Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami "clinic"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    I actually think this is good news.  Not that guys are still using, but that investigators are gathering a lot more info on how these operations work and how the stuff moves.  The war on PED's in baseball is winnable. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    They keep coming up with new drugs, new masking agents, and what not. 

    It's not an easy battle.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to Leftymcrighty's comment:

     

    Those who worship the NFL, and NBA, are watching unchecked PED usage.

    Look at these guys, who all look like cartoon characters. Look at Lebron James and Dwight Howard.

    Those sports seem to have minimal enforcements against PEDs. Why? Because they know everyone in their leagues are using them.

    Why does baseball have to be Simon pure? Does the NFL really care about Deer Antler spray?No, because they don't want to rock the cash cow. Same with the NBA.

    Most baseball fans don't care, either. It was more fun to watch baseball in the steroid era than this pitching dominated era we now have.

     

     



    The purists / historians started the witchhunt.  I personally never gave a crap that longstanding records were broken; however, purists did.  These purists frustrate me.  They are the reason why it took way too long to incorporate instant replay.  Bring on instant replay, bring on quest tech (or whatever its called).

     

    "Blah, blah, blah, human element"

    Shut up w/ that crap!  Getting the call right is more important.  

    The game doesnt need to be preserved, it needs to be modernized.  All these owners are scared white men afraid of change.  They proved it when they colluded against Mark Cuban.  He would be great for the sport.

    These same DBs are the ones moaning about long-standing records being broken.  Guess what?  You shouldnt be comparing stats across eras anyways.  Its a foolish and overly simplistic comparison to begin with!!

    But thats the reason why PED use flys under the record in other sports.  Because baseball purists started a witch hunt because they didnt want to see records broken.  Give me a break.

     



    Allow me to rebutt, as a semi-purist.  I agree that the sanctity of records is no basis for a witch hunt. And that a witch hunt is ridiculous since the league and fans everywhere basically provided the needles. However, as a semi-purist, I found the game significantly less beautiful in the 'roid era.  The recent return to pitching dominance has made the game whole again.  So, THIS should be the reason for The Clampdown.  Of course, as we are seeing, there is no way to stay ahead of the PED curve, so it is still going to happen.  I have no answer for this.  maybe it is better to just let the juice flow and the homeruns sail.  But, I much prefer the game when you have to be a real hitter to put 30 out in a year and where pitchers can attack the strike zone without fear of every inside fastball being cleaned out with a 500 foot homerun by every pre-roid-punch-and-judy hitter.

     

     

    I found the game significantly less beautiful in the 'roid era.



    I hear you spaceman

    but seein how this is suppose 2 B entertainment

    maybe they could of taken a less damaging route

     move the fences back or go back to more of a 'dead ball'

     



    as usual, I was, enjoying drewski's post

    until I saw the mark cuban love

    no thanks my friend

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Breaking news:  Josh Beckett reportedly sold antler shavings from deer he hunted on his ranch to several Dodger teammates including Matt Kemp.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    But, let's make sure Pete Rose stays out of the HOF!



    thank you

    I couldn't agree more


    can U believe others just don't get the difference

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They keep coming up with new drugs, new masking agents, and what not. 

    It's not an easy battle.



    Absolutely.  But the numbers of people involved in this stuff is not overwhelmingly big.  There are 1200 or so ballplayers in MLB.  The players who use all need suppliers.  There can't be that many PED supply operations out there.  And they're starting to get weeded out.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    They keep coming up with new drugs, new masking agents, and what not. 

    It's not an easy battle.




    Agree. I believe about 80% of MLB Players were taking about 15 yrs ago, now, I still think it's about 40%. And, obviously, Ryan Braun doesn't care, and who can blame him? The HOF? My guess is he thinks "Big Deal". I think I'm jealous.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftymcrighty. Show Leftymcrighty's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Wrong! It's like marijuana, or pills.

    Millions use and abuse, and there's no shortage of supply or suppliers. I have used HGH myself, a few years ago for a spinal disc condition. It wasn't though a regular MD, but it sure was easy to find.

    Anyone who thinks only a few use PEDs, are fooling themselves. It's a more level playing field than you might think, and stars would be stars, with or without PEDs, only to a lesser extent.

    PEDs don't make bums into superstars. There has to be a baseline of talent to begin with,like Arod. He had all the tools for stardom. His juicing took it up a notch.  He'd have been a star, just as Barry Bonds was, before he started using PEDs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    not sure if ''numbers of people'' is the key here nut

    when there is so much money in play

    plus the other sports have a market

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Anybody who likied the 'roid era can always watch WWF, Tiger, or video games.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    Anybody who likied the 'roid era can always watch WWF, Tiger, or video games.



    WACHA GONNA DO WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU?!?   LOL

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Leftymcrighty's comment:

    Wrong! It's like marijuana, or pills.

    Millions use and abuse, and there's no shortage of supply or suppliers. I have used HGH myself, a few years ago for a spinal disc condition. It wasn't though a regular MD, but it sure was easy to find.

    Anyone who thinks only a few use PEDs, are fooling themselves. It's a more level playing field than you might think, and stars would be stars, with or without PEDs, only to a lesser extent.

    PEDs don't make bums into superstars. There has to be a baseline of talent to begin with,like Arod. He had all the tools for stardom. His juicing took it up a notch.  He'd have been a star, just as Barry Bonds was, before he started using PEDs.




    This is a good point, and it's important to remember that the guys hitting 40 home runs are just the tip of the iceberg. In addition to the stars who got all the attention, the Mitchell Report list had a lot of nobodies on it, if I recall correctly. Same with the more recent reports that have come out (with all due respect to sluggers like Francisco Cervelli and Danny Valencia). Similarly, you look at the players who have been suspended for positive PED tests, and there's a few standouts there but mostly guys who had unremarkable careers. That kind of blows my mind, because there's simply no way of knowing just how many guys were or still are using.

    Just makes it that much sadder, in my opinion, that guys like Bonds or A-Rod -- who, as you say, had all the talent and would have been stars anyway -- wrecked their legacies and will now be remembered as juicers instead.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Leftymcrighty's comment:

    Wrong! It's like marijuana, or pills.

    Millions use and abuse, and there's no shortage of supply or suppliers. I have used HGH myself, a few years ago for a spinal disc condition. It wasn't though a regular MD, but it sure was easy to find.

    Anyone who thinks only a few use PEDs, are fooling themselves. It's a more level playing field than you might think, and stars would be stars, with or without PEDs, only to a lesser extent.

    PEDs don't make bums into superstars. There has to be a baseline of talent to begin with,like Arod. He had all the tools for stardom. His juicing took it up a notch.  He'd have been a star, just as Barry Bonds was, before he started using PEDs.



    At this top level of PED-enahncement you speak of, turning the superstar into mega-super-monster-star, I sort of kind of maybe care a tiny little bit.  But where it gets me is when we are not talking about stars.  When we are talking about the guy with AA cieling who gets to the show with juice over other guys working their butts off and mortgaging their future on a baseball dream.  A. That unfairness hits me, b. that is where the PEd culture really saturates.  when it is the people scrapping to get to the bigs.  Because then it is less a case of, gee i'm awesome but i want to set records, and more of i need to do this stuff to keep up with the pack and keep my dream alive.  Then the pressure is as much external as internal.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    not sure if ''numbers of people'' is the key here nut

    when there is so much money in play

    plus the other sports have a market



    I agree there's a lot of money in play as an incentive to use.  But if they keep exposing cheats, if they increase the penalties, increase the testing, and increase the surveillance, at a certain point the disincentives might be strong enough to bring the whole thing down.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    not sure if ''numbers of people'' is the key here nut

    when there is so much money in play

    plus the other sports have a market

     



    I agree there's a lot of money in play as an incentive to use.  But if they keep exposing cheats, if they increase the penalties, increase the testing, and increase the surveillance, at a certain point the disincentives might be strong enough to bring the whole thing down.  

     



    Exactly,the rewards far outweigh the risks and punishment

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    not sure if ''numbers of people'' is the key here nut

    when there is so much money in play

    plus the other sports have a market

     



    I agree there's a lot of money in play as an incentive to use.  But if they keep exposing cheats, if they increase the penalties, increase the testing, and increase the surveillance, at a certain point the disincentives might be strong enough to bring the whole thing down.  

     

     



    Exactly,the rewards far outweigh the risks and punishment

     



    Sort of like the crooked Wall Street bankers with their toxic financial instruments; I wouldn't hold my breath

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to Leftymcrighty's comment:

     

    Those who worship the NFL, and NBA, are watching unchecked PED usage.

    Look at these guys, who all look like cartoon characters. Look at Lebron James and Dwight Howard.

    Those sports seem to have minimal enforcements against PEDs. Why? Because they know everyone in their leagues are using them.

    Why does baseball have to be Simon pure? Does the NFL really care about Deer Antler spray?No, because they don't want to rock the cash cow. Same with the NBA.

    Most baseball fans don't care, either. It was more fun to watch baseball in the steroid era than this pitching dominated era we now have.

     

     



    The purists / historians started the witchhunt.  I personally never gave a crap that longstanding records were broken; however, purists did.  These purists frustrate me.  They are the reason why it took way too long to incorporate instant replay.  Bring on instant replay, bring on quest tech (or whatever its called).

     

    "Blah, blah, blah, human element"

    Shut up w/ that crap!  Getting the call right is more important.  

    The game doesnt need to be preserved, it needs to be modernized.  All these owners are scared white men afraid of change.  They proved it when they colluded against Mark Cuban.  He would be great for the sport.

    These same DBs are the ones moaning about long-standing records being broken.  Guess what?  You shouldnt be comparing stats across eras anyways.  Its a foolish and overly simplistic comparison to begin with!!

    But thats the reason why PED use flys under the record in other sports.  Because baseball purists started a witch hunt because they didnt want to see records broken.  Give me a break.

     



    Allow me to rebutt, as a semi-purist.  I agree that the sanctity of records is no basis for a witch hunt. And that a witch hunt is ridiculous since the league and fans everywhere basically provided the needles. However, as a semi-purist, I found the game significantly less beautiful in the 'roid era.  The recent return to pitching dominance has made the game whole again.  So, THIS should be the reason for The Clampdown.  Of course, as we are seeing, there is no way to stay ahead of the PED curve, so it is still going to happen.  I have no answer for this.  maybe it is better to just let the juice flow and the homeruns sail.  But, I much prefer the game when you have to be a real hitter to put 30 out in a year and where pitchers can attack the strike zone without fear of every inside fastball being cleaned out with a 500 foot homerun by every pre-roid-punch-and-judy hitter.

     




    My rant was more about people standing in the way of modernization.  I have mixed feelings about a blind eye to PED use.  I feel for the guy who has a ton of natural talent and is faced with the decision to either use or fall behind.

    My rant was more of a reflection of my belief: Either change with the times, or fall behind.

    As a 28 year old living in corporate America, I have seen many smart/highly paid men get walked out of positions they once excelled in.  Why?  Because they just wouldnt embrace new technologies/theories.

    My father once said to me: "Always try to go with something before you go around it.  Always try to go around something before you go through it. "

    I feel that its semi-relevant.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to Leftymcrighty's comment:

    Wrong! It's like marijuana, or pills.

    Millions use and abuse, and there's no shortage of supply or suppliers. I have used HGH myself, a few years ago for a spinal disc condition. It wasn't though a regular MD, but it sure was easy to find.

    Anyone who thinks only a few use PEDs, are fooling themselves. It's a more level playing field than you might think, and stars would be stars, with or without PEDs, only to a lesser extent.

    PEDs don't make bums into superstars. There has to be a baseline of talent to begin with,like Arod. He had all the tools for stardom. His juicing took it up a notch.  He'd have been a star, just as Barry Bonds was, before he started using PEDs.



    Rod, be careful bro.  I hear a lot of crap about how HGH is actually good for you.  It isnt.  Its for children who arent going to hit puberty because they dont have enough hormones in their body. 

    There is a reason why a licensed MD wouldnt prescribe it for a spinal disc contusion.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    not sure if ''numbers of people'' is the key here nut

    when there is so much money in play

    plus the other sports have a market

     



    I agree there's a lot of money in play as an incentive to use.  But if they keep exposing cheats, if they increase the penalties, increase the testing, and increase the surveillance, at a certain point the disincentives might be strong enough to bring the whole thing down.  

     

     



    Exactly,the rewards far outweigh the risks and punishment

     



    I agree up to a point.  But guys like Bonds and Clemens and A-Rod are smeared forever.  I wonder if they had a chance to do it over again if they would want to go down this road of shame again.  Was it worth it?  Not like these guys needed more money.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    I actually think this is good news.  Not that guys are still using, but that investigators are gathering a lot more info on how these operations work and how the stuff moves.  The war on PED's in baseball is winnable. 

    Kinda like how we are winning the war on illegal drugs in America?

     



    Well, that's sort of my point.  The war on illegal drugs in America is futile because you're got millions of drug users.  The war on baseball PED's is trying to police little more than a thousand people.

     

     

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftymcrighty. Show Leftymcrighty's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun on the list of names from the Miami

    Dweski, when you have trouble walking, or functioning in ways you've always taken for granted, you reach for hope.

    I have managed to avoid surgery, and have 95% of the motion I always had. Only used the stuff for a short while.

    I think HGH is more to keep guys on the field and heal faster when they have surgery or injuries.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share