Re: Rivera tears ACL
posted at 5/5/2012 10:43 AM EDT
In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rivera tears ACL : Rivera is cleary the best of the modern closers if one considers both the length of his career and his body of work over what is now almost 2 decades. Eckersley for about a 5 year period with the A's put up some pretty nasty numbers, but his resume falls short of Mo's who's been dominating for 17 years. Who know's what might have been had Eck started his career in the pen. End of the day, if I had to get three outs with a 1 run lead...If I had my choice of Eck in his prime or Mo...I'd take Mo. It was the manner in which Larussa delpoyed Eckersley and the evolution of the set-up guys with Oakland that is chiefly responsible for the way the back end of the pen is used in the modern game... That said, It's alway difficult to compare pitchers from differing era's. Closer's in particular who's role has evolved over time. The Yankees in the 50's were chiefly responsible for starting what has eveloved to the way team build and use the modern bullpen. Then begining in the late 60's into the early 70's. The importance placed on having a reliable arm to finish games began to take on more importance..Rollie Fingers in the early 70's & Goose Gossage in the late 70's are two that come to mind, both were asked to pitch mulitple inning to earn a save, often getting as many as 9 outs. Who had they been used like todays modern closers? Might well have been even more dominating and perhaps with the reduced workload might have been able to extend thier primes. Bruce Sutter in the 80's is the hybred version, where he often was asked to get 6 outs, rarely was asked to get 9 The eveloution of the way the modern closer are used makes it difficult to compare the differing era's but IMHO the genisis started with Fingers who helped to pitch the A's to thee striaght WS tittles. His success and the success of the A's played a key role in the evololution of the position...Gossage, is another example of the evolution of the profile of the modern closer, in that when he was asked to pitch out of the pen, it allowed him to step on the gas peddle and throw the ball by hitters and it is he that is responsible for guys like Papelbon and Mo both beggining thier careers in the pen.
Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]
All good points. That's why I say Rivera is the best of the "Start a clean inning up by 2 runs" closers. That's why a lot of people say the Save stat is over rated. I remembered when even guys like The Steamer would come into the 7th inning, 1 run game, 2 on, 1 out and get of the jam and then finish the game. The Steamer didn't need no stinkin set-up man...Quiz, Willie, Goose, Rollie - they were their own lefty specialists, set up man, and finishers......
I encourage you guys to go back and look at some of the stats - particularily Innings Pitched. 140 innings year after year.....Tough Saves.......That's why I can't give the title to Rivera.......Yes, he did it for a long time but then why not bring up Trevor Hoffman too? Because Hoffman's team didn't play in the largest media market in the history of history and therefore didn't have the resources to make the post season year after year to accumulate post season success.....Here's another knock on Rivera - although he was as COLD AS ICE for the easy saves - 3 up, 3 down.......there was a huge difference in him when (if) the lead off man got on. It completely changed him. He could be rattled. Whether it was throwing a bunt attempt into Centerfield or falling down like Charlie Brown on a line drive hit up the middle. And yes, we have seen him yell at players too (he once yelled "CATCH THE BALL" to Kenny Lofton during a BLOWN SAVE against the Red Sox in yes, 2004 regular season).........
Here are your automatics
Best 3B - Schmidt
Best C - Bench
Best SS - Wagner
Best 2B - Hornsby
Best RF - Ruth
Best CF - Mays
Best LF - Williams
SP - W Johnson
Closer - Eck, Quiz, Goose, Rollie, and yes, Rivera but it is not the same thing as chosing Mike Schmidt over George Brett or Brooks or Chipper....