Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    I know he has yet to be called up, but he will be soon if he keeps this up.  It looks like both teams benefited from this deal.  I know it's only AAA, but 50 RBI already?  Kelly is turning in a solid year in AA too.

    I remember redsoxfan791 compared Rizzo to Mark Grace based off of nothing besides his attempt at trying to sound smart.  I think my Teixeira comparison is looking to be spot on.  He may even end up being better.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Mark Grace - ouch?  Anyhow just like the Hanley trade there are ZERO regrets.  I am happy to give up something of value if we get something special.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]Mark Grace - ouch?  Anyhow just like the Hanley trade there are ZERO regrets.  I am happy to give up something of value if we get something special.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]


    I am in total agreement, Burrito. 

    Besides, when Rizzo makes it into that suburb known as Petco Park ... the HR power will likely diminish.   

    Not that I want anything bad for Rizzo.  As long as he's not playing against teh Sox, I hope he has a marvelous career.

    But he might not make it in the bigs ... and I believe Adrian's showing us his MLB creds ....

    GRRRRREAT COMEBACK, SOX!!!

    (It was 5 - 0 when I went to work  but I kept telling myself they had just scored 5, 6 and 7 runs the prior 3 nights ...) 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Exactly - for the sake of baseball hopefully Rizz has a some great years for San Diego - I know we will get an amazing value with Gonzales; no question!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]Exactly - for the sake of baseball hopefully Rizz has a some great years for San Diego - I know we will get an amazing value with Gonzales; no question!
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Nice to hear that. Why do people think we have to screw the other team? To make it look better?
    The Sox drafted Rizzo and it's a solid reflection on them.

    Consider what SD fans lost! I hope he hits it big for them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    A Gon:  .327   9 HR  37 RBI

    This is a big league line not a minor league one.  Who knows if Rizzo will be anything at the big league level, A Gon is one of the premier MLB players.  I wish SD well but I am very happy to have made that trade and would make it again!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Rizzo will do fine in MLB IMO...Gonzalez was well worth the price..No regrets at all!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    I hope Rizzo makes it as a premier 1st baseman in the bigs. If he does, I'll feel proud knowing he came up in the red sox organization.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Jed Hoyer would not have made the trade if he was not very optimistic about Rizzo.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Look at it from this perspective though. The very next year we would be able to choose from a list of FA 1st basemen named Agon, Fielder or Pujols. We already had an excellent 1st baseman in Youk and could have retained Beltre for a lot less money and he is now 2nd in the league in RBI.

    I am all for getting Gonzalez as he is as close to the perfect fit to this team as we can get but Beltre was a good choice also, with improved team defense, a shorter contract span, a lot less money required and then in 2012 we could have signed Fielder as our future DH potentially. Now we are probably looking at Fielder in Yankee stadium next year. 

    There are lots of permutations in baseball. It is not just an either  / or situation in life unless you are Soren Kierkegaard ( this one is for Moonie! ). 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    The main reason to do the Beltre option instead of Agon? Their names are Rizzo, Kelly and Fuentes. Three of the top prospects in baseball. These are not just draft picks. These are premier mlb level prospects, proven successes in their time in mlb so far.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Would we be slotting Rizzo into the lineup next year and maybe not even need Fielder? After this year's performance so far? Of course we would.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Look on the bright side, when the Padregs can no longer afford him after 6 years, the Sox can sign him as A Gonz career winds down.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]The main reason to do the Beltre option instead of Agon? Their names are Rizzo, Kelly and Fuentes. Three of the top prospects in baseball. These are not just draft picks. These are premier mlb level prospects, proven successes in their time in mlb so far.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Um, no, actually they have nary any time in the majors between them.  They are not proven mlb level prospects ... I am not sure that designation even exists.  They certainly are on the fast track.  But ya just never know.  Lars Andersen was on the fast track too.  In any case, I think the risk-to-reward ratio is changed by the fact that, yes, they had to give up these minor league studs (potential mlb studs) for A-Gon, but they did so to make sure they got their man.  no telling what happens once a guy hits free-agency.  And, as to signing Beltre, Beltre wanted a long-term contract (and got one).  The Sox deemed it (and probably correctly so) too risky on the back end of said contract.  not to mention, if you lock up beltre, you don't have room for an A-Gon/Fielder/pujols on your roster.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Unless you're the LA Lakers, it seems, you have to give up something good in a trade to get something good in return.

    Hanley Ramirez has been outstanding in Florida, but the Sox won in 2007 because they had Beckett and Lowell. Just for winning that World Series alone, I'd make that trade over and over again.

    Gonzalez is headed for what appears to be a .300-35-125 season right now. San Diego had a right and an obligation to get something good in return for a productive player like that. And remember, Gonzalez is going to be putting up those kinds of numbers for the Sox--if he stays healthy--for many, many years to come. He's only 29 afterall. 

    Giving up a player like Gonzalez, in his prime, had to be a tough decision and it had to hurt them with their fan base, so here's hoping that the guys the Sox gave up do, in fact, end up helping the Padres down the road.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    What you guys are rightly noting is also why it's unfair to lump the Gonzalez deal with the Crawford signing as one big "spending spree". Yes, we knew Gonzalez was going to get a big contract, but it wasn't some silly market setting deal, and as we're seeing, he is a truly elite talent. Unless you're a small market team, you do have the right to pay your elite, perfect fit talents good money (as the Twins have with Mauer, for example). Theo knew Gonzalez was exactly what the Sox needed, and we "won" him over with a very fair trade, not by blowing baseball away with free agency dollars.

    Gonzalez did not turn the Red Sox into the Yankees...this was just a fair swapping of resources between a team with good money and a team without it. Great for baseball as a whole.

    The Crawford signing, on the other hand...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Rizzo, #75.Casey #31. Reymond Fuentes, not ranked. That's how highly regarded the "top prospects in baseball" were ranked pre-season by Baseball America. Rizzo's numbers, while eye-popping, are belied by both small sample size and the fact that they are a product of the insanely hitter-friendly PCL, where Ian Stewart looks like Albert Pujols.  I doubt we'd see much return from slotting Rizzo here next year.
    It took a five-year deal to land Beltre (plus an option for a sixth year that will vest at $18 mil IF he stays healthy, 1 year less than Gonzalez) at age 32. Love his defense, and his all-out demeanor, but don't want to pay him until he's 38, when both his bat and glove will likely be in serious decline.
    By signing Gonzalez 3 years in age earlier, and moving Youk to third, you give yourself two of the best corners in the game, third base being pretty weak these days. Youk's defense is no worse than average, and his bat places him squarely in the upper echelon of current third basemen.
    Gonzalez, simply put, is one of the premier hitters in the game, and should deliver value at the plate even in the later years of his contract, and maintain his above-average defense at first.
    I don't even want to think what Prince Fielder is going to look like at age 35 or 36-it's just the kind of kid-in-the-candy-store roster construction you want the Yankees to undertake.
    It's always a bit sad to see well-regarded prospects leave the organization, but in the end, they're just that, prospects. There is no guarantee that they will live up to expectations. If you have a chance to land one of the best players in the game, in his prime years, for that cost, you do it.
    Gonzalez should be as exciting to watch for the next 7 years as Manny was, with none of the drama. I'll take it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe--1. Show --The--Babe--1's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]What you guys are rightly noting is also why it's unfair to lump the Gonzalez deal with the Crawford signing as one big "spending spree". Yes, we knew Gonzalez was going to get a big contract, but it wasn't some silly market setting deal, and as we're seeing, he is a truly elite talent. Unless you're a small market team, you do have the right to pay your elite, perfect fit talents good money (as the Twins have with Mauer, for example). Theo knew Gonzalez was exactly what the Sox needed, and we "won" him over with a very fair trade, not by blowing baseball away with free agency dollars. Gonzalez did not turn the Red Sox into the Yankees...this was just a fair swapping of resources between a team with good money and a team without it. Great for baseball as a whole. The Crawford signing, on the other hand...

    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    LOL...it's a "fair swapping of resources" as long as it wasn't the Yankees.

    Give me a break. There are only a few teams that could trade prospects and assume a $150M++ extension. Don't try and sugarcoat it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI : LOL...it's a "fair swapping of resources" as long as it wasn't the Yankees. Give me a break. There are only a few teams that could trade prospects and assume a $150M++ extension. Don't try and sugarcoat it.
    Posted by --The--Babe--1[/QUOTE]
    There are more than a few-the fact remains that many teams simply won't spend money on players-they are happy enough to accept revenue sharing from teams that have built themselves into national presences and pocket it. The reason the Sox were able to make this deal and sign (overpay)Crawford is that they were proactive in buying out the arbitration and early free agent years of prime young talent such as Lester, Pedroia, and Buchholz, leaving more money to pursue elite players as they becom available.
    Take the money being paid to Drew, Papi, Papelbon, Cameron and Tek off the books next year and they'll be in a position to do so again. It's called roster management.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    Baseball not like other sports baseball is the Have's vs. Have Not's. The have not's have to give up their premier talent before it becomes to expensive. The only way for them to be succesful is to get good prospects in return. The have's are most willing to accept this talent at the chance that one of these prospects may rise to be one of the best players in baseball. RS/Marlin's is perfect example of both teams getting what they hoped for. RS WS Champs in 07, Marlins now have one of the premier players in the game in Hanley. Billy Beane has been probably the most succesful GM in getting top quality talent for stars who are getting close to the big contract they can't afford. To bad baseball can't find a system like football or basketball where the NY Giants have as much a chance as Green Bay year in and year out or basketball where Oklahoma City can still be in playoffs and Knicks are joke of the league. Best of luck to Rizzo/Kelly/Fuentes but I would do that trade again in a heartbeat!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]Unless you're the LA Lakers, it seems, you have to give up something good in a trade to get something good in return.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    Or your 1 former Celtic trading KG to another former Celtic.  

    Hopefully it works out to be a good deal for both  sides a la Hanley/Beckett Lowell.   

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    I have Anthony Rizzo and Casey Kelly stashed on my keeper fantasy baseball team. Kelly is the second youngest player on my 30-man roster (behind Brett Lawrie), but Rizzo is not even the youngest firstbaseman. That honor goes starting Atlanta firstbaseman Freddie Freeman, who is 35 days younger than Rizzo. Freeman and Rizzo are blocked by Albert Pujols, whose contract expires at the season's end.

    Kelly is 23 days younger than Freeman and Lawrie is 106 days younger than Kelly.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]Baseball not like other sports baseball is the Have's vs. Have Not's. The have not's have to give up their premier talent before it becomes to expensive. The only way for them to be succesful is to get good prospects in return. The have's are most willing to accept this talent at the chance that one of these prospects may rise to be one of the best players in baseball. RS/Marlin's is perfect example of both teams getting what they hoped for. RS WS Champs in 07, Marlins now have one of the premier players in the game in Hanley. Billy Beane has been probably the most succesful GM in getting top quality talent for stars who are getting close to the big contract they can't afford. To bad baseball can't find a system like football or basketball where the NY Giants have as much a chance as Green Bay year in and year out or basketball where Oklahoma City can still be in playoffs and Knicks are joke of the league. Best of luck to Rizzo/Kelly/Fuentes but I would do that trade again in a heartbeat!
    Posted by garyhow[/QUOTE]
    The parity argument is patently untrue. According to Joe Posnanski in December 2008:

    20 (2/3) teams have won a World Series in the last 30 years. And by comparison:

    -- Only 14 (<1/2)teams have won the Super Bowl over the last 30 years.
    -- Only 13 (<1/2)teams have won the Stanley Cup over the last 30 years.
    -- Only nine (<1/3)teams have won an NBA title over the last 30 years.

    The Marlins are perhaps the worst example to use for the woes of small market teams. Documents leaked to Deadspin.com showed that in 2007 and 2008, the Marlins made a profit of $49 million, most of which came from the $91 million in revenue sharing they took from MLB and pocketed. they then claimed to be losing money and held up Miami-Dade county for a stadium deal that will ultimately cost taxpayers an estimated $2.3 billion, while the team is on the hook for only $155 million.

    The system is inequitable, to be sure, but until owners are forced to put money they get from the league back into the team, they have no one to blame but themselves. The Rays, and soon the Royals, will show what a mix of young, cheap talent, and smart signings(i.e. Longoria) can do.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI : There are more than a few-the fact remains that many teams simply won't spend money on players-they are happy enough to accept revenue sharing from teams that have built themselves into national presences and pocket it. The reason the Sox were able to make this deal and sign (overpay)Crawford is that they were proactive in buying out the arbitration and early free agent years of prime young talent such as Lester, Pedroia, and Buchholz, leaving more money to pursue elite players as they becom available. Take the money being paid to Drew, Papi, Papelbon, Cameron and Tek off the books next year and they'll be in a position to do so again. It's called roster management.
    Posted by er877[/QUOTE]


    I have a sneaking suspicion Paps and Papi will be w/ the Sox in 2012. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI

    In Response to Re: Rizzo:.376, 12 HR, 50 RBI:
    [QUOTE]Look at it from this perspective though. The very next year we would be able to choose from a list of FA 1st basemen named Agon, Fielder or Pujols. We already had an excellent 1st baseman in Youk and could have retained Beltre for a lot less money and he is now 2nd in the league in RBI. I am all for getting Gonzalez as he is as close to the perfect fit to this team as we can get but Beltre was a good choice also, with improved team defense, a shorter contract span, a lot less money required and then in 2012 we could have signed Fielder as our future DH potentially. Now we are probably looking at Fielder in Yankee stadium next year.  There are lots of permutations in baseball. It is not just an either  / or situation in life unless you are Soren Kierkegaard ( this one is for Moonie! ). 
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]Boom, the problems with waiting is you no longer negotiate in a vacuum, you sign Beltre to play third or you are weak in 2011 waiting for the off season and chance to bid for Puljios who is looking for A-Rod $$$ and years, not getting out bid by somebody for A-Gon and as far as Fielder goes if his agent does not give you pause, his body type should.

    But let's say in baseball operations world only that your tact works and it does have merit. While Rizzo is still hopelessly blocked from a position (and assuming someone will be highly effective DH is risky), there still is Kelly and the Fuentes I believe his name was? So waiting a year maybe makes sense, pass on Beltre, wait for the next FA market and start the year with Lowrie at 3B.

    But in the world the RS do business in there is the cash end of the business and NESN ratings were tanking, the excitement quickly evaporating and at the time the NYY look poised to add Cliff Lee and you aren't winning a prospect race with Tampa anytime soon.

    Adding marquee talent to this team for 2011 season was a matter of ticket sales and NESN ratings. And getting a 29 year old who is the first player that the RS have had you can build a line-up around since Manny took his sct to Mannywood. Three not likely to miss players for one IS a great player is not a bad way to fly in those circumstances.

    And not to splash cold water on Rizzo's stats has anybody ever looked at the next A-Rod's minor league stats? His name is Brandon Wood and he was destined for greatness but was picked of the waiver wire by the Pirates this year. He was waived by the Angels who don't have a thunder packed left side of their infield.

    When Epstein includes his number one pitching prospect you know he weighed the pros and cons hard and of course the Padres got a solid return for the player. Believe it or not IMO win-win trades are good for a team. You make others look silly and trading partners are leery about being next.
     
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