Ryan Braun

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Ryan Braun

    Ok, so we all know Braun tested positive in 2011 and also is linked to the Miami health clinic "Biogenesis". Well here is my question, if Braun is found to be guilty does that mean he will get a 100 game suspension for a second offense?

    Brauns name showed up on clinic documents dated to April, 2012. His first positive test was in october 2011... So that looks like 2 different offenses to me which is why i am wondering if he will be penalized like a second time offender..


    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8952705&categoryid=2378529

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to mef429's comment:

    Ok, so we all know Braun tested positive in 2011 and also is linked to the Miami health clinic "Biogenesis". Well here is my question, if Braun is found to be guilty does that mean he will get a 100 game suspension for a second offense?

    Brauns name showed up on clinic documents dated to April, 2012. His first positive test was in october 2011... So that looks like 2 different offenses to me which is why i am wondering if he will be penalized like a second time offender..


    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8952705&categoryid=2378529



       What you say makes some sense, but don't believe it will happen, I too think he is dirty, and is caught this time it will be a 50 game suspension.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to attic-dan's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    Ok, so we all know Braun tested positive in 2011 and also is linked to the Miami health clinic "Biogenesis". Well here is my question, if Braun is found to be guilty does that mean he will get a 100 game suspension for a second offense?

    Brauns name showed up on clinic documents dated to April, 2012. His first positive test was in october 2011... So that looks like 2 different offenses to me which is why i am wondering if he will be penalized like a second time offender..


    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8952705&categoryid=2378529

     



       What you say makes some sense, but don't believe it will happen, I too think he is dirty, and is caught this time it will be a 50 game suspension.

     




    Unless he gets off on a technicality llike last year.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    There wasnt anything but his name on those paper. Unlike all the others that had the name of the PED's they were taken next to their names. Braun had nothing next to his, so there was no solid evidence.

    With that said, I truly believe he was/is on something.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    The two events with Braun are likely very closely linked.  The document trail from Biogenesis that elads to him is probably related to the substances he purchased and tested positive for.  

     

    I would think that this should be his first suspension, given that he was let off on a breach of protocol last time.    I doubt the reasons Braun was let off last time will consitute a "double jeopardy" in this case, either.

     

    I would also assume Melky Cabrera has already served his time and stands to face no punishment...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    Justice doesn't work that way. Unless you are O.J.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to slomag's comment:

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     




    MLB has disciplined players with no failed test.  Jason Grimsley, for example..

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

     

    Going to the anti-aging clinic in Miami to seek advice is like a kid telling his/her teacher that his/her dog ate his/her homework.   LOL

    Each player's lame and silly excuse makes me laugh.  LOL

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     

     




    MLB has disciplined players with no failed test.  Jason Grimsley, for example..

     



    Grimsley was retired at the time - it probably would not have stood up to an appeal.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     

     




    MLB has disciplined players with no failed test.  Jason Grimsley, for example..

     

     



    Grimsley was retired at the time - it probably would not have stood up to an appeal.

     




    No, he was injured at the time, but was a member of the Diamondbacks.   He got busted and then was released the next day and in the face of punishment, decided to retire....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

     

    Hmmmm, where should I go for advice?  My team doctor or a fake doctor at the clinic in Miami.  Yeah, I'll go to the latter.  LOL

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     

     




    MLB has disciplined players with no failed test.  Jason Grimsley, for example..

     

     



    Grimsley was retired at the time - it probably would not have stood up to an appeal.

     

     




    No, he was injured at the time, but was a member of the Diamondbacks.   He got busted and then was released the next day and in the face of punishment, decided to retire....

     




    OK.  But Grimsley signed affidavits attesting to the fact that he had violated the testing policy.  He wasn't just a name on somebody's notes.  

    Grimsley was a distributor - MLB was trying to send a message, but if he had not retired, I bet the players union could have beaten the suspension.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    The suspensions are punishments for failed drug tests - not showing up on somebody's list.  If MLB starts down that road, they are going to have to establish the validity of every outside claim.  I don't think Braun receives any suspension at all.

     

     




    MLB has disciplined players with no failed test.  Jason Grimsley, for example..

     

     



    Grimsley was retired at the time - it probably would not have stood up to an appeal.

     

     




    No, he was injured at the time, but was a member of the Diamondbacks.   He got busted and then was released the next day and in the face of punishment, decided to retire....

     

     




     

    OK.  But Grimsley signed affidavits attesting to the fact that he had violated the testing policy.  He wasn't just a name on somebody's notes.  

    Grimsley was a distributor - MLB was trying to send a message, but if he had not retired, I bet the players union could have beaten the suspension.

     




    true.

     

    It will be interesting to see if the CBA specifically requires a drug test for a suspension.

     

    If I had to bet, I would say none of these guys sit a day (aside from Melky, who already did some sitting).  I find it hard to believe all those BALCO investigations did not turn up a name or two, and yet we never saw anyone suspended following one.   Bonds was linked to BALCO for years and yet never sat a single game of suspension....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    He won't be convicted. The urine sample delivery boy will somehow be blamed for a false test.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Braun had nothing next to his, so there was no solid evidence.

    The evidence is overwhelming that Braun is one of baseball's Lance Armstrongs. He should be banned from MLB, for life. He won't be, because of the MLBPA, which is a literal racketeer.




    He also won't be banned because Selig still has ties to the Brewers and as we all know Braun plays for the Brewers.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Braun had nothing next to his, so there was no solid evidence.

    The evidence is overwhelming that Braun is one of baseball's Lance Armstrongs. He should be banned from MLB, for life. He won't be, because of the MLBPA, which is a literal racketeer.



    The flaws in the current disipline and tesing system goes far deeper than the MLBPA. All parties have a vested interest in ensuring that the marque names are on the field. The owners are beholden to the networks who are beholden to their sponsors who ultimately are the ones paying the freight. All are beholden to we the fans who line up to buy the product. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:

    (1) The discipline meted out by MLB is for using banned substances.  Failing a blood or urine test is just one way MLB can "prove" a violation of the policy.  Other ways would be the testimony of witnesses, a confession, or circumstantial evidence such as reciepts or paraphanalia.  Obviously, a posative test is the easiest way to prove a violation. A player's name appearing on a list at a clinic that has some legitimate and some illegitimate activities is probably not enough to prove a violation.

     

    (2) Ryan Braun did not "get off on a technicality."  The chain of custody requirements are there for a reason: to ensure that the sample is reliable evidence.  Failure to follow the chain of custody means the sample could have been tainted and/or deteriorated.  The arbitrator found that MLB did not have enough reliable evidence to prove that Braun failed a drug test.

    MLB and the union agreed to the chain of custody guidelines. Presumably, they designed those guidelines based on objective evidence that failure to follow them could result in tainted or deteriorated samples.  The guidelines were not invented whole-cloth just to be a pain-in-the-neck; they were tailored to protect the integrity of the evidence. 

    In this case, the arbitrator felt that the failure to follow the chain of custody requirements was sufficient to undermine the reliability of the evidece.  Even when the official testified that he kept it safe and didn't let it get contaminated, the arbitrator found that it was unreliable.  This is not a case where MLB was not allowed to introduce the evidence; rather it is one where the factfinder, knowing all of the evidence, was not convinced that Braun was guilty because the evidence was flawed.

    This is not like a jury trial, where the jury doesn't get to hear that there were drugs in the car because the cops did an illegal search.  It is more like a jury trial where the eyewitness has a motive to lie about the defendant, and the jury acquitts because they don't believe the witness.  The evidence was not kept out, it was just shown to be unreliable.

    Since he was not "convicted," it would be unjust to escalate the penalty for what would be his first conviction to the level of the second conviction.  

    If you're charged with DUI and you successfully beat it in court because the breathalyzer test was bad, your next DUI charge is not a 2nd, but a first.  Likewise in this case.  Braun's next conviction for using will not be a second conviction, but a first conviction.  

     




    While most of what you said it true,  I do not like this comparison, as there was no reason for anyone had reason to tamper with Braun's anonymous sample.  MLB had a breach in protocol, and that was why Braun was allowed to play last year.  The DUI comparison is probably mroe apt. (Don't those machines have to read within a certain limited range on two tests or something?  Any cops out there?) 

    It is more than likely the synthetic HGH in his system was acquired from Biogensis anyway, so this is probably the same incident.   So there is noway this should be consdiered his "second violation" anyway.  Ditto or Melky...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

     

    Blue Jay's GM said that he is not concerned about a possible suspension for Cabrera.

    Speaking of Cabrera, did the Giants give him a World Series ring? 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

     

    We need Chris Hanson from Dateline NBC to handle this matter. 

    Chris Hanson: "Grab a seat over there." "What are you doing here?"

    Ryan Braun: "Ummm,......I'm here to see a friend."

    Chris Hanson: "Ryan, I have the transcript here so you better be open and honest with me."

    LOL

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    "Ryan Braun did not "get off on a technicality." The chain of custody requirements are there for a reason: to ensure that the sample is reliable evidence. Failure to follow the chain of custody means the sample could have been tainted and/or deteriorated. The arbitrator found that MLB did not have enough reliable evidence to prove that Braun failed a drug test."

    I was willing to give Braun the benefit of the doubt, which is something I'm inclined to do in most situations where I don't have any inside knowledge.  Now that Braun's name has shown up in connection with the Miami clinic, it seems that he is indeed guilty.

    That said, as angry as it makes me to see seemingly guilty people get off on charges because proper procedure was not followed (more so in criminal cases than in MLB PED cases), as you said, the requirements are there for a reason and they must be followed.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to mef429's comment:

    Ok, so we all know Braun tested positive in 2011 and also is linked to the Miami health clinic "Biogenesis". Well here is my question, if Braun is found to be guilty does that mean he will get a 100 game suspension for a second offense?

    Brauns name showed up on clinic documents dated to April, 2012. His first positive test was in october 2011... So that looks like 2 different offenses to me which is why i am wondering if he will be penalized like a second time offender..


    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8952705&categoryid=2378529



    When I look at all the guys accused/guilty or not of using PEDS I would still trade for Braun in a heartbeat if he was ever available.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Ryan Braun

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    "Ryan Braun did not "get off on a technicality." The chain of custody requirements are there for a reason: to ensure that the sample is reliable evidence. Failure to follow the chain of custody means the sample could have been tainted and/or deteriorated. The arbitrator found that MLB did not have enough reliable evidence to prove that Braun failed a drug test."

    I was willing to give Braun the benefit of the doubt, which is something I'm inclined to do in most situations where I don't have any inside knowledge.  Now that Braun's name has shown up in connection with the Miami clinic, it seems that he is indeed guilty.

    That said, as angry as it makes me to see seemingly guilty people get off on charges because proper procedure was not followed (more so in criminal cases than in MLB PED cases), as you said, the requirements are there for a reason and they must be followed.

     



    Braun and his lawyers took advantage of the law to side step his being suspended. They did not prove his innocence. They merely raised reasonable doubt about the integrity of the sample. It doesn't change the fact that he tested positive and his being connected with Biogenenics lab is proof positive that something's amiss. The shame in all it is that he's likely to walk away with little repurcussions and the cycle of deceit will continue. 

     
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