Roster moves that need to be made

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I always believe that you should put your best team on the field. Does our best really include guys like Snyder, Diaz, Holt, Wilson and De La Torre?  Gomes , Carp and Nava in the outfield ?  And, playing shorthanded is not a good idea. If a guy is hurt, put him on the DL unless you are certain that he will only miss two or three games.  I know all of the arguments against this, but they are not strong enough .

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    I'll use the 2007 Red Sox team as an identifiable example of some players even a championship team is forced to use over the length of a long season. We had relatively low injuries to the rotation that saw 3 guys get over 30 starts (Dice-K, Beckett & Wake) and Schilling get 24 starts, but look at some of these names:

    IP  Pitcher

    135 Julian Tavarez

    54 Kyle Snyder

    34 Joel Pineiro

    54  Kyle Snyder

    20 JC Romero

    36 Gagne, Corey and Hansack combined

    Our starting SS had a .643 OPS and some or our bench gave us this:

    232 PA Cora  .684 (Great defense though)

    218 Hinske .714

    172 Wily Mo .675

    127 Mirabelli .637

    61 Kielty .622

    33 K Cash  .391

    We survived these performances and still won a ring.

     

     

    Note: the 2004 Sox saw Gabe Kapler (.700 OPS) get more PAs in RF than anyone else, Pokey Reese (.574) more PAs at SS than Cabrera or Nomar, and 2 pitchers (Wake & Lowe) get 180+ IP and have ERAs above 4.85.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Absolutely. Sometimes you have to use guys that you may not ordinarily want to. But if you have better options, then you should use them. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    I always believe that you should put your best team on the field. Does our best really include guys like Snyder, Diaz, Holt, Wilson and De La Torre?  Gomes , Carp and Nava in the outfield ?  And, playing shorthanded is not a good idea. If a guy is hurt, put him on the DL unless you are certain that he will only miss two or three games.  I know all of the arguments against this, but they are not strong enough .

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    I'll use the 2007 Red Sox team as an identifiable example of some players even a championship team is forced to use over the length of a long season. We had relatively low injuries to the rotation that saw 3 guys get over 30 starts (Dice-K, Beckett & Wake) and Schilling get 24 starts, but look at some of these names:

     

    IP  Pitcher

    135 Julian Tavarez

    54 Kyle Snyder

    34 Joel Pineiro

    54  Kyle Snyder

    20 JC Romero

    36 Gagne, Corey and Hansack combined

    Our starting SS had a .643 OPS and some or our bench gave us this:

    232 PA Cora  .684 (Great defense though)

    218 Hinske .714

    172 Wily Mo .675

    127 Mirabelli .637

    61 Kielty .622

    33 K Cash  .391

    We survived these performances and still won a ring.

     

     

    Note: the 2004 Sox saw Gabe Kapler (.700 OPS) get more PAs in RF than anyone else, Pokey Reese (.574) more PAs at SS than Cabrera or Nomar, and 2 pitchers (Wake & Lowe) get 180+ IP and have ERAs above 4.85.



    Moon - But, they had Ortiz at 117 RBI, Lowell at 3B, Manny and Youkilis with over 80 RBIs, Pedroia with a .317 average and every starter outside of Pedroia over 60 RBI. Papelbon and Okajima in the bullpen with Timlin, DelCarmen and Lopez.

    This team doesn't compare to that team, both from the production standpoint and from the number of quality bullpen arms.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Very good thread, well thought out comments by everyone, without the bickering.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    As some of us thought, JBJ has been called up along with Brandon Workman being added to the 40-man roster. DeLaTorre sent back, like I thought, and Wilson was placed on the DL for a thumb issue.

    Brandon Workman has great numbers with runners on which suggestes he works well from the stretch. Hopefully he can bring that success with him to the MLB level.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Javi60. Show Javi60's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Dont forget in 07 Sox had Manny and Youks behind Ped and Papi... 

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    The best or healthiest 25 players is what we need.

    I think Huntzinger will be the next call up. He pitched an inning in relief for the PawSox.  He currently carries a 1.80 ERA in less than 20 outings. 

    If not Huntzinger maybe we'll see Rubby as it appears Alfredo left after 2/3 of an Inn. with an injury.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    I always believe that you should put your best team on the field. Does our best really include guys like Snyder, Diaz, Holt, Wilson and De La Torre?  Gomes , Carp and Nava in the outfield ?  And, playing shorthanded is not a good idea. If a guy is hurt, put him on the DL unless you are certain that he will only miss two or three games.  I know all of the arguments against this, but they are not strong enough .

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    I'll use the 2007 Red Sox team as an identifiable example of some players even a championship team is forced to use over the length of a long season. We had relatively low injuries to the rotation that saw 3 guys get over 30 starts (Dice-K, Beckett & Wake) and Schilling get 24 starts, but look at some of these names:

     

    IP  Pitcher

    135 Julian Tavarez

    54 Kyle Snyder

    34 Joel Pineiro

    54  Kyle Snyder

    20 JC Romero

    36 Gagne, Corey and Hansack combined

    Our starting SS had a .643 OPS and some or our bench gave us this:

    232 PA Cora  .684 (Great defense though)

    218 Hinske .714

    172 Wily Mo .675

    127 Mirabelli .637

    61 Kielty .622

    33 K Cash  .391

    We survived these performances and still won a ring.

     

     

    Note: the 2004 Sox saw Gabe Kapler (.700 OPS) get more PAs in RF than anyone else, Pokey Reese (.574) more PAs at SS than Cabrera or Nomar, and 2 pitchers (Wake & Lowe) get 180+ IP and have ERAs above 4.85.

     



    Moon - But, they had Ortiz at 117 RBI, Lowell at 3B, Manny and Youkilis with over 80 RBIs, Pedroia with a .317 average and every starter outside of Pedroia over 60 RBI. Papelbon and Okajima in the bullpen with Timlin, DelCarmen and Lopez.

     

    This team doesn't compare to that team, both from the production standpoint and from the number of quality bullpen arms.



    That was a different era, but your point is well taken. The Manny-Ortiz combo was deadly.

    This team has shown strengths in areas not seen in a while:

    1) leading the league in SBs. Are you kidding me? The Red Sox?

    2) Our top 3 bench guys have over 135 PAs and OPS of .734 (Gomes on the rise), .939 (Iggy still amazes), and .978 (Carp a surprise).

    3) Our lowest OPS by batting slot is .707 (8th) - we had a .631 in the 8th slot and .712 in the 1 slot in '07.

    4) 5 runs a game on the road- a little better than '07.

    I'd take the '07 team over this one, but the league is different now.

    We have some weaknesses to address, but so do all teams.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to JohnBoy1933's comment:

     

    Sounds like what Grandpa  Walton told my softball coach on Walton Mountain years ago. He said " Always put your best players on the field".  My Grandpa wasn't that well read but he always had common sense. Such a simple concept.

     



    Good night Mama.   Good night Daddy. Good night Elizabeth. Good night Jim Bob. Good night John Boy. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Iggy doesn't move from SS until he retires! Cripes you guys think that Bogaerts is a good SS and you might be right but Iggy is a once in a lifetime SS! The plays he made tonight show me what a SS with range can do! He stole one sure hit and if Brad Miller wasn't flying down the first base line he would have been out at first on a hit so deep in the hole between SS and third that noone in their right mind would even think Iggy could get to it let alone make it a close play at first. Bogaerts is a great young player and he will more than likely be a star for several years but it won't be at SS. Third base belongs to Cecchini, he is the next Wade Boggs! OBP out of this world and we are not talking about just high A you can now add in AA. The sox biggest need is for one of the kid starters to start pitching like they belong and maybe Lester can pull his head out of his backside.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    I think maybe three guys that have said nothing while Webster has gotten his share of starts are going to strut their stuff soon. Workman's here, probably Rubby will come today replacing Webster who needs more seasoning and next week it will be Ranaudo.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    Iggy doesn't move from SS until he retires! Cripes you guys think that Bogaerts is a good SS and you might be right but Iggy is a once in a lifetime SS! The plays he made tonight show me what a SS with range can do! He stole one sure hit and if Brad Miller wasn't flying down the first base line he would have been out at first on a hit so deep in the hole between SS and third that noone in their right mind would even think Iggy could get to it let alone make it a close play at first. Bogaerts is a great young player and he will more than likely be a star for several years but it won't be at SS. Third base belongs to Cecchini, he is the next Wade Boggs! OBP out of this world and we are not talking about just high A you can now add in AA. The sox biggest need is for one of the kid starters to start pitching like they belong and maybe Lester can pull his head out of his backside.



    I agree on Iggy at SS for life.

    I still think Bogaerts looks better at 3B than Cecchini, but I'm not sure who is the better fielder there. We may not have to make that call until 2015.

    By the way, Boggy has not been too shaby at getting on base either:

    10 DSL      .396

    11 Green  .324

    12 Salem .378

    12 Portld  .351

    13 Portld  .407

    13 Pawt   .364 (93 ABs)

    Cecchini:

    11 Lowell .398

    12 Green  .394

    13 Salem .469

    13 Portld .521 (58 ABs)

     

    Cecchini is clearly an OBP machine and has bested Bogaerts at every level, but he is also 2 years older than Bogaerts.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Websters inconsistencies should be enough to send him back to AAA. We will need another BP arm as Breslow threw a lot of pitches last night and Aceves injured himself not warming up enough.

    Workman could be available. RDLR could pitch as well. His next day falls on where Webster would pitch, Sunday. JBJ was a great move and will allow us to let Ells or Vic rest some on the OF.

    4 more games until we get a much needed 4-5 day break. I expect more moves before the ASB. There will be some new arms in the pen tonight and in Oakland.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    internal fix if possible is definitely preferable as teams pay thru the nose for trading deadline deals for relievers. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    RS inquired NYM about Parnell, but were rebuffed when they wanted Bradley. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Teams are certainly going to try and take advantage of the Sox thinking they are desperate for middle relievers. Middle relievers are a dime a dozen and should not be worth a good prospect. They are middle relievers for a reason, inconsistent pitchers who arent good enough to be a starter or closer. We can find an internal option unless some team decides to be reasonable.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Teams are certainly going to try and take advantage of the Sox thinking they are desperate for middle relievers. Middle relievers are a dime a dozen and should not be worth a good prospect. They are middle relievers for a reason, inconsistent pitchers who arent good enough to be a starter or closer. We can find an internal option unless some team decides to be reasonable.

     



    Parnell is not a middle guy, but an arguably coming into his own type closer that is currently  in demand by a bunch of teams looking to fill a similar need. As far as reasonable is concerned, you have to give up something to get something, especially when there are multiple suitors; offering a half dozen spare parts is a pipe dream.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    Webster and Aceves sent back, Beato and Wright are in Sattle.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Teams are certainly going to try and take advantage of the Sox thinking they are desperate for middle relievers. Middle relievers are a dime a dozen and should not be worth a good prospect. They are middle relievers for a reason, inconsistent pitchers who arent good enough to be a starter or closer. We can find an internal option unless some team decides to be reasonable.

     



    Parnell is not a middle guy, but an arguably coming into his own type closer that is currently  in demand by a bunch of teams looking to fill a similar need. As far as reasonable is concerned, you have to give up something to get something, especially when there are multiple suitors; offering a half dozen spare parts is a pipe dream.

     




    I understand all that. My point was I dont like to give up much for middle relievers. Personally, I think bailey will be our closer by the end of the year. I wouldnt mind looking into KRod as a late inning guy, even if not closer. But he could be in both roles.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    Every reliever is just a failed starter....even mariano rivera

     



    Correct, except for maybe Wilhelm, Radatz, Lyle, and a few others; however now they're sometimes groomed in the minors, college, even high school or earlier.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Teams are certainly going to try and take advantage of the Sox thinking they are desperate for middle relievers. Middle relievers are a dime a dozen and should not be worth a good prospect. They are middle relievers for a reason, inconsistent pitchers who arent good enough to be a starter or closer. We can find an internal option unless some team decides to be reasonable.

     



    Parnell is not a middle guy, but an arguably coming into his own type closer that is currently  in demand by a bunch of teams looking to fill a similar need. As far as reasonable is concerned, you have to give up something to get something, especially when there are multiple suitors; offering a half dozen spare parts is a pipe dream.

     

     




    I understand all that. My point was I dont like to give up much for middle relievers. Personally, I think bailey will be our closer by the end of the year. I wouldnt mind looking into KRod as a late inning guy, even if not closer. But he could be in both roles.

     



    For a middle reliever, yes; too risky, unless it's a blue chipper, and even then.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I always believe that you should put your best team on the field. Does our best really include guys like Snyder, Diaz, Holt, Wilson and De La Torre? 

     



    Wilson and De La Torre are part of the ever changing cast of characters in the bullpen, necessitated by injuries and various flameouts.  What do you propose - do you think Rubby De La Rosa is the magic cure?  He got shelled his last time out. 

    quote--

    I think a lot of people here and elsewhere are going to be perplexed when Ruby  get to the Red Sox because, like Webster, he's going to get shelled a lot.  Both have fastballs that are as straight as arrows and both have had control troubles, and are far as internal help for our bullpen we sure as ell don't need anuy more Mortensens, Wilsons and DeLaTorre's.  Yes, getting relievers is a crapshoot but depending on the type mentioned above is like playing Russian Roulette.  Now we have Workman up.  Fingers crossed that is better than those forementioned duds above.

     




     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Roster moves that need to be made

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    I always believe that you should put your best team on the field. Does our best really include guys like Snyder, Diaz, Holt, Wilson and De La Torre? 

     

     



    Wilson and De La Torre are part of the ever changing cast of characters in the bullpen, necessitated by injuries and various flameouts.  What do you propose - do you think Rubby De La Rosa is the magic cure?  He got shelled his last time out. 

     

    quote--

    I think a lot of people here and elsewhere are going to be perplexed when Ruby  get to the Red Sox because, like Webster, he's going to get shelled a lot.  Both have fastballs that are as straight as arrows and both have had control troubles, and are far as internal help for our bullpen we sure as ell don't need anuy more Mortensens, Wilsons and DeLaTorre's.  Yes, getting relievers is a crapshoot but depending on the type mentioned above is like playing Russian Roulette.  Now we have Workman up.  Fingers crossed that is better than those forementioned duds above.

     




     




    I am a bit skeptical about DeLaRosa and Webster also. The idea of the blockbuster with L.A. was to unload the bad contracts. I doubt that the Dodgers had to include top pitching prospects to complete the trade. I don't think they would have given us those guys if they thought they were that good. I think the jury is very much still out on them.

     
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