Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    Works for me
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester



    ...enough said.

    Make an apology to the team, management and the fans for the Chicken and Beer fiasco--they would both be free at last. It would be over--the fans would forgive them both and the team would go on a streak---keep the status quo--you might as well send them both home for the balance of the season --they will not contribute. 

    The attitude of "I can do anything I want on my day off" has become the mantra seperating Beckett from the fans and that was the attitude last season--putting him ahead of his teammates with the lambs following: Lackey, Lester and Buch.
    It's unfortunate for Beckett--more unfortunate for all of RS Nation. The team has to buy him out--maybe even buy out Lester---nothing more destructive than a couple of guys thinking they are more important than TEAM.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    In Response to Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester:
    [QUOTE]by Michael Silverman/Boston Herald "Let’s boil down the problems of the 2012 Red Sox to a real short list. At the top is Josh Beckett , and then comes Jon Lester . That’s where it begins and that’s where it ends. It’s not the offense, it’s not the manager, it’s not the schedule, it’s not the payroll, it’s not the coaches, it’s not bad luck, it’s not the fans, it’s not the defense, it’s not the bullpen, it’s not the rest of the rotation, it’s not the bench players, it’s not the minor-leaguers, it’s not the rookies, it’s not the owners, it’s not the media, it’s not the heat and it’s not the humidity. And it’s not up for debate, either....'
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Totally wrong.....Root of RED SOX woes.................THE MEDIA !!!!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    In Response to Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester : Totally wrong.....Root of RED SOX woes.................THE MEDIA !!!!!!
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    The media made them pitch terrible, yeah that makes sense.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    ... yeah, Beckett and Lester, but also...

    Ownership that doesn't care anymore; Lucchino as an incompetent oaf who cut his GM off at the knees before the season started, and didn't deal with the obvious wars that would start between the pro-Bobby and anti-Bobby coaches, etc.; entitled guys like Ortiz and Pedroia who haven't gotten behind BobbyV -- I know it's hard, but he is the manager, eh guys?

    A gm that's too much of a toady make his own decisions.  Of course, he knows the only reason they gave him the job was because he was cheap and easy.  It would have been too much trouble to go find a real gm -- management would have had to put in a little extra work -- and Larry wouldn't allow it, anyway.

    And a lack of heart.  That's why you know that the big rally will fall a run short of winning, or why they can't get any momentum going when they do actually muster a good win.

    If management doesn't care, then why should anybody else? -- except, of course, for the guys like Ciriaco and Middlebrooks, and even Ross, who have a stake in starting or energizing their careers. 




     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    OP is about right. Injuries have also played a role.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    Even if Beckett and Lester were playing better, they still wouldn't be a legitimate contender.  Who's the closer?  Who's in LF?  Who's the SS?  How many HRs and RBIs does AGON have?

    Can't wait until next year:  Lester/Lackey/Beckett/Buch/Dubront
     
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    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    In Response to Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester:
    [QUOTE]OP is about right. Injuries have also played a role.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    While they have had a ton of injuries, they still lead mlb in runs scored.   So blaming this season on injuries is not true.      Yes maybe a few more wins without the injury bug, but they would still have to score 10+ runs to win instead of the typical 5 or 6, especially when the 2 "ACES" pitch.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    Together, Lester and Beckett are 10-19 with a 5+ ERA. Each has only five wins, which matches Daniel Bard -- who hasn't pitched in two months.

    But here's the most telling stat: In their combined 42 starts, the Red Sox are 15-27 (.357). If you reverse that, which I don't think is at all unreasonable, it's an entirely different season.

    Lester and Beckett should be the front end of the rotation. Instead, Buchholz, Doubront, Morales, and even Cook have all pitched better.

    This seems pretty easy to digest.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    Correct Lloyd...the stats are plain to see and brutal in their conformation of our top two aces....how many times does someone have to point out that if these two guys simply pitched .500, we would be fighting the yanks for first?

    apparently never enough because some people are still talking about injuries or the media?????  i didnt think the sox were the only team suffering from those two maladies...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    In Response to Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester : Totally wrong.....Root of RED SOX woes.................THE MEDIA !!!!!!
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    You are joking right?
     
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    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    Even if the team was .500 for their starts, the Red Sox would be tied for the Wild Card lead.

    When your #1 and #2 starters both stink and are pitching like #5's, it's pretty
    obvious why this team is going nowhere.

    Beckett and Lester.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    So, recognizing the issue, do we throw rotten tomatoes at our former heros or do we find a way to appreciate what they have given us and try to find a way to constructively address the need to help them?

    How do we address this issue positively instead of just bashing players?

    Are we really that shallow that the very guys that helped us enjoy our finest moments can't enjoy some of our support in tough times, with the hope their struggles might turn well for us again?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    It is not all W and L folks it is a team game

    Beckett has 10 games he should have won with any normal run support at all.
    He has had 2 QS where he has a ND (and RS lost) and has 3 QS where he has lost.
    That is 5 QS where he could have a W with more run support.

    He has 10 QS and 4 where he went 6+ and only 4 runs.

    As stated with the run support Clay has gotten Josh could have 14 Ws.
    Never mind that with normal run support he'd have 10 W at a minimum.

    BTW for the one who said at least one game 8 innings with no runs or 1 run. He has had 3 with 7 innings and 2 with 8 innings.

    The 5 QS he has lost or has a ND that could have been Ws are the difference between where they are and 1st in the WC.

    Josh's record is not what we may expect but it is not all his fault.

    Just like people praise Clay because thru June he was 8-2 with only 4 QS.
    Josh thru June had 8 QS and had a losing record
    Clay with 4 QS and had a winning record.

    DATE▲ W▲ L▲ IP▲ R▲ ER▲    
    7-Apr A 0 1 4.2 7 7 TRASH L
    13-Apr H 1 0 8 1 1 QS W
    18-Apr H 0 1 7 3 3 QS L
    24-Apr A 1 0 6 2 2 QS W
    29-Apr A 0 1 6.2 3 3 QS L
    10-May H 0 1 2.1 7 7 TRASH L
    15-May H 1 0 7 0 0 QS W
    20-May A 1 0 7.2 1 1 QS W
    26-May H 0 0 7 2 2 QS ND
    31-May H 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    6-Jun H 0 1 8 2 2 QS L
    11-Jun A 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    30-Jun A 0 0 6 2 2 QS ND
    6-Jul H 0 0 5 6 6 TRASH L
    15-Jul A 1 0 6 3 3 QS W
    20-Jul H 0 1 6 5 4 VERY GOOD L
    25-Jul A 0 1 7 4 4 VERY GOOD L
    31-Jul H 0 0 2.2 1 1 ?????? ?????
    8-Aug H 0 0 5 8 8 TRASH ND
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    In Response to Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester:
    [QUOTE]Even if Beckett and Lester were playing better, they still wouldn't be a legitimate contender.  Who's the closer?  Who's in LF?  Who's the SS?  How many HRs and RBIs does AGON have? Can't wait until next year:  Lester/Lackey/Beckett/Buch/Dubront
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]
    You do realize he has one of the, if not the, highest AVG of all MLB players wRSIP? or does that fact not support your argument since you specifically called out his name.

    This team had decen replacements for injured players, SS is always a mess for the Red Sox and I agree trading for Bailey as closer was just dumb. But, where there is smoke there is fire and the fire is made of Beckett and Lester fat arses.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    It think that's one of the big problems with the team. Too many are trying to scapegoat one or two players instead of accepting the concept that it's a team game and everyone has to take some degree of responsibility.

    Yes, you can put Beckett and Lester at the top of the list -- fine -- but  there have been plenty of games wherer the Sox got good pitching from them and others and didn't get any offense. That has only been partially balanced by games where the pitching was poor but they had an offensive outburst.

    We've seen the all-or-nothing offense all year.

    There's no doubt that if Lester and Beckett have been normal, the team would have a better record but it hasn't been just them. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    " See how far pitching has taken the Baltimore Orioles, not!"

    Ah, but if the Orioles had our offense. See, that's how it works. Defense (pitching) + offense...

    Here's a review of the last ten World Series entrants: 


    All of them had very good pitching and most of them had an "ace" on the staff.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    I started a thread with exactly the same theme as this one and I got 1 response.  Where was everyone 2 days ago?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Root of all Red Sox woes-Beckett & Lester

    A Reversal of Beckett & Lester's Won Loss record would put the sox in a tight AL East battle

    A Reversal of Beckett & Lester's Won Loss record would put the sox in a tight AL East battle

    posted at 8/7/2012 6:49 PM EDT
     
    Posts: 1305
    First: 9/2/2006
    Last: 8/9/2012
    at 5-9 for the "big two" it is very easy to see why this team is where they are.  A reversal of their putrid records takes a .500 club from 55-55 and gives them a solid 63-47 record and in an honest to goodness fight with the Yankees for the East division  title and no mere talk of chasing the newly created second wild card. They would be 1 game out and tied in wins to be precise with the Yankees enjoying 2 games in hand at 63-45.  In my mind this is where they should be despite all of the injuries which tally above 1100 missed games combined  which is an MLB record. For all of the talk about the excessive injuries they really are not the primary issue with this team amazingly enough.

    This highlights just how poor Beckett and Lester have been this season and for the final month of last season. They should rightfully be embarassed and to his credit Lester seems to be.
     
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