Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami "clinic"

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    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I actually think this is good news.  Not that guys are still using, but that investigators are gathering a lot more info on how these operations work and how the stuff moves.  The war on PED's in baseball is winnable. 

     




     

    Kinda like how we are winning the war on illegal drugs in America?



    Any time there is money to be made, someone will do something that is wrong.  Locking up Gotti wasn't going to stop someoine from becoming the next mafia don.  Locking up a Madoff won't stop someone else from stealing you rmoney.  So do we stop punishing people?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

     



    The purists / historians started the witchhunt.  I personally never gave a crap that longstanding records were broken; however, purists did.  These purists frustrate me.  They are the reason why it took way too long to incorporate instant replay.  Bring on instant replay, bring on quest tech (or whatever its called).

     

    "Blah, blah, blah, human element"

    Shut up w/ that crap!  Getting the call right is more important.  

    The game doesnt need to be preserved, it needs to be modernized.  All these owners are scared white men afraid of change.  They proved it when they colluded against Mark Cuban.  He would be great for the sport.

    These same DBs are the ones moaning about long-standing records being broken.  Guess what?  You shouldnt be comparing stats across eras anyways.  Its a foolish and overly simplistic comparison to begin with!!

    But thats the reason why PED use flys under the record in other sports.  Because baseball purists started a witch hunt because they didnt want to see records broken.  Give me a break.

     



    Allow me to rebutt, as a semi-purist.  I agree that the sanctity of records is no basis for a witch hunt. And that a witch hunt is ridiculous since the league and fans everywhere basically provided the needles. However, as a semi-purist, I found the game significantly less beautiful in the 'roid era.  The recent return to pitching dominance has made the game whole again.  So, THIS should be the reason for The Clampdown.  Of course, as we are seeing, there is no way to stay ahead of the PED curve, so it is still going to happen.  I have no answer for this.  maybe it is better to just let the juice flow and the homeruns sail.  But, I much prefer the game when you have to be a real hitter to put 30 out in a year and where pitchers can attack the strike zone without fear of every inside fastball being cleaned out with a 500 foot homerun by every pre-roid-punch-and-judy hitter.

     

     




     

     

    As a baseball semi-purist and amateur historian, I disagree.

     

    What started this "witch hunt" was actually at some point an honest attempt to clean up the game because baseball had reached a point where younger athletes felt steroids, et. were the only way to make it to the majors.  However, the media and casual fanbase are the ones I constantly hear crying cheat for one very simple reason - they hate any form of cheating that leads to more home runs.  When a layer is caught now, I never hear anyone say "Oh no!  This makes him a bad role model who will influence teenagers to turn to steroids."  I do hear "Take away his MVP and make him inelgible for Cooperstown!!"

     

    Anyone citing "sanctity of the records has no clue about the history of the game.  Baseball records are about the shoddiest in all of sports.  I sometimes think fans believe the game was invented in 1869 and stayed exactly the same until Jose Canseco showed up with a syringe. 

     

    Baseball records are all over the place with rule changes, culture changes, season lengths, etc.  How can anyone really defend the "sanctity" of the records the way baseball keeps them?  Rule changes like foul ball strike/not a strike or "last seen fair".  Don't these have greater impact?

     

    What about medical adanvancement?  Aren't contact lenses and cortisone shots factors in player performance, and advantes Babe Ruth did not have?  Where does the line get drawn?

     

    While we are at it, doesn't not having actual playing field dimensions affect records?  (The MLB rulebook does have ballpar dimensions.  No one obeys them.)

     

    So baseball changes the season length to 162 games, and Roger Maris breaks the single -season home run record.  But it does not count because the rule was changed, and he gets an "*".  Bob Gibson throw a 1.12ERA and the next season, they lower the mound.  No asterisk for Gibson?  Oh thats right - not a home run record.

     

    And why does MLB ignore everything before 1900?  Or, really, why do they ignore some things but not others.  For example, Hugh Duffy hit .440 in 1894.  Is this the record?  Does Matt Kilroy get credit for his  513 strikeouts in 1886 as a record?  Kilroy's season reamins anonymous, somehow less than Nolan Ryan and his mere 383 strikeouts.  Sometimes Duffy actually gets acknowledged over Nap Lajpoie's .426, which strikes me as odd because .440 is not "sometimes" better than .426.

     

    Now Cy Young, those 511 wins have been a historic number for a long, long time.  This is odd because 267 of his wins came before 1900.  So why has Young always gotten credit for his pre-1900 numbers, yet Duffy has not?  Duffy FACED Young in 1894. and even homered off him on June 1 of that year.  Yet somehow the baseball record book always told me that Young got credit for pitching to Duffy, but Duffy did not get credit for hitting off Young.  I hope Duffy did not trash talk Young after that homer.

     

    Duffy "Beat you that time!  No You Award for you."

    Young "The joke's on you.  No one will count it, not back here in 1894.   But if you wait for 2 years and hit in 44 straight games, that will count!!"

     

    Ask someone whose record Babe Ruth broke for the single-season HR title.  Chances are, the answer will be Buck Freeman, who hit 25 in 1899.  This makes for an odd record holder, since Ned Williamson hit 27 in 1884.  Why no credit for Williamson?  (I have heard his home/road splits are the reason - 25 at home, 2 on the road.  Too bad.  27 > 25, regardless of the ballpark.)

     

    Frankly, I do not see the big deal with how if affects the game itself.  I used to comapre steroid users to Gaylord Perry, but casual fans constantly told me that was different.  Apprenently arrogantly defying the rules of the game to the point of titling an autobiography "The Spitter And Me" is acceptable behavior.  But PEDs are not?

     

    Steoids and PEDs do need to go, but not for the records.  They need to go because, with new ones being developed all the time, no one knows the long term effects on the body.  And having a generation grow up thinking that PEDs are the only chance at living a dream is no position the sport should be in, and potentially risky behavior for teenagers and young adults.  There is already a genreation of minor league players who not only believe that, but view PEDs as their last chance.

     

    If MLB wants to rid steroids, etc. from the league, it would be easy.  Hit the players at the contract level.  Any players testing positive plays out his contract at league minimum salary.   No immediate free agency, and all opt out clauses are voided.  So if you are 2 years into a 5 years $100mill contract, those last 3 will get you $1.3mill, or about a $58.7mill paycut.

     

    I do think the salary AAV should count against the Luxury Tax, so as the keep testing from becoming an economic strategy.  And  any forfeited money is donated to a charity to help retired ballplayers who found out the hard way that using HGH for over 10 years causes your eyeballs to fall out at 50.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Very good; especially your original anecdotes about Duffy, Young, Kilroy & others, and the line "This is 1894". That reminds me of the line in Austin Powers: "100 billion dollars? This is 1969!"

     

    I heard today that a clause to void the contract altogether may be the way to go. But players could still "game" that, trying for the dream while on the stuff, then cleaning up after the contract. Some white collar criminals have gone that route. Regardless, couldn't the MLBPA gripe about such clauses?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    The purists / historians started the witchhunt.  I personally never gave a crap that longstanding records were broken; however, purists did.  These purists frustrate me.

    The pursist who are calling for the game to be cleaned up are not the problem. They're simply using the wrong platform to pose thier argument...Records of days gone bye are irrelevent...In the end it's about an even playing field...Those that choose to stay clean should not have to weigh the merits of thier decision due to the acceptance of the masses to look the other way or trivialize the edge gained by the use of PEDS. The line between making the jump to the big leagues and or securing a spot on a teams roster should not come down the choice of use or lose.

    My son is a freshman in HS and a pretty good ballplayer. Who's goal is to one day play in the big leagues. While the reality is that he likely wont...it shouldn't becasue he refused to use and was passed on the dpeth chart by a kid that did. Instead on the merits of his god given ability to hit a round ball, with a round bat, squarely...

    Perhaps I'm being naive, but the truth is that I could care less about the hallowed/hollow records of the legends that were Ruth and Aaron. Today in the now, with what we've come to learn about sport. Do we truly want sport to digress to the point where the teams with best chemist win? As a parent of an athlete do we truly want to add "hire a chemist" to the checklist along with exercise, proper dieting, private instruction, solid coaching and drive to compete in preparing our sons and daughers to compete in sport?

    Trivilze this all you want but the fact of the matter is that in all youth sports. As athletes begin thier accents to the top of thier respective sports. The question of use is not if, but when...Not sure about you, but I can barely afford to pay for the equipment, private lessons and teams fees, traverl expenses etc. Let alone adding the fees for a "nutritionist" to the growing cost of youth sport.

    It is from this prisim that this argument needs to be posed, Babe Ruth hit 714 HR certainly the stuff of legend...protecting the sanctity of that number should not be the main thrust in arrving at the basis for cleaning up the game...

    Manny Alexander a fringe utility inflieder back in the late 90's was busted for having cyringes and anabolic steriod is his car, found during a routine traffic stop. His use of steriods had nothing to do with chasing Aaron. It had to do with keeping up with the Joneses...

    Jesus Montero is latest top prospect that was linked to steriods...hmmmm

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    The purists / historians started the witchhunt.  I personally never gave a crap that longstanding records were broken; however, purists did.  These purists frustrate me.

    The pursist who are calling for the game to be cleaned up are not the problem. They're simply using the wrong platform to pose thier argument...Records of days gone bye are irrelevent...In the end it's about an even playing field...Those that choose to stay clean should not have to weigh the merits of thier decision due to the acceptance of the masses to look the other way or trivialize the edge gained by the use of PEDS. The line between making the jump to the big leagues and or securing a spot on a teams roster should not come down the choice of use or lose.

    My son is a freshman in HS and a pretty good ballplayer. Who's goal is to one day play in the big leagues. While the reality is that he likely wont...it shouldn't becasue he refused to use and was passed on the dpeth chart by a kid that did. Instead on the merits of his god given ability to hit a round ball, with a round bat, squarely...

    Perhaps I'm being naive, but the truth is that I could care less about the hallowed/hollow records of the legends that were Ruth and Aaron. Today in the now, with what we've come to learn about sport. Do we truly want sport to digress to the point where the teams with best chemist win? As a parent of an athlete do we truly want to add "hire a chemist" to the checklist along with exercise, proper dieting, private instruction, solid coaching and drive to compete in preparing our sons and daughers to compete in sport?

    Trivilze this all you want but the fact of the matter is that in all youth sports. As athletes begin thier accents to the top of thier respective sports. The question of use is not if, but when...Not sure about you, but I can barely afford to pay for the equipment, private lessons and teams fees, traverl expenses etc. Let alone adding the fees for a "nutritionist" to the growing cost of youth sport.

    It is from this prisim that this argument needs to be posed, Babe Ruth hit 714 HR certainly the stuff of legend...protecting the sanctity of that number should not be the main thrust in arrving at the basis for cleaning up the game...

    Manny Alexander a fringe utility inflieder back in the late 90's was busted for having cyringes and anabolic steriod is his car, found during a routine traffic stop. His use of steriods had nothing to do with chasing Aaron. It had to do with keeping up with the Joneses...

    Jesus Montero is latest top prospect that was linked to steriods...hmmmm

     

     




    Excellent point.


    Why should a player that wants to reach the bigs the  clean way and not risk the long-term health concerns, be handicapped by a system that just shrugs and says "everybody does it".

    Everybody doesn't do it.

    Punishments like a year ban for the first positive test and a lifetime ban for the second, will go a long way to making it a more level playing field.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Another rule change they should consider...for a player seems to be in the early stages of one of those infamous 'breakout seasons', you just earned yourself some 'extra testing', buddy. :-)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to garyhow's comment:

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?




    I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Another rule change they should consider...for a player seems to be in the early stages of one of those infamous 'breakout seasons', you just earned yourself some 'extra testing', buddy. :-)



    I understand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but Edwin Encarnacion hit 42 homers and drove in 110 RBIs for Toronto in 2012.  Let's see how he does for the new-look Blue Jays in 2013.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Another rule change they should consider...for a player seems to be in the early stages of one of those infamous 'breakout seasons', you just earned yourself some 'extra testing', buddy. :-)

     



    I understand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but Edwin Encarnacion hit 42 homers and drove in 110 RBIs for Toronto in 2012.  Let's see how he does for the new-look Blue Jays in 2013.  

     



    I kind of thought the same thing about Josh Reddick's power surge in Oakland last year.He seemed to hit an awful lot of HR's in a hurry,especially in what's known as a "Pitcher's Park".

    He hit 10 HR's with Boston in 375 plate appearances. That's 1 HR per 37.5 ABs

    With Oakland it was 32 in 611 plate appearances.That's roughly 1 HR per 19 ABs

    I understand that he was getting more consistancy by playing every day in Oakland,but it just seems pretty coincidental that his HRs per bat almost doubled.I'm not accusing him of using,but to me it's kind of a red flag.Maybe it's just a natural progression for him. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    I realize PEDS are a real prolem in MLB but too many of you are jumping on the bandwagon ready to join the "witch hunt" ready to investigate anyone who might have a break out season. Sounds like the Salem Witch Trials all over again. 

    Hetch

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Another rule change they should consider...for a player seems to be in the early stages of one of those infamous 'breakout seasons', you just earned yourself some 'extra testing', buddy. :-)

     



    I understand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but Edwin Encarnacion hit 42 homers and drove in 110 RBIs for Toronto in 2012.  Let's see how he does for the new-look Blue Jays in 2013.  

     

     



    I kind of thought the same thing about Josh Reddick's power surge in Oakland last year.He seemed to hit an awful lot of HR's in a hurry,especially in what's known as a "Pitcher's Park".

     

    He hit 10 HR's with Boston in 375 plate appearances. That's 1 HR per 37.5 ABs

    With Oakland it was 32 in 611 plate appearances.That's roughly 1 HR per 19 ABs

    I understand that he was getting more consistancy by playing every day in Oakland,but it just seems pretty coincidental that his HRs per bat almost doubled.I'm not accusing him of using,but to me it's kind of a red flag.Maybe it's just a natural progression for him. 



    When Reddick was smashing homers for Oakland, I kept thinking, "Damn the Red Sox traded this young stud for Bailey and Sweeney."   Damn you Billy Beane.   LOL

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    This is not a "witch hunt". A "witch hunt" is based on false pretenses and/or little precedent. If many are not being given the benefit of the doubt, I think we know why.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    This is not a "witch hunt". A "witch hunt" is based on false pretenses and/or little precedent. If many are not being given the benefit of the doubt, I think we know why.



    I agree with you nhsteven even though you are a fan of "The Evil Empire".    ;)

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    This is not a "witch hunt". A "witch hunt" is based on false pretenses and/or little precedent. If many are not being given the benefit of the doubt, I think we know why.




    Other than the fact the users are cheating the game and fans, the worst aspect of it is, they're making every player suspect, guilty or not, cheating them, as well.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to garyhow's comment:

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?



    Everyone did it. Our beloved Red Sox would not have won a World Series without PEDs. Manny and Papi, and you can go on with unproven names.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     



    Everyone did it. Our beloved Red Sox would not have won a World Series without PEDs. Manny and Papi, and you can go on with unproven names.

     



    I appreciate the stand up  post ADG

    the timing of garys question is ironic

    considering schillings latest comment
    s

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     



    Everyone did it. Our beloved Red Sox would not have won a World Series without PEDs. Manny and Papi, and you can go on with unproven names.

     




    It still doesn't make it right to condone it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     




    I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

     




    Yes, LOL, Cashman was behind that clinic. And based on the Schilling interview, maybe you had the wrong team.

    JK; the cheating is/was rampant, period, and was not for the most part a team thing; and it shows how fandom-based ignorant some posters can be.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     




    I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

     

     




     

    Yes, LOL, Cashman was behind that clinic. And based on the Schilling interview, maybe you had the wrong team.

    JK; the cheating is/was rampant, period, and was not for the most part a team thing; and it shows how fandom-based ignorant some posters can be.




    Yup. I'm sure every team has cheaters.

    But, it does seem that the Yankees have more than their share.

    Either that, or they're simply not at bright as their counterparts and get caught more often.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     




    I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

     

     




     

    Yes, LOL, Cashman was behind that clinic. And based on the Schilling interview, maybe you had the wrong team.

    JK; the cheating is/was rampant, period, and was not for the most part a team thing; and it shows how fandom-based ignorant some posters can be.

     




    Yup. I'm sure every team has cheaters.

     

    But, it does seem that the Yankees have more than their share.

    Either that, or they're simply not at bright as their counterparts and get caught more often.

     




     

    Have to admit it was pretty stupid for Cervelli to be shopping for rehab aids after an injury at PEDS R US if that is all he did.

    Eventually when these clinics around the country are outed all the names will surface.

    Could be years before we know.

    Or this  recent scandal could be a lesson to the dealers to clean up their act when it comes to retaining records that could come back to haunt.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    I can deal with schadenfreude but not the hypocrisy on this issue.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    I can deal with schadenfreude but not the hypocrisy on this issue.



    Yes, it seems to be a running complain amomg Yankee fans here.


    It's not going to change. I'm sure you'll see the same on other team sites.

    Fans are fans.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to garyhow's comment:

     

    Ryan Braun now claiming [or his excuse] is his name is on list because he sought out advice for his defense from his previous almost suspension. But records said he owed almost $30,000. Advice is getting awful expensive these days? Anyone else find it ironic how many Yankee names keep popping up on these lists, Mitchell Report was full of Yankees past and present. Now this latest list includes Arod[again] / Cervelli / Melky / Montero. Call me a Yankee hater, but could team be some how behind this. Why not point guys in a direction that might improve their players production [team wins] players perform better leads to better contracts [player wins], would like to hear what anyone else thinks? or am I just a Red Sox fan? I know RS have had there share as well, but Yanks names more abundant than anyone else, why?

     




    I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

     

     




     

    Yes, LOL, Cashman was behind that clinic. And based on the Schilling interview, maybe you had the wrong team.

    JK; the cheating is/was rampant, period, and was not for the most part a team thing; and it shows how fandom-based ignorant some posters can be.

     




    Yup. I'm sure every team has cheaters.

     

    But, it does seem that the Yankees have more than their share.

    Either that, or they're simply not at bright as their counterparts and get caught more often.



    And, possibly. more are interested in bringing them down; I'll cry for them

     

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