Rivera tears ACL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    Best Ever is always subjective and open for debate.....due to different eras, different leagues etc. Forget the Stats, becuase they are not always comparable.....I have been watching Baseball for 40 years....and in that time I have seen the Sox face most of the Top Closers of their era.....Lyle, Gossage. Quis...Fingers....Eck....and no one gave me the feeling of hopelessness when you saw him enter a game, for the longest period of years, than Mo. Eckersly had 1990 where he was automatic....Mo seems automatic for a decade or more

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    Again, the names I give you won't have the longevity and that is what you will base your analysis on.  But guys like The Quiz dominated for 5-6 consecutive years - his "peak" was probably better than Rivera's and he had a WS ring in the middle of it to boot on a weak hitting, small market team.....Willie Hernandez probably had the best single season a closer ever had...I think he threw 140 innings and won the CY and MVP and WS MVP.......

    The 3 guys I like are Quiz, Goose, and Eck and again, the single best season ever was Willie (32/33).......Mo is right there with all of them. Tough to pick one.  But again, all I am arguing is that he is not the clear, undisputed best of all time.  I believe I've already introduced quite a bit of doubt.  But if you want to your own research look at the Quiz's peak - I think from like 1980 to 1986....In that period he led the league in like 5 straight seasons, pitched OVER 125-130 innings each year, ERA < 2 and WHIP ~1....no comparison to Rivera....now if you want to say that Rivera is the "Best ever in the new era of 1 inning saves where the guy starts a clean inning up by 2 runs" then sure, he is #1.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    Please somebody hand out some pamprin.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]Incredible. Shagging fly balls? Looks like some of our injury luck has rubbed off onto the Yankees.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Thing is Mo's been doing this for years ... shagging bp balls.  Batting practice that is.  Freak accident.  Or maybe a 42 year old frame, no matter how wondrous it may be, finally says no.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : I could care less what you think the unwritten rules of this internet forum are. He's an important part of the Yankees and I'm glad he won't be pitching this year. I didn't see too many Yankees fans feeling bad when Andrew Bailey got hurt, regardless of what a good guy he is.
    Posted by SpruceTrap[/QUOTE] 
    Yeah, I get it, Andrew Bailey being lost to a thumb injury, who has never thrown a pitch for the BoSox is the baseball equivalent of a 42 year old Hall of Famer potentially ending his career in an unpredictable way.There was no celebration when Bailey went down -- the general sentiment was "he's injury prone - I'm not surprised"; but then again you wouldn't know that because you weren't here in early April ...were you? I'm quite sure that you don't care what I think; but I care what the other posters on the board think of me, because I'd like them to respect me and I'd like to have a dialogue with them. Those are  not "unwritten rules"; that's just common sense.
     
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    He always wanted to be an outfielder, but shagging balls is not the smartest thing to do...he will be back...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]Again, the names I give you won't have the longevity and that is what you will base your analysis on.  But guys like The Quiz dominated for 5-6 consecutive years - his "peak" was probably better than Rivera's and he had a WS ring in the middle of it to boot on a weak hitting, small market team.....Willie Hernandez probably had the best single season a closer ever had...I think he threw 140 innings and won the CY and MVP and WS MVP....... The 3 guys I like are Quiz, Goose, and Eck and again, the single best season ever was Willie (32/33).......Mo is right there with all of them. Tough to pick one.  But again, all I am arguing is that he is not the clear, undisputed best of all time.  I believe I've already introduced quite a bit of doubt.  But if you want to your own research look at the Quiz's peak - I think from like 1980 to 1986....In that period he led the league in like 5 straight seasons, pitched OVER 125-130 innings each year, ERA < 2 and WHIP ~1....no comparison to Rivera....now if you want to say that Rivera is the "Best ever in the new era of 1 inning saves where the guy starts a clean inning up by 2 runs" then sure, he is #1.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    OK;so what you're saying is he's the best ever new era and could be the best of all time? I get that ... if you stick around along time you become a compiler; like Don Sutton or Phil Neikro or Lee Smith and it makes your body of work look more impressive than it really is; but wouldn't you agree to be amongst the very best for 15 years; not a compiler ... but a league leader fior 15 years makes you greater than those who turned in shorter bursts of brilliance?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : OK;so what you're saying is he's the best ever new era and could be the best of all time? I get that ... if you stick around along time you become a compiler; like Don Sutton or Phil Neikro or Lee Smith and it makes your body of work look more impressive than it really is; but wouldn't you agree to be amongst the very best for 15 years; not a compiler ... but a league leader fior 15 years makes you greater than those who turned in shorter bursts of brilliance?
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]

    He wasn't a "league leader for 15 years" - he was always top 3, a few times #1 but 15 years as #1?  not even close......
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : He wasn't a "league leader for 15 years" - he was always top 3, a few times #1 but 15 years as #1?  not even close......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
     I also put "amongst" in the post. A question of semantics ... not an attempt to spread misinformation. When I go to the stats page under "league leaders"; his name was there for 15 years. However, if you think that makes my question to you irrelevant, then I will concede that Eckersly, Quisenberry and Gossage were as good or better than  Rivera for certain years, but seeing as you don't want to count longevity and you don't want to count playoff success; I'm going to get off of this train and wish you a fine weekend.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    "Amongst" is true

    Longevity counts and playoffs to an extent but also, PEAK and INNINGS PITCHED....(it's very possible that a closer who only has to pitch 1 inning at a time can have a longer career than a guy who has to pitch 2+ innings at a time and therefore be able to be a "compiler" and have a longer career)

    Have a great weekend as well
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : you are simply deluded. baseball writers, players, managers, and executives rank him as bet of all time. you cant accepot it for unknown reasons. but you come off as a bigger tool than you probably are. 
    Posted by werk45[/QUOTE]

    Good-bye forever Internet Tough Guy
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    Rivera is a class act and is good for baseball.  I never revel in someone else's misfortune keeping in mind that even though these athletes are rivals they are human beings first.

    I hope he recovers and is able to end his career on the mound.

    I also hope he blows every game when he pitches against the sox. Smile
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]Rivera is a class act and is good for baseball.  I never revel in someone else's misfortune keeping in mind that even though these athletes are rivals they are human beings first. I hope he recovers and is able to end his career on the mound. I also hope he blows every game when he pitches against the sox. 
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]

    I suppose that's fair!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : Good-bye forever Internet Tough Guy
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE] Hey werk45; my new internet buddy Andrewmitch is not a "tool".
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]You cannot despise the Yankees more than I do....but that in no way entends to Mariano....he has always been above it all by being a Class Act to the highest degree.....and he is without a doubt the greatest Closer Ever. Here is hoping he is able to recover quick enough to get back on the mound this year so he can end his fabulous career on his own terms.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]


    Uh I was with you up until "hoping he is able to recover quick enough...," as I just as soon he is done and the Yankees miss the play-offs as a repercussion. He had a great career, wishing it over does not make you a bad person. He is all set .... set for life and career wise (HOF).
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    :)  thanks.....good debate....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    What can MLB do to prevent pitchers, and eventually all players, from shagging fly balls? I worry about their well being and god forbid there career is cut short and they cannot make financial ends meet.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]What can MLB do to prevent pitchers, and eventually all players, from shagging fly balls? I worry about their well being and god forbid there career is cut short and they cannot make financial ends meet.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]I'm guessing there is a healthy amount of sarcasm there?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : I'm guessing there is a healthy amount of sarcasm there?
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]


    Why would you think that?  Laughing
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : whoa, I said he's a top 3 closer just not the clear best of all time and that's silly? i'd say what you wrote is "silly"
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Simmer down, Mitch. I was just needling ya ... what's with you today?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]Rivera is a class act and is good for baseball.  I never revel in someone else's misfortune keeping in mind that even though these athletes are rivals they are human beings first. I hope he recovers and is able to end his career on the mound. I also hope he blows every game when he pitches against the sox. 
    Posted by 67redsox[/QUOTE]
    Which makes you a good person!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Rivera tears ACL

    In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : Uh I was with you up until "hoping he is able to recover quick enough...," as I just as soon he is done and the Yankees miss the play-offs as a repercussion. He had a great career, wishing it over does not make you a bad person. He is all set .... set for life and career wise (HOF).
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I didnt say I wanted him to be successful(especially against us).....but he deserves to end his career on the mound, not on the warning track.
     
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