Ross out, Linares in!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Ross out, Linares in!

    The Sox have put some butchers in LF over the last few years:

    Hermida,  Bay,  Nava,... and Ross fits right in.

    Will Ross help the team facing LHP playing RF in Fenway?  Look at Reddick looking awful out there last night.

    Now is the time for youth and defense to have a shot, Theo went with the gloves in 2004:

    Obviously Middlebrooks should be given a long look!

    I don't think Ross has a ggod enough bat against LHP to compensate for his awful fielding even in LF, nevermind RF or CF.  The same for DMac in CF and RF.

    If Linares is a slightly above average RF as advertised, he will have to better than Ross even if he hits a bit less.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]The Sox have put some butchers in LF over the last few years: Hermida,  Bay,  Nava,... and Ross fits right in. Will Ross help the team facing LHP playing RF in Fenway?  Look at Reddick looking awful out there last night. Now is the time for youth and defense to have a shot, Theo went with the gloves in 2004: Obviously Middlebrooks should be given a long look! I don't think Ross has a ggod enough bat against LHP to compensate for his awful fielding even in LF, nevermind RF or CF.  The same for DMac in CF and RF. If Linares is a slightly above average RF as advertised, he will have to better than Ross even if he hits a bit less.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]
    Apparently the scorer called that ball a double -- because Ross never got a glove on it. That was the scary thing. A ball that hits the bottom of the wall in that watch-pocket LF has to be caught. In the old days, when bench-jockeying was rife, someone would have yelled, "When do the seals come on."  Ross butchered the play -- and not the first one, at that.
    What the Sox are going to do about "the outfield" is anyone's guess. Pray until Ellsbury returns? Hope that if Crawford ever returns, he won't repeat HIS brutal fielding last season?
    Middlebrooks made a very good play last night. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    And Tom bravely gets off the Ross bandwagon, for a player, pre-aquisition clammering, that I said was a dumpster profile worthy of that title.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy stilleatsworms. Show MikeNagy stilleatsworms's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]Do you really think it matters. We throw 4 major league caliber guys out there night after night and expect them to win. We are lucky to even be close to 500 with this bunch. They have overachieved to date. We have no stopper or even consistant starter. We have no bench. Most of the guys we put out there could not be bench players elsewhere. Ross looked stupid on one play but he has been way better than anyone could have expected offensively. Last place is where this team belongs and until major trades are made it will stay that way.
    Posted by teddybaseball009[/QUOTE]

    so we have a chance
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    hard to argue with that. i blame the recession. 180 million doesn't buy what it used to.

    Especially when close to 100 million of that is on the DL!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    Yeah.  Ross is only on pace for 34 homers and 122 RBI's...I say we DFA him and bring up a 28 year old guy in AA.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    The Sox have put some butchers in LF over the last few years:

    Hermida,  Bay,  Nava,... and Ross fits right in.

    Will Ross help the team facing LHP playing RF in Fenway?  Look at Reddick looking awful out there last night.

    Now is the time for youth and defense to have a shot, Theo went with the gloves in 2004:

    ...

    I don't think Ross has a ggod enough bat against LHP to compensate for his awful fielding even in LF, nevermind RF or CF.  The same for DMac in CF and RF.

    If Linares is a slightly above average RF as advertised, he will have to better than Ross even if he hits a bit less.

    LF defense is highly over-rated, especially when half your games are in Fenway. The Sox have used this philosophy effectively in the past: Rice, Greenwell, Manny, Bay...

    I have been unpleasantly surprised by just how poorly Ross has fielded thus far, but I do not feel his poor fielding in LF outweighs his potent bat vs LHPs. Now, vs RHPs might be another story. His play in RF might be another story as well, particularly in Fenway.

    tom, you know I have been all for giving Linares a look, but sitting Ross right now as our offense struggles, is not what I'd like to see.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    Ross has .321 BABIP with .241 ISO. When his offense regresses his D will make him about a replacement level player or worse.  I doubt his poor defense will change.

    Linares will provide more value b/c he can actually play CF and RF.

    Small sample on pace observations are folly.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    ROSS, REPKO, SALTY, AVILES, SHOPPACH, BYRD, MCDONALD
    SWEENEY, ALBERS, PUNTO.....
    ALL REPLACEMENT PARTS...ON THE CHEAP.
    THANK YOU, BEN CHERINGTON
    THE 2012 RED SOX = THE 1962 METS

    THANK YOU, FRONT OFFICE FOR THIS DISASTER
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]The Sox have put some butchers in LF over the last few years: Hermida,  Bay,  Nava,... and Ross fits right in. Will Ross help the team facing LHP playing RF in Fenway?  Look at Reddick looking awful out there last night. Now is the time for youth and defense to have a shot, Theo went with the gloves in 2004: ... I don't think Ross has a ggod enough bat against LHP to compensate for his awful fielding even in LF, nevermind RF or CF.  The same for DMac in CF and RF. If Linares is a slightly above average RF as advertised, he will have to better than Ross even if he hits a bit less. LF defense is highly over-rated, especially when half your games are in Fenway. The Sox have used this philosophy effectively in the past: Rice, Greenwell, Manny, Bay... I have been unpleasantly surprised by just how poorly Ross has fielded thus far, but I do not feel his poor fielding in LF outweighs his potent bat vs LHPs. Now, vs RHPs might be another story. His play in RF might be another story as well, particularly in Fenway. tom, you know I have been all for giving Linares a look, but sitting Ross right now as our offense struggles, is not what I'd like to see.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Linares will get his shot.  He will see AAA soon and will probably get a look later this year.  There is no reason for a panic move at this point with Cody Ross.  He isn't the answer but he isn't the question either.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]The Sox have put some butchers in LF over the last few years: Hermida,  Bay,  Nava,... and Ross fits right in. Will Ross help the team facing LHP playing RF in Fenway?  Look at Reddick looking awful out there last night. Now is the time for youth and defense to have a shot, Theo went with the gloves in 2004: ... I don't think Ross has a ggod enough bat against LHP to compensate for his awful fielding even in LF, nevermind RF or CF.  The same for DMac in CF and RF. If Linares is a slightly above average RF as advertised, he will have to better than Ross even if he hits a bit less. LF defense is highly over-rated, especially when half your games are in Fenway. The Sox have used this philosophy effectively in the past: Rice, Greenwell, Manny, Bay... I have been unpleasantly surprised by just how poorly Ross has fielded thus far, but I do not feel his poor fielding in LF outweighs his potent bat vs LHPs. Now, vs RHPs might be another story. His play in RF might be another story as well, particularly in Fenway. tom, you know I have been all for giving Linares a look, but sitting Ross right now as our offense struggles, is not what I'd like to see.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Mr Moon, I used to feel that way about LF defense, but after closely following it for three years I have changed my thoughts.   Jason Bay and Manny were very accurate throwers who put up big assist numbers in  LF at Fenway.  Bay had 15 in 2009 and had 23 in 2007/08 in Pitt.  While Manny had 47 over a 5 year stretch with Boston.   I have not seen evidence that Ross has as good of an arm, and he makes loads of misplays.

    Over 2010 and 2011 Gardner and Swisher played about the same amount of games and Gardner had 70 more put outs.  Of course he has better range and more balls head that way.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    I'm with Snake all the way on this, and regulars may recall that I've been beating the drum for Linares as much as carnie and moonslav.
    I was even against the Byrd trade when announced, look how stupid THAT reaction was.Move JC to AAA and supplant Hsuan-Lin, get him some time there.He might replace D-Mac or even Byrd down the road, but Ross's bat vs. leftys is key right now.
    We all tend to think the grass is greener, and overrate the kids coming up. BIG difference between Cuban League or AA pitching and the Show, or Teddy Ballgame's MFL, as some say.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    I cannot imagine anything dumber than advocating a defense-first approach to the Red Sox left fielder position.  Let's not forget that's where Manny Ramirez played, and I will guarantee he would not have caught that ball last night.  Ross is very, very far from being Manny at the plate, but the principle still applies--the Sox left fielder needs to hit first and field a distant second. 

    Carl Crawford did in fact bring speed, etc to that position last year, and most of us complained bitterly because he wasn't hitting.  And we were right. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]Ross has .321 BABIP with .241 ISO. When his offense regresses his D will make him about a replacement level player or worse. 
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Disagree.  His career BABIP is .302, he isn't that far off of his career number which you would expect to increase slightly moving from pitchers parks his entire career to Fenway.  He's had multiple seasons with a BABIP above where it is right now.

    His ISO is a bit out of line though (.048 above his career mark).
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]Yeah.  Ross is only on pace for 34 homers and 122 RBI's...I say we DFA him and bring up a 28 year old guy in AA.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Tom...I think you just got "Snakebit"!

    As incredible as it sounds I've got to agree that Tom has a point though. The major problem being do we have space on the 25 man roster for that move? I don't think so.

    I advocated that Linares might be a decent choice (over Byrd) but I have to admit that was probably a wrong decision at this point. There must be something about Linares we are not seeing or why wouldn't he be in AAA? I know there wasn't space for everyone but if Linares were that good why wouldn't he be one of the ones in AAA, especially with all the problems we've had at the mlb level.

    Linares looks good but someone, somewhere at the mlb level doesn't think he's the guy.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    Ross was cheap. He's a decent platoon player. And in Fenway, his offensive numbers should go up compared to SF. And he's a proven big game player.

    The problem is he should be a platoon guy. He's not being given that opportunity.

    He's starting to make Manny look good defensively at this point though. Some guys really struggle when dealing with the wall. They don't track the ball well enough to know if it's going to be catchable. There wasn't even much wind yesterday on that play. I've seen Crawford make similar plays though.

    Sweeney has looked good all around though. Sweeney has been a good pickup. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in! : Tom...I think you just got "Snakebit"! As incredible as it sounds I've got to agree that Tom has a point though. The major problem being do we have space on the 25 man roster for that move? I don't think so. I advocated that Linares might be a decent choice (over Byrd) but I have to admit that was probably a wrong decision at this point. There must be something about Linares we are not seeing or why wouldn't he be in AAA? I know there wasn't space for everyone but if Linares were that good why wouldn't he be one of the ones in AAA, especially with all the problems we've had at the mlb level. Linares looks good but someone, somewhere at the mlb level doesn't think he's the guy.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]I can't figure it out boomerangs. He's got an OPS of 1.015 and I can't remember seeing an E next to his name in the box score. Mike Andrews has him ranked way down on his board as well. I guess because he was hurt for so long people are a little more down on him. I also think the Sox are still pretty high on Lin, and Lin does have a very nice arm. I do think that if jc is going to make the majors he needs to do it in the next couple of years.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in! : I can't figure it out boomerangs. He's got an OPS of 1.015 and I can't remember seeing an E next to his name in the box score. Mike Andrews has him ranked way down on his board as well. I guess because he was hurt for so long people are a little more down on him. I also think the Sox are still pretty high on Lin, and Lin does have a very nice arm. I do think that if jc is going to make the majors he needs to do it in the next couple of years.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    Perhaps F.O. is "showcasing " Che Hsuan Lin as part of a potential trade and think he draws more scouting in AAA ?
    But the conservative approach suggests letting Linares PROVE he can stay healthy and productive for a consistent period before 40 man addition. Maybe three whole months of good defense and .800 + O.P.S. in AA or AAA, and THEN a possible call-up in September.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]Yeah.  Ross is only on pace for 34 homers and 122 RBI's...I say we DFA him and bring up a 28 year old guy in AA.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    This thread is ridiculous.  We got a backup/platoon OF with post-season experience for $3m/1 year contract who is tearing the cover off the ball and still people complain.

    If he was a great fielder too he would be on $10m/year, multi-year contract on another team.

    Is there any player someone won't b itch and moan about?  I don't think so, even Pedey has been moaned about because he stood up for his teammate when their idiotic manager publically criticised him.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]Ross has .321 BABIP with .241 ISO. When his offense regresses his D will make him about a replacement level player or worse.  I doubt his poor defense will change. Linares will provides more value b/c he can actually play CF and RF. Small sample on pace observations are folly.  
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Over 9 years and 782 PAs Ross vs LHP is .281/.348/.559/.907....for 1.67% of our payroll.

    I am satisfied with that.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    Chilli - You've got it all wrong.  Ross should definitely be replaced by Linares.  Linares is sporting a MiLB career OPS of about .820 and he's racked up about 200 minor league PAs ... over three seasons.  You give far too much credit to Ross' MLB career .780 OPS over nearly 3000 PAs.  Don't pay any attention to his vLHP stats, the fact that he is supposed to be platooning with Sweeney, the 40 man roster issues created by moving Linares or the fact that Ellsbury will be back eventually.  That's all just a smoke screen created by our incredibly inept FO.  If only BC read this bored ... er, board.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    If Ross is such a valuable commodity then he will bring a nice reliever in a trade?  He isn't of course because his bat will regress but his D won't progress.

        Don't pay any attention to his vLHP stats, the fact that he is supposed to be platooning with Sweeney,

    The same applies to JCL!

    his thread is ridiculous.  We got a backup/platoon OF with post-season experience for $3m/1 year contract who is tearing the cover off the ball and still people complain.

    Chill, Why did Theo trade Nomar and his 2004 118 OPS+?  Are you advocating playing Ross in RF when CC is back over A competent fielder who also bats RH and also will hit better in Fenway?

    Ross has a 23% HR/FB ratio at the moment.  He had a .730 OPS in 2011, What kind of OPS differential would not make Linares a better value?

    782 PAs Ross vs LHP is .281/.348/.559/.907...   

    Ross VS LHP
    '12      .733
    '11      .698
    '10      .883
    '09      .959


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Ross out, Linares in!

    In Response to Re: Ross out, Linares in!:
    [QUOTE]If Ross is such a valuable commodity then he will bring a nice reliever in a trade?      

    The same applies to JCL! 
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]
    I think you've hit the nail on the head.  If JCL is such a valuable commodity, we should trade him for a nice reliever.

    Seriously, you guys need to get over it.  Like every Sox prospect, I hope JCL keeps on crushing in the minors and helps the big team out.  I really do.  But, c'mon, at this point he has 200 MINOR LEAGUE PAs.  If he ends up being the real deal, I know you (the collective "pro JCL" you, not you Tom-UK) will all crow about how you called it.  But will you all admit being wrong if JCL ends up as a non-prospect by next year?  After all, that is the fate of most minor leaguers ... especially 27 year olds in AA.
     

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