Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would you want someone that slow in the 3rd spot ???

    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, the number 3 slot is about OBP and SLG%, RBIs and clutch hits. Speed is about 149th on the list of wants from the 3 slot.

    It never ceases to amaze me how you continually focus on only the negative when it comes to Papi, when there is so much positive going on all around you with this guy.

    (BTW, you know that the speedster Pedey hit into more DP last year than Papi, right?)

    [/QUOTE]


    well we can solve this easily.  You are a stat head, so where did Farrell have Ortiz play most of the season, 3rd or 4th?  how about the post season, did Ortiz even see the 3rd slot?

    [/QUOTE]

    Papi has batted 4th almost exclusively over the past few years. The Sox did have Papi bat 3rd and Manny 4th back in the day, but I would have flipped those two, as I felt Manny was the better overall hitter, while Papi had a little more HR power to bat 4th.

    I don't pretend to be better than Theo, Ben, Tito or John, but I have my ideas about line-up construction that, that at times, have differed from the Sox choices.

    I understand why they batted Pedey 3rd last year, and liked that idea better than him up 2nd, since it allowed Napoli to bat 5th not 4th, thereby lengthening our line-up. I did mention last year, that at least vs righties, I'd have preferred Papi 3rd and Pedey 4th, but I'm not hung up on it, and was not and am not critical of John for what he did.

    The way I see it, Papi is our best overall hitter. In an ideal world, he should bat 3rd, but with no clear cut great clean-up hitter, batting Papi 4th is not a big deal to me. Pedey up 3rd makes sense in many ways too, but now that Ellsbury is gone, a good argument could be made for this line-up:

    1) Victorino

    2) Pedey

    3) Ortiz

    4) Napoli

    then hope one of the kids can rise and shine enough to thrive in the 5 slot.

    I'm also fine with this...

    1) Nava/Gomes

    2) Victorino

    3) Pedey

    4) Papi

    5) Napoli

    as this "lengthens" the line-up by making the 3-4-5 slots stronger, as well as upgrading the 6-7-8 slots by moving everyone else down a notch

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would you want someone that slow in the 3rd spot ???

    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, the number 3 slot is about OBP and SLG%, RBIs and clutch hits. Speed is about 149th on the list of wants from the 3 slot.

    It never ceases to amaze me how you continually focus on only the negative when it comes to Papi, when there is so much positive going on all around you with this guy.

    (BTW, you know that the speedster Pedey hit into more DP last year than Papi, right?)

    [/QUOTE]


    well we can solve this easily.  You are a stat head, so where did Farrell have Ortiz play most of the season, 3rd or 4th?  how about the post season, did Ortiz even see the 3rd slot?

    [/QUOTE]

    Papi has batted 4th almost exclusively over the past few years. The Sox did have Papi bat 3rd and Manny 4th back in the day, but I would have flipped those two, as I felt Manny was the better overall hitter, while Papi had a little more HR power to bat 4th.

    I don't pretend to be better than Theo, Ben, Tito or John, but I have my ideas about line-up construction that, that at times, have differed from the Sox choices.

    I understand why they batted Pedey 3rd last year, and liked that idea better than him up 2nd, since it allowed Napoli to bat 5th not 4th, thereby lengthening our line-up. I did mention last year, that at least vs righties, I'd have preferred Papi 3rd and Pedey 4th, but I'm not hung up on it, and was not and am not critical of John for what he did.

    The way I see it, Papi is our best overall hitter. In an ideal world, he should bat 3rd, but with no clear cut great clean-up hitter, batting Papi 4th is not a big deal to me. Pedey up 3rd makes sense in many ways too, but now that Ellsbury is gone, a good argument could be made for this line-up:

    1) Victorino

    2) Pedey

    3) Ortiz

    4) Napoli

    then hope one of the kids can rise and shine enough to thrive in the 5 slot.

    I'm also fine with this...

    1) Nava/Gomes

    2) Victorino

    3) Pedey

    4) Papi

    5) Napoli

    as this "lengthens" the line-up by making the 3-4-5 slots stronger, as well as upgrading the 6-7-8 slots by moving everyone else down a notch

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Nice post and one thing I like about Ortiz is I have never heard him complain about batting 3rd or 4th.  He kind of goes with the flow with that.  And yes, I would have had him bat behind Manny as well. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    splits

    batting 3rd:

    .291 / .571 / .980

    batting 4th:

    .276 / .515 / .873

    3rd sounds good to me......

    [/QUOTE]


    it only matters what sounds good to farrel with obvious input from david.  How many rbi's and runs scored did he have at each and again, where did he play most, 3rd or 4th?

    [/QUOTE]

    Batting 3rd:
    2,896 AB's

    640 RBI's

    Runs: 547

    Batting 4th:

    1,910 AB's

    365 rbi

    276 RS

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    my math isnt the best but...

    batting 3rd = 1 rbi every 4.5 AB's

    batting 4th = 1 rbi every 5.2 AB's

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would you want someone that slow in the 3rd spot ???

    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, the number 3 slot is about OBP and SLG%, RBIs and clutch hits. Speed is about 149th on the list of wants from the 3 slot.

    It never ceases to amaze me how you continually focus on only the negative when it comes to Papi, when there is so much positive going on all around you with this guy.

    (BTW, you know that the speedster Pedey hit into more DP last year than Papi, right?)

    [/QUOTE]


    well we can solve this easily.  You are a stat head, so where did Farrell have Ortiz play most of the season, 3rd or 4th?  how about the post season, did Ortiz even see the 3rd slot?

    [/QUOTE]

    Papi has batted 4th almost exclusively over the past few years. The Sox did have Papi bat 3rd and Manny 4th back in the day, but I would have flipped those two, as I felt Manny was the better overall hitter, while Papi had a little more HR power to bat 4th.

    I don't pretend to be better than Theo, Ben, Tito or John, but I have my ideas about line-up construction that, that at times, have differed from the Sox choices.

    I understand why they batted Pedey 3rd last year, and liked that idea better than him up 2nd, since it allowed Napoli to bat 5th not 4th, thereby lengthening our line-up. I did mention last year, that at least vs righties, I'd have preferred Papi 3rd and Pedey 4th, but I'm not hung up on it, and was not and am not critical of John for what he did.

    The way I see it, Papi is our best overall hitter. In an ideal world, he should bat 3rd, but with no clear cut great clean-up hitter, batting Papi 4th is not a big deal to me. Pedey up 3rd makes sense in many ways too, but now that Ellsbury is gone, a good argument could be made for this line-up:

    1) Victorino

    2) Pedey

    3) Ortiz

    4) Napoli

    then hope one of the kids can rise and shine enough to thrive in the 5 slot.

    I'm also fine with this...

    1) Nava/Gomes

    2) Victorino

    3) Pedey

    4) Papi

    5) Napoli

    as this "lengthens" the line-up by making the 3-4-5 slots stronger, as well as upgrading the 6-7-8 slots by moving everyone else down a notch

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Papi-Manny 3-4 set up was due to Francona's preference for L-R-L-R lineup and having lefty leadoff hitters for most of his tenure.  Probably would have flipped them otherwise.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

     a quick peek at Manny's splits indicates he is about equal performance whether batting 3rd or 4th.  much smaller sample size batting 3rd but avg & ops is about deadon.

    something tells me he could've batted in any spot in the order and produced scintillating numbers.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would you want someone that slow in the 3rd spot ???

    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, the number 3 slot is about OBP and SLG%, RBIs and clutch hits. Speed is about 149th on the list of wants from the 3 slot.

    It never ceases to amaze me how you continually focus on only the negative when it comes to Papi, when there is so much positive going on all around you with this guy.

    (BTW, you know that the speedster Pedey hit into more DP last year than Papi, right?)

    [/QUOTE]


    for a stat head that is not really a fair statement.

    Dustin played in 160 games last year and had 641 at bats.

    David played in 137 games last year and had 518 at bats.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, they both had about the same GiDP rate, but the difference is, BILL is not complaining about the "speedy" Pedey batting 3rd.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would you want someone that slow in the 3rd spot ???

    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, the number 3 slot is about OBP and SLG%, RBIs and clutch hits. Speed is about 149th on the list of wants from the 3 slot.

    It never ceases to amaze me how you continually focus on only the negative when it comes to Papi, when there is so much positive going on all around you with this guy.

    (BTW, you know that the speedster Pedey hit into more DP last year than Papi, right?)

    [/QUOTE]


    for a stat head that is not really a fair statement.

    Dustin played in 160 games last year and had 641 at bats.

    David played in 137 games last year and had 518 at bats.

    [/QUOTE]

    your stats arent fair either.
    the real stat would be how many times up with less than 2 outs man on first base.

    [/QUOTE]

    PAs with...       Papi  Pedey

    men on base:  328  354

     

    Men on 1B with less than 2 outs:

    Pedey  168  (24 GiDP)

    Papi     138  (21 GiDP)

     

    ABs:

    Pedey  159/24  .151 (.829 OPS)

    Papi      124/21 .169 (.986 OPS)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    Papi-Manny 3-4 set up was due to Francona's preference for L-R-L-R lineup and having lefty leadoff hitters for most of his tenure.  Probably would have flipped them otherwise.

     

    Agreed, and although I do see the advantage to the L-R-L thing, I think it is overrated.

    One interesting note on the Papi 3rd/Pedey 4th idea is...

    Pedey by slot position (Note small sample sizes at some slots):

    1) .712 (406 PAs)

    2) .839 (2773)

    3) .800 (1020)

    4) 1.117 (139)

    Batting 4th does not have a big enough sample size to prove anything, but certainly one cannot point to his numbers batting 2nd (or 3rd) and claim that is where he must bat.

    Personally, I'd like to see at least see Papi up 3rd vs RHPs. Getting a few more PAs over the year wouldn't hurt either.

    Like I said, just my preference- not meant to be anywhere near a slam on Theo/Tito or Ben/Jhn.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    "So, they both had about the same GiDP rate, but the difference is, BILL is not complaining about the "speedy" Pedey batting 3rd."

    Being the runner that's out at 2nd (the front end of a GIDP) is also part of the speed factor. It's not nothing, but I think DH and 1st are two positions where you would only greet speed as a pleasant surprise ...

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to lasitter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    "So, they both had about the same GiDP rate, but the difference is, BILL is not complaining about the "speedy" Pedey batting 3rd."

    Being the runner that's out at 2nd (the front end of a GIDP) is also part of the speed factor. It's not nothing, but I think DH and 1st are two positions where you would only greet speed as a pleasant surprise ...

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd like to have 9 Papi's in my line-up and could care less if we end up with 5 team SBs as a result.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    I guess Sox management does not believe in Papi's demise.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I guess Sox management does not believe in Papi's demise.

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    i cant believe he is still taking up a roster spot.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i cant believe he is still taking up a roster spot.

    [/QUOTE]

    Eh, don't worry, it won't be for long.  I hear that heel is bound to give out any time.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    Papi bashers silent for a day.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Papi bashers silent for a day.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Day's far from over, moon.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    No sooner does crazy BILL return to Papi bashing...

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !


    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !


     


    all I know is he was on both my fantasy teams


    and i still can't find anyone to make an offer on one


     


    Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing.
    - Warren Spahn


    It’s not how hard you practice when somebody is watching, it’s how hard you practice when nobody is watching.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    Too bad this guy gets on base so much and clogs the base paths for others.

    That .980+ OPS is a sure sign, he's over-the-hill.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    Don't forget to bump geo's 'fat, lazy and unmotivated' thread. :-)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    One day Papi might just decline to the point of not being a plus. I have never seen the point in trying to be the first to pick that day.

    Some have been "picking that day" for years now.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Rumors of Papi's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated !

    We should endeavour to differentiate between the intelligent attention-seekers and the really, really stupid attention-seekers like Algernon-666.

     
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