Ryan Hanigan

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Ryan Hanigan

    I hoped we would sign McCann or Ruiz to reasonable deals. Didn't work out. Now I hope its a trade for Ryan Hanigan.

    Coming into this season, Hanigan was the better offensive player between he and Salty in their careers believe it or not. Better OPS and wRC+. This included a 370 OB% and more BB's then K's.

    The question is why did he stink on offense this year. Temporary injuries and a low BABIP[.216]? Or age[32], permanent injuries and regression? Its a bit of a gamble, but one I am willing to take.

    Over the last 5 seasons, he has basically been the Reds starting catcher. In that time, the Reds have been a winning team and he has been a winning catcher. When he plays, they win a lot more then when other catchers catch. A lot more.

    The reason to trade for him is not offense, its defense. He is one of the top 5 pitch framers in baseball. He doesn't let pass balls happen[never more then 3 in a season]. And his throwing is the BEST in baseball. Here is his stats the last two seasons compared to Salty in throwing differential.....

    Salty

    80-18-62
    89-24-65

    Hanigan

    34-32-2
    18-15-3

    If those trends continued, it would be the offensive equivelant of telling both Ellsbury and Pedroia combined to never even bother trying to steal. Would that have an impact on offense? Thats his impact on defense throwing. Teams are afraid to even try to run on him.

    His CERA's are also strong.

    One thing I am starting to believe is that the Red Sox are extremely high on Swihart and Vazquez. And they might be looking for another veteran catcher other then Ross to help teach the young guys in spring training the finer art of game calling and pitch framing. And they might not think Salty is that teacher. Maybe?

    Contractually, he will cost only 2-3 million for 1 year. After this season, we can decide whether to keep him or Ross for one more season.

    I have become like Moon, only with me its catcher defense instead of SS defense.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    .

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    Send Kalish, whose official position is DL..

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I hoped we would sign McCann or Ruiz to reasonable deals. Didn't work out. Now I hope its a trade for Ryan Hanigan.

    Coming into this season, Hanigan was the better offensive player between he and Salty in their careers believe it or not. Better OPS and wRC+. This included a 370 OB% and more BB's then K's.

    The question is why did he stink on offense this year. Temporary injuries and a low BABIP[.216]? Or age[32], permanent injuries and regression? Its a bit of a gamble, but one I am willing to take.

    Over the last 5 seasons, he has basically been the Reds starting catcher. In that time, the Reds have been a winning team and he has been a winning catcher. When he plays, they win a lot more then when other catchers catch. A lot more.

    The reason to trade for him is not offense, its defense. He is one of the top 5 pitch framers in baseball. He doesn't let pass balls happen[never more then 3 in a season]. And his throwing is the BEST in baseball. Here is his stats the last two seasons compared to Salty in throwing differential.....

    Salty

    80-18-62
    89-24-65

    Hanigan

    34-32-2
    18-15-3

    If those trends continued, it would be the offensive equivelant of telling both Ellsbury and Pedroia combined to never even bother trying to steal. Would that have an impact on offense? Thats his impact on defense throwing. Teams are afraid to even try to run on him.

    His CERA's are also strong.

    One thing I am starting to believe is that the Red Sox are extremely high on Swihart and Vazquez. And they might be looking for another veteran catcher other then Ross to help teach the young guys in spring training the finer art of game calling and pitch framing. And they might not think Salty is that teacher. Maybe?

    Contractually, he will cost only 2-3 million for 1 year. After this season, we can decide whether to keep him or Ross for one more season.

    I have become like Moon, only with me its catcher defense instead of SS defense.



    Excellent post.

    I may be big on SS defense, but I value the catcher-staff dynamic highly as well.

    I'd love to get Hanigan for all the reasons you listed. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    Hanigan

    34-32-2
    18-15-3

    I just assumed you posted the wrong numbers.  So I checked to see what the right numbers were.  So now all I have to is, those are really interesting numbers.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    I doubt a top 20 prospect would be required to acquire Ryan Hanigan.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I doubt a top 20 prospect would be required to acquire Ryan Hanigan.



    Like maybe Hassan and Coyle?

    Maybe we clear up a 40 man roster spot for a future FA signing by offering Cincy any 2 from a list that may include 3-4 from here:

    Bailey

    Hassan

    Butler

    Castellanos

    Villareal

    A Wilson

    Holt

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Hanigan

    34-32-2
    18-15-3

    I just assumed you posted the wrong numbers.  So I checked to see what the right numbers were.  So now all I have to is, those are really interesting numbers.



    It would be interesting to see how those numbers hold up catching for a team notorious for not holding runners very well.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I doubt a top 20 prospect would be required to acquire Ryan Hanigan.

    Several teams could use Ryan Hanigan ... with the competition the Reds should be able to command a  better return than a low-level prospect.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I doubt a top 20 prospect would be required to acquire Ryan Hanigan.

    Several teams could use Ryan Hanigan ... with the competition the Reds should be able to command a  better return than a low-level prospect.




    I appreciate your opinion, but dont leave it open ended like this all the time.
    Ok, so what do you think it would take?

     

    The reds dont necessarily hold all the cards here. They already have their 2 starters going into 2014 with Mesoraco and newly signed Pena. So unless there are at least 2 or 3 teams that really realy really want him, I dont think you have to give up a guy like Betts or Swihart to get him.

    I dont think a top 20 prospect is necessary to get him. Maybe even a BP arm or something. Reds would want to get rid of his 2-3M salary, so Im sure they are not holding out for a top prospect, and no team will give up one for him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    I have never seen this Hanigan play, but if he is good enough to be the Sox starter how come he is not good enough to be the Reds backup catcher?  The Reds have signed Brayan Pena to fill their second catching spot, so the Reds have to think that Pena is better than Hanigan.  And, no one would have ever considered Pena for the first string catching job in Boston.

    He hit less than .200 last year and may already be the traditional second string catcher and a candidate to replace Ross after this season.  I just do not see how the Red Sox can even think of obtaining this guy and leave such a giant hole in the batting order-even for some improved defense-when they could be losing Ellsbury and maybe Napoli.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to charliedarling's comment:

    I have never seen this Hanigan play, but if he is good enough to be the Sox starter how come he is not good enough to be the Reds backup catcher?  The Reds have signed Brayan Pena to fill their second catching spot, so the Reds have to think that Pena is better than Hanigan.  And, no one would have ever considered Pena for the first string catching job in Boston.

    He hit less than .200 last year and may already be the traditional second string catcher and a candidate to replace Ross after this season.  I just do not see how the Red Sox can even think of obtaining this guy and leave such a giant hole in the batting order-even for some improved defense-when they could be losing Ellsbury and maybe Napoli.



    by Matt Klaassen - November 8, 2013

    Today, the Cincinnati Reds have agreed to sign Brayan Pena to a two year contract. Brayan Pena is a generic replacement level catcher, so you probably don’t care too much about him. You might care about Ryan Hanigan, however, since you’re reading FanGraphs. Because Hanigan is something of a sabermetric darling, and now he’s being cast aside in favor of a player who seems demonstrably worse.

    For the Reds, this probably has less to do with Hanigan and more to do with Devin Mesoraco, who looks to be the team’s regular starting catcher in 2014 after today’s news. Pena fits the prototypical backup role, and now the team can attempt to use Hanigan as trade bait. And, given his skills and the amount of teams looking for a catcher this winter, they should have no shortage of suitors.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    The reds dont necessarily hold all the cards here. They already have their 2 starters going into 2014 with Mesoraco and newly signed Pena. So unless there are at least 2 or 3 teams that really realy really want him, I dont think you have to give up a guy like Betts or Swihart to get him.

    I dont think a top 20 prospect is necessary to get him. Maybe even a BP arm or something. Reds would want to get rid of his 2-3M salary, so Im sure they are not holding out for a top prospect, and no team will give up one for him.

     

    The deadline to tender a contract to arb eligible players is Monday.  I don't know whether the Reds are in a roster crunch, but Hanigan's name has been tossed around as one who could be non-tendered, either to free up space on the 40 man roster or to save a little bit of money.

    Hanigan could then be signed as a free agent.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    BMav, good post.

    My first choice would still be to re-sign Salty for 3 years or less, but if he can't be re-signed, my second choice is Hanigan.

    I prefer defense over offense at the catching position also.  My top priority in a catcher is one who handles the staff well.  By all accounts, Hanigan rates well in that area.

    While CS% has never been a huge issue for me, I was recently reading about how the value of the stolen base is increasing because of the lower scoring environments in the post steroid era.  Hence, the value of a catcher's CS% is also increasing.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I doubt a top 20 prospect would be required to acquire Ryan Hanigan.

    Several teams could use Ryan Hanigan ... with the competition the Reds should be able to command a  better return than a low-level prospect.




    I agree.  The signings of Ruiz and McCann push his value up.  Ruiz just signed a 3-year deal for $27M+ at an age where decline will certainly set in.  Before 2013, Hanigan has a great WAR/PA.  He was at -0- last year, but 6.6 over the previous 3 years, and Steamer predicts him for a 2.2 this year.  And 6.6 he had produced was only over 850 PAs.  Ruiz had a 3-year WAR of 9.5 over 1,234 PAs.  You could argue that more GS's might decrease Hanigan's effectiveness, but the numbers per PA are identical.

    The only possible (and legit) argument you could have against Hanigan is whether or not his 2013 was for real.  I'd suggest his .216 BABIP v a career .283 suggests a big bounceback.  His HR/FB was below career, so that could come back, and his LD% was almost at career, so that suggests simple bad luck.

    I think enough teams will be interested that will warrant something other than bargain basement prices.

    As a matter of fact, I think so highly of him, that I would ante up slightly more if I could extend him for two years prior to the trade.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    BMav...Great Post! I'm glad others here are giving credit where it is due. Real quality post.

    Tom, the rest of that fangraphs article was interesting also ( as I'm sure you know! ). For those who may not have seen it the full post is here:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/switching-out-hanigan-for-pena/

    Near the end of the article it talks about his health a little. It is certainly possible that the Reds just were clearing space for Mesoraco but it could also be that they just saw major health issues of the kind that could be with him for a while. It's hard to believe the $2 mil salary was that much of a concern for them. They could have made him the back up. But chose not to. 

    Was it a way of developing a trade piece? Maybe they saw him as a starting level catcher and they already had another one. They traded a solid catching prospect a couple years ago in the Latos trade. They may have felt that they could also trade Hanigan for some value. If so they picked a pretty stupid time to do it. If he is really healthy they would be better off waiting. But they chose to sign a replacement guy already. It concerns me when I see steps taken which do not appear on the surface to be prudent decisionmaking.

    The guy's health is questionable. Would a world series champion want to go into the new year with a starting catcher who may not be able to produce well at all due to injury? Probably not. 

    What about a World Series champion which has a solid back up guy like Ross and an acceptable solution in Lavarnway and a back up if Hanigan can't produce. If he only costs $2 mil. And would Hanigan even have to produce much to be our starter? Probably not. His defense is still good.

    The guy was worth $12 mil two years ago and nothing last year according to fangraphs. This one is subject to a doctor's review. If the doctor says ok jump on it. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    I'm wondering if the Reds would have any interest in Brentz.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    It's awkward to compare the trade value of a catcher and a pitcher, but I'll give it a shot.

    With five years of MLB service apiece, Cincinnati catcher Ryan Hanigan and Boston lefthander Franklin Morales each remain under team control for one more season. MLB Trade Rumors* projects 2014 salaries of $2.3 million for Hanigan and $1.8 million for Morales.

    Hanigan has been valued at 8.3 WAR**, or $36.2 million, in his five years of MLB service, including 0.0 WAR in 2013. Morales has been valued at 1.9 WAR, or $8.6 million, in his five years, including 0.1 WAR, or $300,000, in 2013.

    Steamer*** projects a 2014 WAR of 2.2 for Hanigan in 97 games and a 2014 WAR of 0.2 for Morales in 35 relief appearances.

    Those numbers suggest that Hanigan has significantly more trade value than Morales.

    For a catcher comp, Jarrod Saltalamacchia has been valued at 6.9 WAR, or $33 million, in six years of MLB service, covering 595 games, including 3.6 WAR, or $17.8 million, in 2013.

    * http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/projected-arbitration-salaries-for-2014.html

    ** Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4952&position=C http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5088&position=P http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5557&position=C

    *** http://steamerprojections.com/blog/about/

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    It's not to compare WAR for relief pitcher.  In the same timeframe Hanigan was valued at 8.3 WAR, Mariano Rivera was valued at 8.7WAR, also including a lost campaign of 0.4WAR in 2013.

     

    Pretty sure Hanigan for Rivera deal would not happen even if Rivera did not retire...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    It's not to compare WAR for relief pitcher.  In the same timeframe Hanigan was valued at 8.3 WAR, Mariano Rivera was valued at 8.7WAR, also including a lost campaign of 0.4WAR in 2013.

     

    Pretty sure Hanigan for Rivera deal would not happen even if Rivera did not retire...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    It's not to compare WAR for relief pitcher.  In the same timeframe Hanigan was valued at 8.3 WAR, Mariano Rivera was valued at 8.7WAR, also including a lost campaign of 0.4WAR in 2013.

     

    Pretty sure Hanigan for Rivera deal would not happen even if Rivera did not retire...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    It's not to compare WAR for relief pitcher.  In the same timeframe Hanigan was valued at 8.3 WAR, Mariano Rivera was valued at 8.7WAR, also including a lost campaign of 0.4WAR in 2013.

     

    Pretty sure Hanigan for Rivera deal would not happen even if Rivera did not retire...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to BMav's comment:

    I hoped we would sign McCann or Ruiz to reasonable deals. Didn't work out. Now I hope its a trade for Ryan Hanigan.

    Coming into this season, Hanigan was the better offensive player between he and Salty in their careers believe it or not. Better OPS and wRC+. This included a 370 OB% and more BB's then K's.

    The question is why did he stink on offense this year. Temporary injuries and a low BABIP[.216]? Or age[32], permanent injuries and regression? Its a bit of a gamble, but one I am willing to take.

    Over the last 5 seasons, he has basically been the Reds starting catcher. In that time, the Reds have been a winning team and he has been a winning catcher. When he plays, they win a lot more then when other catchers catch. A lot more.

    The reason to trade for him is not offense, its defense. He is one of the top 5 pitch framers in baseball. He doesn't let pass balls happen[never more then 3 in a season]. And his throwing is the BEST in baseball. Here is his stats the last two seasons compared to Salty in throwing differential.....

    Salty

    80-18-62
    89-24-65

    Hanigan

    34-32-2
    18-15-3

    If those trends continued, it would be the offensive equivelant of telling both Ellsbury and Pedroia combined to never even bother trying to steal. Would that have an impact on offense? Thats his impact on defense throwing. Teams are afraid to even try to run on him.

    His CERA's are also strong.

    One thing I am starting to believe is that the Red Sox are extremely high on Swihart and Vazquez. And they might be looking for another veteran catcher other then Ross to help teach the young guys in spring training the finer art of game calling and pitch framing. And they might not think Salty is that teacher. Maybe?

    Contractually, he will cost only 2-3 million for 1 year. After this season, we can decide whether to keep him or Ross for one more season.

    I have become like Moon, only with me its catcher defense instead of SS defense.



    He handles the pitching well, but is inconsistent as a hitter, not even what Salt was. Actually Salt was pretty good at the plate this year. But I don t think fans in Boston would put up with it if he had another year like last year. He was hurt last year, but did not hit well even when he wasnt.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm wondering if the Reds would have any interest in Brentz.




    I wouldnt let that raw power go just yet. Not for a guy like Hanigan...No way.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ryan Hanigan

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I'm wondering if the Reds would have any interest in Brentz.




    I wouldnt let that raw power go just yet. Not for a guy like Hanigan...No way.



    I would in a heartbeat.

     
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