Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    If Beckett continues to dominate, the RS win the division and get to the WS, and Beckett gets his IP up there (right now, he only has 19 starts, but his IP is 50-60 less than Weaver, Verlander, and CC, who have 22/23 starts), he would establish himself as a more viable candidate IMO than Sabathia. WHIP is better, team does better, ERA is lower, both pitch in the AL East, whichever leads his team further is the better candidate, I think.
    Posted by thewags


    Whether the posters here like it or not, W-L has always been a big factor.
    20 Wins is still a hallowed accomplishment. 

    Case in point:

    '61 W. Ford 25-4 3.21 
    '80 S. Stone 25-7 3.23
    '83 L. Hoyt 24-10 3.66
    '93 J. McDowell 22-10 3.37
    '01 R. Clemens 20-3 3.51
    '05 B. Colon 21-8 3.48

    Keep in mind ERAs before '90 were in general lower.

    There's others:





     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : may....if....but....shoulda....woulda here's one for you...... If a frog had a parachute then he wouldn't slap his @zz on the ground every time he hopped. Not to mention winning the division has nothing to do with it. Did you see hernandez get it last year?
    Posted by TheBabe-----------------


    I can recall Law using this line.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Whether the posters here like it or not, W-L has always been a big factor. Case in point: '61 W. Ford 25-4 3.21  '80 S. Stone 25-7 3.23

    Posted by nhsteven

    2010 felix hernandez 13-12 2.27 ERA

     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : 2010 felix hernandez 13-12 2.27 ERA
    Posted by TheBabe-----------------


    And that was a fairly new precedent.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    CC is awesome.  I think he is certainly the front runner, running neck and neck with Verlander and Weaver, for CY at this juncture.  But, unlike last year, where there were no clear cut aces besides Kinf Felix (despite his W-L), this year is going to be decided by how CC/Weave/Verlander/Beckett pitch down the stretch in competitive races.  IF Cy Youngs were handed out on July 27, I'd vote for CC.  But we shall see.  He's got some meaningful starts in his future.  And, while the betting man will put his chips on CC coming through like the ace he is, I am hoping the Sox and others blow him up down the stretch and make him an afterthought in the Cy Young race.  
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    CC is awesome.  I think he is certainly the front runner, running neck and neck with Verlander and Weaver, for CY at this juncture.  But, unlike last year, where there were no clear cut aces besides Kinf Felix (despite his W-L), this year is going to be decided by how CC/Weave/Verlander/Beckett pitch down the stretch in competitive races.  IF Cy Youngs were handed out on July 27, I'd vote for CC.  But we shall see.  He's got some meaningful starts in his future.  And, while the betting man will put his chips on CC coming through like the ace he is, I am hoping the Sox and others blow him up down the stretch and make him an afterthought in the Cy Young race.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    They have so far.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    Well I hope we see Beckett vs Sabathia in late August.   Both love the heat of summer, and both represent playoff teams.  Playing in Boston and NY is a hell of a lot harder than playing in Seattle ... or Detroit.  
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Right....because the lines you posted from the 1960's, 70's and 80's are a lot more relevant now. Clueless.
    Posted by TheBabe-----------------


    I was just making a point about Ws v ERA, which included a few recent seasons. Besides, did it ever occur to you that your shallow opinions don't mean very much to me? Once a punk, always a punk.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    If I'm right Babe was trying to reference are old friend Jimy Williams, "if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his boody".  No worries Babe, I think we get the jist, it would just be more helpful if you weren't such a "dumb broad".
    Posted by molten37


    do you mean b00ty? lol!!
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : do you mean b00ty? lol!!
    Posted by Hammah29r2
    hey big D, haven't caught up in a bit, what's the word?...still looking at heading up this way?...
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    I know it was the Mariners but what a game.  He was flying under the radar for awhile but now he's simply destroying the competition.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988

    ==========================================================
      Like why in the he!! would we care? closet Yankee fan?? Geesh.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Whether the posters here like it or not, W-L has always been a big factor. 20 Wins is still a hallowed accomplishment.  Case in point: '61 W. Ford 25-4 3.21  '80 S. Stone 25-7 3.23 '83 L. Hoyt 24-10 3.66 '93 J. McDowell 22-10 3.37 '01 R. Clemens 20-3 3.51 '05 B. Colon 21-8 3.48 Keep in mind ERAs before '90 were in general lower. There's others:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young_Award
    Posted by nhsteven



    Steven, I recognize this; however, the most recent winner was 13-12, suggesting that there could be a switch in this trend. Historically, wins have played a large role in the process, but thats why I was talking about Bechett leading his team to the WS. I think as the ace of the staff, if he has 15 wins, a sub-2 ERA, and is leading a championship-bound team, he has a shot at the CY, but would by no means be a lock. It all depends on what the voters value most this year, and whether last year is a reflection of a greater trend, or an outlier.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBabe-----------------. Show TheBabe-----------------'s posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Steven, I recognize this; however, the most recent winner was 13-12, suggesting that there could be a switch in this trend. Historically, wins have played a large role in the process, but thats why I was talking about Bechett leading his team to the WS. I think as the ace of the staff, if he has 15 wins, a sub-2 ERA, and is leading a championship-bound team, he has a shot at the CY, but would by no means be a lock. It all depends on what the voters value most this year, and whether last year is a reflection of a greater trend, or an outlier.

    Posted by thewags

    That's great.....except they vote on it BEFORE the playoffs.......

     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=2604c3c63c96eedd7b70408ba89ebd5c&plckUserId=2604c3c63c96eedd7b70408ba89ebd5c">
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    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : do you mean b00ty? lol!!
    Posted by Hammah29r2
    hey big D, haven't caught up in a bit, what's the word?...still looking at heading up this way?...
     American League East...the roughest neighborhood in America..


    Hi ya jetes! yeah that's something I'm looking at. gotta check the schedule and the finances. lol. lets talk off line ok?

    not happy about only being up by 2. anybody that says that the yanks ain't scary is not dealing in reality.

    how's things in beautiful downtown manhattan eh bro?
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : That's great.....except they vote on it BEFORE the playoffs.......
    Posted by TheBabe-----------------

     

    haha oh...right. well, i disagree with this policy, and think it should be changed immediately! Embarassed
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    Going back to the question in this thread, there's no doubt that CC is right there in the AL Cy Young race, just as (as everyone here has shown) there's no doubt that CC does NOT have a "clear lead" in the Cy race, much less distance between the competition.

    As someone who lives in Fairfield County, CT (sadly, the only part in all of NE that is NOT considered to be part of Boston's sports market), I take in plenty of NY biased media, and I can tell all Yankee fans on the forum that the only people who see CC as a clear leader in the Cy race are Yankee fans.

    NYers demand the best, superlatives, awards, etc. They're never satisfied with "one of the best". Cano CAN'T be "one of the best 2Bmen in the AL"...he has to be THE best (even though he isn't). CC can't be "one of the best SPs in baseball", which he is...he has to be THE best...which he isn't (though he might be close).

    When all is said and done, he might win the award...or he might not. He probably still has some work to do to get there, though...
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    Going back to the question in this thread, there's no doubt that CC is right there in the AL Cy Young race, just as (as everyone here has shown) there's no doubt that CC does NOT have a "clear lead" in the Cy race, much less distance between the competition. As someone who lives in Fairfield County, CT (sadly, the only part in all of NE that is NOT considered to be part of Boston's sports market), I take in plenty of NY biased media, and I can tell all Yankee fans on the forum that the only people who see CC as a clear leader in the Cy race are Yankee fans. NYers demand the best, superlatives, awards, etc. They're never satisfied with "one of the best". Cano CAN'T be "one of the best 2Bmen in the AL"...he has to be THE best (even though he isn't). CC can't be "one of the best SPs in baseball", which he is...he has to be THE best...which he isn't (though he might be close). When all is said and done, he might win the award...or he might not. He probably still has some work to do to get there, though...

    Posted by redsoxu571

    Wrong...I don't see him as the clear cut leader (I think there are 3 horses in the race right now) nor do I believe he is THE best. He is one of the best though.

    But I do agree that NY'ers demand the best....what's wrong with that?

    Show me someone who is satisfied with second place and I'll show you a loser.

     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    I'm glad to see you're a NY voice of reason...I of course understand that not every single NYer thinks CC is the clear leader, but far too many seem to...which is too bad, because it discounts this awesome Cy Young race it looks like we're going to get these next two months.

    As some have said, it looks like a clear three horse race with others still able to get into the race. Weaver and Verlander have been the clear leaders for quite some time, this past month has elevated CC into the discussion for the top, and others might get there too (or someone might drop out...I hope not).


    There's never anything wrong with demanding the best, you should...I just hate it when NYers DON'T have the best, then use their media weight to artificially turn their players into the best (which is why Jeter and Cano both won gold gloves last year...they were far from the best fielders at their positions, but NY made a glorious media campaign to get Cano there).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    I'm glad to see you're a NY voice of reason...I of course understand that not every single NYer thinks CC is the clear leader, but far too many seem to...which is too bad, because it discounts this awesome Cy Young race it looks like we're going to get these next two months. As some have said, it looks like a clear three horse race with others still able to get into the race. Weaver and Verlander have been the clear leaders for quite some time, this past month has elevated CC into the discussion for the top, and others might get there too (or someone might drop out...I hope not). There's never anything wrong with demanding the best, you should...I just hate it when NYers DON'T have the best, then use their media weight to artificially turn their players into the best (which is why Jeter and Cano both won gold gloves last year...they were far from the best fielders at their positions, but NY made a glorious media campaign to get Cano there).
    Posted by redsoxu571

    Sorry, but I think this statement is ridiculous. Jeter did not deserve to win the GG, yes, and primarily due to his range. As far as Cano is concerned, his range to the right and his arm last year was unparalleled, and he made THREE errors.
    When was the last time that happened? Some say it was one of the greatest defensive performances in history. Who should have won it instead? Perhaps you are thinking of this year's Cano, which is a different story. As far as the media campaign is concerned; the GG is not voted on by the press, but coaches, managers, and possibly players. 

    As far as Team bias is concerned, what about what goes on with RS fans? Fandom is fandom, IMO. Some are more objective than others, regardless of team affilliation.

    After an illustrious long sequence of posts here, including a well deserved gig on a blog, lately you are sounding more and more partisan; perhaps living where you do is finally getting to you; I'm disappointed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    Steve, I think you have him confused with 791. Nevertheless, you're right about team bias, it effects everyone, just to varying degrees.  How it's handled is the key, as exhibited here, everyday. My belief is, you handle it as well as everything else in your life. Some do better than others.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3a4de12853-be2b-4b06-ae87-b0b93fcf7d54&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:4de12853-be2b-4b06-ae87-b0b93fcf7d54Post:8ef03164-99d8-44b1-8865-360c9e9aa055">Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    Destroying the Cy Young competition of the teams he faces? (Before tonight) WAR: CCSab  5.2 Verl      5.1 Weav   5.1 Shields 3.4 ERA: Weav  1.81 Verl     2.24 Sheil    2.53 CCSab 2.62 WHIP Verl     0.88 Weav  0.95 Shiel    1.01 CCSab 1.14
    Posted by moonslav59

    from espn.com.........

    Weaver gets to pitch in the AL West, against the weak-hitting Mariners and A’s, while Sabathia pitches in the AL East (although he doesn’t have to face the Yankees, of course). Baseball Prospectus tracks opponents’ OPS. Entering Tuesday’s game, Sabathia’s opponents' OPS was .753, Verlander’s .737 and Weaver’s .728. Sabathia’s will go down a bit after facing Seattle, but Weaver has played a slightly softer schedule. He’s made six starts against Oakland and Seattle and gone 4-1 against them, with eight runs in 45.2 innings (28 percent of his innings have come against the A’s and Mariners). 

    Babe,

    My point was not that CC is not the best, but rather he is not "running away with it".

    On another note, using your logic (if that is what we could call it), how do you know if Weaver or Verlander wouldn't have done even better had they faced the Sox and Toronto instead of Seattle and Oakland?
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3a4de12853-be2b-4b06-ae87-b0b93fcf7d54&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:4de12853-be2b-4b06-ae87-b0b93fcf7d54Post:8ef03164-99d8-44b1-8865-360c9e9aa055 " /> Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Destroying the Cy Young competition of the teams he faces? (Before tonight) WAR: CCSab  5.2 Verl      5.1 Weav   5.1 Shields 3.4 ERA: Weav  1.81 Verl     2.24 Sheil    2.53 CCSab 2.62 WHIP Verl     0.88 Weav  0.95 Shiel    1.01 CCSab 1.14 Posted by moonslav59 from espn.com......... Weaver gets to pitch in the AL West, against the weak-hitting Mariners and A’s, while Sabathia pitches in the AL East (although he doesn’t have to face the Yankees, of course). Baseball Prospectus tracks opponents’ OPS. Entering Tuesday’s game, Sabathia’s opponents' OPS was .753, Verlander’s .737 and Weaver’s .728. Sabathia’s will go down a bit after facing Seattle, but Weaver has played a slightly softer schedule. He’s made six starts against Oakland and Seattle and gone 4-1 against them, with eight runs in 45.2 innings (28 percent of his innings have come against the A’s and Mariners).  Babe, My point was not that CC is not the best, but rather he is not "running away with it". On another note, using your logic (if that is what we could call it), how do you know if Weaver or Verlander wouldn't have done even better had they faced the Sox and Toronto instead of Seattle and Oakland?

    Posted by moonslav59

    I agree that he is not running away with it. And we don't know how anyone would do in someone else's place in the same situation.

    That being said, there's definitely a difference in the competition. We all know that.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    Steve, I think you have him confused with 791. Nevertheless, you're right about team bias, it effects everyone, just to varying degrees.  How it's handled is the key, as exhibited here, everyday. My belief is, you handle it as well as everything else in your life. Some do better than others.
    Posted by J-BAY


    That would explain a few things; I had another debate a while back along these lines.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. :   haha oh...right. well, i disagree with this policy, and think it should be changed immediately!
    Posted by thewags


    Agree. The ruling (voting on the CY before the PO's) should have been changed years ago. And Josh would be polishing CC's trophy from '07.
     
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    Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.

    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race.:
    In Response to Re: Sabathia may be pitching at his best ever. Could be distancing himself in the Cy Young race. : Morning Kim, i totally get and respect your fandom, but it's not a crime to put laundry aside to appreciate good pitching wherever it's coming from.....no shot at you....just sayin...
    Posted by jete02fan


    Hey, Jete. Not a shot at you either, but I'll always question the balls/strikes calls on Yankee pitchers. I've seen it too many times. I know people don't agree with me, but it doesn't change my opinion. Having said that, I'm sure he's a good pitcher, just not one of my favorites.

    FTR, I've even seen many times when Mariano needs a strike, he just throws it a little outside the plate and always gets the call because he's "Mariano". It does happen. Anyone who doesn't believe that should watch a couple of ninth innings --- and I like Mariano. I don't know who's going to be the face of the Yankees once Jeter and Rivera leave that team.
     
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