Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : While this admittedly doesn't answer * The Bigger Question , Clemens didn't voluntarilly testify.  He was subpoenaed to testify before Congress when  Congress was investigating McNamee's involvement in PED's in baseball.  McNamee had earlier named Clemens as one of his "customers" (that's my word, not his) while testifying under oath to the same Congressional Committee.  Clemens was subpoenaed so his testimony would either refute or verify McNamee's claims.   If Clemens lied under oath he is guilty of Obstructing a Congressional Investigation and can be sentenced to ~2 years in jail.    ( Pssst .  I think he did!  :-)  )   * The Bigger Question is why Congress is involved in PED's in MLB at all, and I don't have an answer to that one.  All I know is that I watched the original hearing, the one with Sosa, Palmero, Schilling, etc., on TV and it was great theater!
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    Couldn't he have just pleaded the fifth? It's interesting that McNamee is almost irrelevant now, and you don't hear anything about the guy who was, supposedly, supplying players with drugs. Why is that? Isn't that what the questioning was supposed to be about? Guess not. That might involve MLB, and a vast number of players.

    Btw, do you happen to know if it's true that Sosa got out of any questioning because of a language barrier? If true, it would seem any excuse would have sufficed, since, I believe, the government would have had translaters.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Couldn't he have just pleaded the fifth? It's interesting that McNamee is almost irrelevant now, and you don't hear anything about the guy who was, supposedly, supplying players with drugs. Why is that? Isn't that what the questioning was supposed to be about? Guess not. That might involve MLB, and a vast number of players. Btw, do you happen to know if it's true that Sosa got out of any questioning because of a language barrier? If true, it would seem any excuse would have sufficed, since, I believe, the government would have had translaters.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Yes, he could have pled the 5th - and only appeared guilty.  Instead (IMO) his ego wouldn't let him do that so instead he's going to be PROVEN guilty.  That was probably not a good decision on his part.  :-)

    As to Sosa and the language barrier, the only thing I can offer you is what happened during the televised hearings - which were somewhat of a dog-and-pony show to begin with. 
    Sosa would be asked a question and his immediate response would be (with my sincere apologies to anyone who's ever experienced any kind of language barrier) "Wha'?" He'd be asked the same question again and give the same response, "Wha'?"  Sometimes followed by,"I no unnerstand tha' ".  It became laughably predictable. 

    The whole Clemens thing was kinda sorta "collateral damage" in the McNamee investigation.  After McNamee named Clemens the Committe almost HAD to call Clemens to testify - and it was alllll downhhill for Roger after that. 

    Ya, I'm not sure what's happened to Brian McNamee now.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Yes, he could have pled the 5th - and only appeared guilty.  Instead (IMO) his ego wouldn't let him do that so instead he's going to be PROVEN guilty.  That was probably not a good decision on his part.  :-) As to Sosa and the language barrier, the only thing I can offer you is what happened during the televised hearings - which were somewhat of a dog-and-pony show to begin with.  Sosa would be asked a question and his immediate response would be (with my sincere apologies to anyone who's ever experienced any kind of language barrier) "Wha'?" He'd be asked the same question again and give the same response, "Wha'?"  Sometimes followed by,"I no unnerstand tha' ".  It became laughably predictable.  The whole Clemens thing was kinda sorta "collateral damage" in the McNamee investigation.  After McNamee named Clemens the Committe almost HAD to call Clemens to testify - and it was alllll downhhill for Roger after that.  Ya, I'm not sure what's happened to Brian McNamee now.
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    I think if they could have convicted him, they would've the first time. And I know what happened the first time, someone made a mistake. I just don't buy any of it. At the same time, they seem to be able to keep the heat on one person who appears to be their actual target. It seems they want to keep this "face of steroids" going, and let them sweat it out.

    And clearly they knew Sosa didn't speak English, so not having a translater seems like he wasn't their target. If anything, they could have brought him back with a translater, if they wanted to, instead of dropping it because of that, which is unbelievable.

    I also think that McNamee was also not the target. How could the trial be about him, and he's free to go. If the trial was about him supplying steroids, than even if they had a separate problem with Clemens, he would still be somewhat of a focus. The fact that he just walked away doesn't seem right to me. He always seemed kind of a plant to me.

    Something is definitely wrong with this picture, and, as I've said, I'm not into selecting one person and singling them out -- for anything.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    The Bigger Question is why Congress is involved in PED's in MLB at all, and I don't have an
     answer to that one.

    Well, baseball is exempt from antitrust laws and, therefore, is close to a legal monopoly.  If it's anyone's business to poke around in this then I guess Congress gets the job.  However, I do think it was a colossal waste of tax payer money in the end ... especially since they didn't get around to it until it the MLB had started to act on the issue and Congress didn't actually do anything about it anyway.

    The bigger question is whether they will retire Clemens prison number.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : I think if they could have convicted him, they would've the first time. And I know what happened the first time, someone made a mistake. I just don't buy any of it. At the same time, they seem to be able to keep the heat on one person who appears to be their actual target. It seems they want to keep this "face of steroids" going, and let them sweat it out. And clearly they knew Sosa didn't speak English, so not having a translater seems like he wasn't their target. If anything, they could have brought him back with a translater, if they wanted to, instead of dropping it because of that, which is unbelievable. I also think that McNamee was also not the target. How could the trial be about him, and he's free to go. If the trial was about him supplying steroids, than even if they had a separate problem with Clemens, he would still be somewhat of a focus. The fact that he just walked away doesn't seem right to me. He always seemed kind of a plant to me. Something is definitely wrong with this picture, and, as I've said, I'm not into selecting one person and singling them out -- for anything.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    I agree the whole thing stinks but it's pretty much common knowledge they don't take nicely to people lying under oath.  In that regard, Clemens has not been singled out.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : I agree the whole thing stinks but it's pretty much common knowledge they don't take nicely to people lying under oath.  In that regard, Clemens has not been singled out.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Maybe you missed my point. Clemens didn't have a language barrier. I don't know who else was called but I don't think anyone. And the, supposed, main focus, has been completely forgotten. What a coincidence. His "lying under oath" is a joke IMO, and the fact that they are still pursuing this with one person who wasn't even the main target, though IMO it seems he was, is outrageous.

    People may not like him, but this is the USA, and what happened in this trial should bother everyone. Not liking a person shouldn't change that.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

     His "lying under oath" is a joke IMO

    Clearly, Congress and the Dept of Justice disagree.  It's kind of a big deal, actually.  Don't get me wrong, I think the entire Congressional inquiry was a joke, but lying under oath has consequences.  This is a cornerstone of the justice system and with good reason. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE] His "lying under oath" is a joke IMO Clearly, Congress and the Dept of Justice disagree.  It's kind of a big deal, actually.  Don't get me wrong, I think the entire Congressional inquiry was a joke, but lying under oath has consequences.  This is a cornerstone of the justice system and with good reason. 
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    See, IMO it's called a set up. Maybe even entrapment. Do you really think it's a coincidence they went after someone that everyone would have no sympathy for? Where they wouldn't question the trial or what went on there? You're very naive.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

     I wouldn't mind seeing Clemens in a different kind of pinstripes. Both he and Bonds are a couple of arrogant jerks, who figured they could lie under oath and get away with it. It's always the cover-up that gets these guys in real trouble and that others have done this shouldn't give them a pass. Maybe spending some time busting rocks will be a humbling and positive experience for both of them.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    You can't go before congress and lie, particularly the way Clemens did it.  He could have pleaded the 5th.  He could have been humble.  But he stepped up to the microphone, head high, back straight, and lied.  Can't get away with it.  And then he wants to drag the other guy's name through the mud. 

    Is Clemens still in the process of suing his old trainer for lying about Clemens' steroid use? 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : See, IMO it's called a set up. Maybe even entrapment. Do you really think it's a coincidence they went after someone that everyone would have no sympathy for? Where they wouldn't question the trial or what went on there? You're very naive.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you up to a point.  I also think it was a bit of a set-up in that some members of Congress wanted to make an example of Clemens, but I also think Clemens and his lawyer walked into it.  Had Clemens pled the 5th he'd be out and walking (ya, I know he is now. I'm speaking figuratively here) with his only care being whether or not he'd be voted into the Hall.  But he couldn't do that!

    Had he pled the 5th McNamee's testimony would have neither been corroborated or refuted and would have to stand on it's own merits.  Another situation where Roger would have been guilty in the eyes of the public but maybe not in the eyes of the legal system.

    Roger was an idiot.  He had three choices.  He could have said nothing (5th amend.), told a lie, or told the truth.  He chose to tell a lie and now he's in hot water up to his..... over it.  

    You can blame Congress for pointing the gun if you want, but Roger pulled the trigger.

    And again, this isn't about steroids or baseball, it's about telling lies to a Congressional Investigation. At least that's what Congress is saying.  Are they hiding behind that in an effort to crucify Roger?  I wouldn't rule out that possibility either, but the BIGGER ISSUE is his lying under oath and that issue is a lot bigger than steroids or baseball. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]The Bigger Question  is why Congress is involved in PED's in MLB at all, and I don't have an  answer to that one. Well, baseball is exempt from antitrust laws and, therefore, is close to a legal monopoly.  If it's anyone's business to poke around in this then I guess Congress gets the job. Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Just an excellent, excellent point, and one I hadn't thought of.  Thanks.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    The whole thing is a sham and a waste of taxpayer money.  Steroids and HGH are everywhere.  Steroid dealers are in every gym. Heroin and crack dealers are on the street corners of every city.  This nation has a million and one problems , but let's spend even more money to re-try Clemens for " lying to Congress." People lie under oath in courtrooms every day. What a total fiasco.  How would any U.S. citizen like to be dragged before Congress, put under oath and asked personal or embarrassing questions?  Violent criminals roam the streets , but let's lock up a basically law abiding citizen.  This is a disgrace.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]The whole thing is a sham and a waste of taxpayer money.  Steroids and HGH are everywhere.  Steroid dealers are in every gym. Heroin and crack dealers are on the street corners of every city.  This nation has a million and one problems , but let's spend even more money to re-try Clemens for " lying to Congress." People lie under oath in courtrooms every day. What a total fiasco.  How would any U.S. citizen like to be dragged before Congress, put under oath and asked personal or embarrassing questions?  Violent criminals roam the streets , but let's lock up a basically law abiding citizen.  This is a disgrace.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]


    Agree with you.  It is just a waste of taxpayer's money to try Clemsns again.  The goverment needs to start focusing on the real economic problems that exist in this country.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]See, this isn't about baseball and/or steroids.  It's about telling lies to Congress when one is under oath!  Whether or you believe members of Congress lie to us every day (and I DO believe that) the members of Congress are offended that Roger lied to THEM.  If they don't prosecute him again, aren't they saying that it's ok for any Tom, Dick, or Harry to sit in front of them and say anything they want to say with no fear of repurcussions?  They can't have that.  WE can't have that.  The judicial system can't have that.
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    You have it 100% correct. IMO if it's proven he lied to Congress throw the book at him.

    Next Nov let's hope this country collectively throws the book at every member of Congress who has been there more then 4 years.  If Congress is willing to take the time to clean up baseball us voters should take the time to clean up Congress.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.



    What a waste of taxpayers' money.  


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Maybe you missed my point. Clemens didn't have a language barrier. I don't know who else was called but I don't think anyone. And the, supposed, main focus, has been completely forgotten. What a coincidence. His "lying under oath" is a joke IMO, and the fact that they are still pursuing this with one person who wasn't even the main target, though IMO it seems he was, is outrageous. People may not like him, but this is the USA, and what happened in this trial should bother everyone. Not liking a person shouldn't change that.
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Clemens does have a language barrier. Remember those years when he pitched for the Sox that he spoke "Rogerese" and nobody knew what the hell he was talking about? Hey, if Sosa could get a break because there was no interpreter, maybe Roger could skate on a technicality again because there is no interpreter that speaks his language.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : You have it 100% correct. IMO if it's proven he lied to Congress throw the book at him. Next Nov let's hope this country collectively throws the book at every member of Congress who has been there more then 4 years.  If Congress is willing to take the time to clean up baseball us voters should take the time to clean up Congress.
    Posted by tetonman50[/QUOTE]

    Truer words was never spoke... ah err written.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chez2. Show Chez2's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]What a waste of taxpayers' money.  
    Posted by Ice-Cream[/QUOTE]

    I agree
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : I agree with you up to a point.  I also think it was a bit of a set-up in that some members of Congress wanted to make an example of Clemens, but I also think Clemens and his lawyer walked into it.  Had Clemens pled the 5th he'd be out and walking (ya, I know he is now. I'm speaking figuratively here) with his only care being whether or not he'd be voted into the Hall.  But he couldn't do that! Had he pled the 5th McNamee's testimony would have neither been corroborated or refuted and would have to stand on it's own merits.  Another situation where Roger would have been guilty in the eyes of the public but maybe not in the eyes of the legal system. Roger was an idiot.  He had three choices.  He could have said nothing (5th amend.), told a lie, or told the truth.  He chose to tell a lie and now he's in hot water up to his..... over it.   You can blame Congress for pointing the gun if you want, but Roger pulled the trigger. And again, this isn't about steroids or baseball, it's about telling lies to a Congressional Investigation. At least that's what Congress is saying.  Are they hiding behind that in an effort to crucify Roger?  I wouldn't rule out that possibility either, but the BIGGER ISSUE is his lying under oath and that issue is a lot bigger than steroids or baseball. 
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    Of course, you're right. But the "lying" shouldn't have happened if they didn't have the right to put him up to be questioned in the first place. And, again, I'm just wondering why they completely forgot about McNamee when he clearly was supplying players with steroids, and it was supposed to be what the investigation was about. How do they justify that?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]The whole thing is a sham and a waste of taxpayer money.  Steroids and HGH are everywhere.  Steroid dealers are in every gym. Heroin and crack dealers are on the street corners of every city.  This nation has a million and one problems , but let's spend even more money to re-try Clemens for " lying to Congress." People lie under oath in courtrooms every day. What a total fiasco.  How would any U.S. citizen like to be dragged before Congress, put under oath and asked personal or embarrassing questions?  Violent criminals roam the streets , but let's lock up a basically law abiding citizen.  This is a disgrace.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Again, great post. Let's get a guy who supposedly did steroids while playing baseball (yes, I know it's about lying after the fact), so we can keep America safe, and forget about all the murderers, violent criminals, and pedophiles roaming the streets. I'm sure they've never lied to Congress because Congress doesn't concentrate on them. They're too busy worrying about who's doing steroids in baseball.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemmens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Clemens does have a language barrier. Remember those years when he pitched for the Sox that he spoke "Rogerese" and nobody knew what the hell he was talking about? Hey, if Sosa could get a break because there was no interpreter, maybe Roger could skate on a technicality again because there is no interpreter that speaks his language.
    Posted by antibody[/QUOTE]

    LOL.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Of course, you're right. But the "lying" shouldn't have happened if they didn't have the right to put him up to be questioned in the first place. And, again, I'm just wondering why they completely forgot about McNamee when he clearly was supplying players with steroids, and it was supposed to be what the investigation was about. How do they justify that?
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]

    Let's get the horse before the cart here.  The courts (or Congress) has the legal right to subpoena anybody - you, me, anybody, but they usually confine their subpoenas to those who have information vital to the crime they're investigating.  And when those people are subpoenaed they have to confirm UNDER OATH that they're telling the truth. 
    To get really basic about it, the court system is based on people's doing their civic duty by telling the truth in their testimony.  However, in the real world people will often NOT tell the truth, even when under oath.  That's why perjury is a crime and proven perjury can result in a stay in a less-than-enjoyable hotel, funded by the government.  :-) 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    And BTW, IMO this has turned into a great thread with lots of good opinions being thrown around.  Thanks to all who are participating.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.

    In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roger Clemens is going to be retried for perjury in April. : Let's get the horse before the cart here.  The courts (or Congress) has the legal right to subpoena anybody - you, me, anybody, but they usually confine their subpoenas to those who have information vital to the crime they're investigating.  And when those people are subpoenaed they have to confirm UNDER OATH that they're telling the truth.  To get really basic about it, the court system is based on people's doing their civic duty by telling the truth in their testimony.  However, in the real world people will often NOT tell the truth, even when under oath.  That's why perjury is a crime and proven perjury can result in a stay in a less-than-enjoyable hotel, funded by the government.  :-) 
    Posted by S5[/QUOTE]

    I'd like to tell you a true story, and you can tell me what you think about it.

    I was on jury duty and was one of a large group of people to possibly be selected for the jury in a drug trial. For whatever reason, instead of selecting 12 possible members and questioning them, they questioned all of us at once in the courtroom. They asked if anyone would have a problem serving on the jury. I said I thought drugs should be legalized. They completely cleared the courtroom of other people, except for the prosecuting attorneys, the defendants, the defense attorneys -- and me.  They put me on the stand, and both sides began grilling me with questions.  IMO I should have been excused because of that comment, at the very least by the prosecuting attorneys, but, apparently, they didn't want to do that.

    They asked me questions like, "If you're presented with evidence are you saying you wouldn't convict them because of what you believe?" I said, "I never said that. I'm just tired of hearing and reading about teenages being sent to jail for experimenting with drugs and getting huge prison sentences."  That was one of the many questions they were asking me, most of which I said, "I already answered that". I, personally, couldn't believe the prosecution was so determined to keep me there. It was ridiculous. Did I mention that they hadn't even selected 12 people yet? They had me on the stand, and everything I was saying was being documented. I felt like I needed a lawyer. All they kept doing was asking me more questions.

    Finally, I just turned and gave the judge a look like...are you kidding me with this? When are you going to jump in here? Only then, did he finally say I was dismissed, and could leave. I got up, and the defense jumped up and said, "No, We want her!"  I rolled my eyes, and I looked at the judge, and believe me I wasn't happy, and he said no, she's free to go. I was finally able to get up and leave. I was about two seconds aways from telling them all to go to hell, judge included, which probably would have put me in jail. lol

     

Share