then attack Obama as you placed the blame on Carter on the failed military effort to rescue the hostages?

    You don't think he would be blamed for the failure, if there had been one?  Oh please.  You are surely jesting.

       Do you realize, mr. hostorian, that there were countless voices against the US going to war to support Britain and Free Europe in the days before we enterd WWII?

     

     

    The thread was sent off on a tangent with unnecessary criticism Carter and Clinton and then someone had to bash a Kennedy with crass remarks that he was a good swimmer, did you or anyone else respond to that, why not? . But then the forum is ninety percent far right Republican so this can be expected. Need I list all of the Republicans? I know of only 3-5 posters who talk like Democrats.  (What does THAT mean?   I've been a registered Democrat all my adult life.  But I vote for the candidate I see as most appropriate for the office.  I don't tote the party line and think for myself.  I am willing to be persuaded, my mind isn't set at the party line.  In most cases, as far as the President is concerned, I have had to vote for the lesser of two evils.)  But then political talk radio is mostly Conservative also. Conservatives seem to like gun shows, Rush Limbaugh, talk radio, FOX programming, and forums.(May I say this last line shows just how bigoted you are -




    Alright, I'll try one more time.  I know its a waste of effort, but I'll try.

     

    I voted for Carter and was pleased to at the time. 

    The references I speak of are in bold print above.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    OMG You are so laughable.    

    Sadly, it was really was a waste of time.    

     

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    SinceYaz is responsible



    Hehe ...  TWM .... THAT IS ME!!!

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    I hope so..... he is creepy isn't he Yaz?

    [/QUOTE]

    You know, B, we worked out our considerable differences and even with them we can have fun.  But this guy is one shade past Softy.  I didn't think that was possible.  I shouldn't have tried ... I should have kept to not responding.   Ah well.

     

    To finish it off, once and for all, RIP GENERAL.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     




     

    I hope so..... he is creepy isn't he Yaz?



    You know, B, we worked out our considerable differences and even with them we can have fun.  But this guy is one shade past Softy.  I didn't think that was possible.  I shouldn't have tried ... I should have kept to not responding.   Ah well.

     

    To finish it off, once and for all, RIP GENERAL.



SinceYaz have a great 2013!

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    SinceYaz is responsible



    Hehe ...  TWM .... THAT IS ME!!!

     

     




    Yaz,

    No not you, but pike.

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • Sections
    Shortcuts

    Share