Saint Mariano

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    Yes, he is the greatest closer of all time.  Yippy. This is an honor akin to being the greatest punter of all time. 

     

    Except that punters actually matter and don't get enough love...

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     



    That must explain the ASG moment. Also, no punters, not even Ray Guy, are in the NFL HOF. It sounds like MO shouldn't hold his breath.

     

     




     

    I think David Justice put it all into perspective when asked how the great Brave's teams of the 90s would have fared with Mariano as a closer, Justice replied that they would have won 3 or 4 championships.

    There has ever been a punter in the history of football which I follow closely that has ever given his team such an advantage.

     



    Thats absurd revisionist history from Justice. Halle Berry warped his mind. They lost in 6 games in 96, Rivera might have made a difference in game 3, with the Leyritz homer, maybe. They lost in 7 to Minesota in 91 because they couldnt win on the road, losing game 7 1-0 in ten innings. I dont recall the Braves pen blowing any of those games. How would Rivera have helped there? Was he going to pinch run for Lonnie Smith so he didnt get duped by Kirby Puckett into not scoring from second on Gant's double in the 8th or 9th inning? In 1999 they were swept by New York, but I think Justice was with the Yankees then. In 92 they lost to a wholly superior Toronto team in 6, and in 93 won 104 games in the regular season (beating a 103 win SF team out on the last day of the season thanks to the Dodgers), then lost in 6 to a dominant Phillies team that they had no chane to beat. Justice is the embodiment of the old saying "the older I get, the better I was". Even so, I dont recall that Braves team blowing a whole lot of saves, especially in the postseason other than Jimmy Leyritz and Ed Sprague. I knew that team very, very well because I followed the Reds at the time, and we were all in the old NL West. I have never hated any sports team more than I hated that Braves team. Three or four championships with Rivera? Uh uh, I don't think so Davey. Hes probably pointing to 96 and 92, adding them to the tally. Big stretch.

     

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    BTW, will NY help celebrate the greatest DH of all time when he retires? You know the answer.

     


    I guess you forgot the Boston tribute at YS after the horrible marathon incident; this doesn't surprise me.

     



    Right. As if thats the same thing. Fenway gave tribute in 2001, thats a whole different thing and you know it. Why would you even think to compare the two? Im sure the Stadium will just resound with standing ovations and tributes the day Ortiz makes his last appearance there.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Yankee organization would probably provide some respectful tribute to Ortiz if he were to announce his retirement next season, but for all we know, Ortiz could retire wearing pinstripes in 2015.  I certainly wouldn't want to see that, but if it were to happen, I'd rather see him go out like Youk, albeit with minimal physical pain and suffering.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    I do have to admit that the Yankee fans were always very gracious and treated Pedro Martinez with utmost respect. Always asking about his family, etc.  What did they give him when he retired ? I seem to forget.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     

     



    I seemed to have forgotten when he announced his retirement

     

     

     

     

     




    I guess he just retired quietly. Didn't make a big show about it.

     

     

     



    Ask any of those who met him at Fenway yesterday what they think; or, perhaps read Abraham's article. While you're at it, check with the ALL-STAR RS players.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    BTW, will NY help celebrate the greatest DH of all time when he retires? You know the answer.

     


    I guess you forgot the Boston tribute at YS after the horrible marathon incident; this doesn't surprise me.

     

     



    Right. As if thats the same thing. Fenway gave tribute in 2001, thats a whole different thing and you know it. Why would you even think to compare the two? Im sure the Stadium will just resound with standing ovations and tributes the day Ortiz makes his last appearance there.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Yankee organization would probably provide some respectful tribute to Ortiz if he were to announce his retirement next season, but for all we know, Ortiz could retire wearing pinstripes in 2015.  I certainly wouldn't want to see that, but if it were to happen, I'd rather see him go out like Youk, albeit with minimal physical pain and suffering.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, but not to this scale. This is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    BTW, will NY help celebrate the greatest DH of all time when he retires? You know the answer.

     


    I guess you forgot the Boston tribute at YS after the horrible marathon incident; this doesn't surprise me.

     

     

     

     



    Right. As if thats the same thing. Fenway gave tribute in 2001, thats a whole different thing and you know it. Why would you even think to compare the two? Im sure the Stadium will just resound with standing ovations and tributes the day Ortiz makes his last appearance there.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    The Yankee organization would probably provide some respectful tribute to Ortiz if he were to announce his retirement next season, but for all we know, Ortiz could retire wearing pinstripes in 2015.  I certainly wouldn't want to see that, but if it were to happen, I'd rather see him go out like Youk, albeit with minimal physical pain and suffering.

     

     

     

     

     



    Perhaps, but not to this scale. This is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

     

     

     



    Yes, I'll give you that. Selig probably likes the good publicity however, especially, with the Biogenesis cloud as an undercurrent.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    BTW, will NY help celebrate the greatest DH of all time when he retires? You know the answer.

     


    I guess you forgot the Boston tribute at YS after the horrible marathon incident; this doesn't surprise me.

     

     

     



    Right. As if thats the same thing. Fenway gave tribute in 2001, thats a whole different thing and you know it. Why would you even think to compare the two? Im sure the Stadium will just resound with standing ovations and tributes the day Ortiz makes his last appearance there.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Yankee organization would probably provide some respectful tribute to Ortiz if he were to announce his retirement next season, but for all we know, Ortiz could retire wearing pinstripes in 2015.  I certainly wouldn't want to see that, but if it were to happen, I'd rather see him go out like Youk, albeit with minimal physical pain and suffering.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, but not to this scale. This is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Let them play up Rivera all they want as it may be all the Yankees have to celebrate this season.  I'd rather have Rivera tributes than Yankee ring ceremonies.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    BTW, will NY help celebrate the greatest DH of all time when he retires? You know the answer.

     


    I guess you forgot the Boston tribute at YS after the horrible marathon incident; this doesn't surprise me.

     

     

     

     



    Right. As if thats the same thing. Fenway gave tribute in 2001, thats a whole different thing and you know it. Why would you even think to compare the two? Im sure the Stadium will just resound with standing ovations and tributes the day Ortiz makes his last appearance there.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Yankee organization would probably provide some respectful tribute to Ortiz if he were to announce his retirement next season, but for all we know, Ortiz could retire wearing pinstripes in 2015.  I certainly wouldn't want to see that, but if it were to happen, I'd rather see him go out like Youk, albeit with minimal physical pain and suffering.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, but not to this scale. This is getting to the point of being ridiculous.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Let them play up Rivera all they want as it may be all the Yankees have to celebrate this season.  I'd rather have Rivera tributes than Yankee ring ceremonies.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    True, youve convinced me. "Hes the greatest closer of all time, I think the Sox should really go all out to show appreciation."

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to edsam44's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Yes, he is the greatest closer of all time.  Yippy. This is an honor akin to being the greatest punter of all time. 

     

    Except that punters actually matter and don't get enough love...

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     


    and since a closer means so little...the sawx are so desperate to get one!

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, not so much.

     

    The Sox appear to be seeking relivers in general, but have had much greater success leaving the ninth inning to the hot hand, which right now belongs to Koji Uehara.  The Sox need bullpen hel[p in general, and this is why they acquired Thornton.  This is why they are talking to milwaukee about Rodriguez, Axford, and probably Henderson.  This is why they were inquring about Jesse Crain.  And why I think they will inquire about Carlos Villanueva at some point.

     

    Bullpens are a team effort, and that one player gets all the glory and salarly shows how vastly overrated closers are.  Rivera is actually the prime example of this.  Through the Yankees dynasty run in the late '90's (about the time all their "lifelong" fans re-upped membership), the Yankee bullpen featured more returning members year after year than the starting rotation did.  That entire bullpen was outstanding, yet Mike Stanton got no farewell tour.  Jeff Nelson is never discussed as a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Ramiro Mendoza never made $15mill per year.  All because they were not handed the ball with a 3-run lead and a whopping 3 outs left in the game... 

     

     

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to edsam44's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Yes, he is the greatest closer of all time.  Yippy. This is an honor akin to being the greatest punter of all time. 

     

    Except that punters actually matter and don't get enough love...

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     

     


    and since a closer means so little...the sawx are so desperate to get one!

     

     

     

     

     




    Actually, not so much.

     

     

     

    The Sox appear to be seeking relivers in general, but have had much greater success leaving the ninth inning to the hot hand, which right now belongs to Koji Uehara.  The Sox need bullpen hel[p in general, and this is why they acquired Thornton.  This is why they are talking to milwaukee about Rodriguez, Axford, and probably Henderson.  This is why they were inquring about Jesse Crain.  And why I think they will inquire about Carlos Villanueva at some point.

     

    Bullpens are a team effort, and that one player gets all the glory and salarly shows how vastly overrated closers are.  Rivera is actually the prime example of this.  Through the Yankees dynasty run in the late '90's (about the time all their "lifelong" fans re-upped membership), the Yankee bullpen featured more returning members year after year than the starting rotation did.  That entire bullpen was outstanding, yet Mike Stanton got no farewell tour.  Jeff Nelson is never discussed as a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Ramiro Mendoza never made $15mill per year.  All because they were not handed the ball with a 3-run lead and a whopping 3 outs left in the game... 

     

     

     



    So let's pretend the Saves stat didn't exist. Are the back of those guys baseball cards comparable? Since Rivera has the lowest lifetime ERA; 2.20, for those with 1 K IP since the deadball era (do those guys have even 1K IP combined?) by a ton , it doesn't appear so.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to edsam44's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to edsam44's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Yes, he is the greatest closer of all time.  Yippy. This is an honor akin to being the greatest punter of all time. 

     

    Except that punters actually matter and don't get enough love...

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     

     


    and since a closer means so little...the sawx are so desperate to get one!

     

     

     

     

     




    Actually, not so much.

     

     

     

    The Sox appear to be seeking relivers in general, but have had much greater success leaving the ninth inning to the hot hand, which right now belongs to Koji Uehara.  The Sox need bullpen hel[p in general, and this is why they acquired Thornton.  This is why they are talking to milwaukee about Rodriguez, Axford, and probably Henderson.  This is why they were inquring about Jesse Crain.  And why I think they will inquire about Carlos Villanueva at some point.

     

    Bullpens are a team effort, and that one player gets all the glory and salarly shows how vastly overrated closers are.  Rivera is actually the prime example of this.  Through the Yankees dynasty run in the late '90's (about the time all their "lifelong" fans re-upped membership), the Yankee bullpen featured more returning members year after year than the starting rotation did.  That entire bullpen was outstanding, yet Mike Stanton got no farewell tour.  Jeff Nelson is never discussed as a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Ramiro Mendoza never made $15mill per year.  All because they were not handed the ball with a 3-run lead and a whopping 3 outs left in the game... 

     

     

     

    since you brought up "lifelong yankee fans from the 90's"...how are all the "pink hats"doing? 

     



    Doing great, thanks for asking.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    If the saves stat did  not exist, then the role of "closer" would not exist. The role of closer being overrated is the whole point here.

    No one is giving Rivera a farewell tour because he is the all time leader in ERA for relief pitchers with over 1,000 IP.  I bet you could ask 100 Yankee fans who had that honor, and the ones who got it right would be guessing.  And NONE would get the ERA number.  (It's 2.05, actually, the 2.20 figure counts his time as an ineffective SP.).   

     

    He is getting his farewell tour because he was the closer for a WS dynasty team and is the all time leader in saves.  He excelled more than anyone else in a role that is ridiculously overblown.  Now, tht is not Rivera's fault, mind you.  But it is the truth.

     

    So, since no one answered, I'll ask you, nhsteven.  If the Yankees never had Marinao Rivera, how many World Series titles do you think they win between 1995 and 2001?

     

    (Hint: The funny answer is 1.  In 2001, because someone else might have nailed down that save, or at least not made the throwing error to keep the ninth inning rally alive.)

     

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Can we please stop with all this fawning, maudlin, overly sentimental gushing over Mariano Rivera ?  He is not the first great player to retire. He won't be the last. Yes , he is the greatest closer of all time. Yes , he is a first ballot Hall of Famer.  But this overdose of mawkish , emotional,  non - stop adulation is becoming nauseating.  Enough already. Please. Please.



    Been thinking same thing..glad to hear its not just me.  Enough already.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    If the saves stat did  not exist, then the role of "closer" would not exist. The role of closer being overrated is the whole point here.

    No one is giving Rivera a farewell tour because he is the all time leader in ERA for relief pitchers with over 1,000 IP.  I bet you could ask 100 Yankee fans who had that honor, and the ones who got it right would be guessing.  And NONE would get the ERA number.  (It's 2.05, actually, the 2.20 figure counts his time as an ineffective SP.).   

     

    He is getting his farewell tour because he was the closer for a WS dynasty team and is the all time leader in saves.  He excelled more than anyone else in a role that is ridiculously overblown.  Now, tht is not Rivera's fault, mind you.  But it is the truth.

     

    So, since no one answered, I'll ask you, nhsteven.  If the Yankees never had Marinao Rivera, how many World Series titles do you think they win between 1995 and 2001?

     

    (Hint: The funny answer is 1.  In 2001, because someone else might have nailed down that save, or at least not made the throwing error to keep the ninth inning rally alive.)

     

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     



    Actually, its not relief P, it's ALL P.  And you can frame that question for anybody. How many WS would the RS have won without TW? One thing that is more tangible; without Ortiz, the curse may still be ongoing.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

    If the saves stat did  not exist, then the role of "closer" would not exist. The role of closer being overrated is the whole point here.

    No one is giving Rivera a farewell tour because he is the all time leader in ERA for relief pitchers with over 1,000 IP.  I bet you could ask 100 Yankee fans who had that honor, and the ones who got it right would be guessing.  And NONE would get the ERA number.  (It's 2.05, actually, the 2.20 figure counts his time as an ineffective SP.).   

     

    He is getting his farewell tour because he was the closer for a WS dynasty team and is the all time leader in saves.  He excelled more than anyone else in a role that is ridiculously overblown.  Now, tht is not Rivera's fault, mind you.  But it is the truth.

     

    So, since no one answered, I'll ask you, nhsteven.  If the Yankees never had Marinao Rivera, how many World Series titles do you think they win between 1995 and 2001?

     

    (Hint: The funny answer is 1.  In 2001, because someone else might have nailed down that save, or at least not made the throwing error to keep the ninth inning rally alive.)

     

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein



    In all the hubub, people seem to forget that he blew game seven of the World Series. Pretty big deal, even if you take away the Dave Roberts run in 2004.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

     

     

    If the saves stat did  not exist, then the role of "closer" would not exist. The role of closer being overrated is the whole point here.

    No one is giving Rivera a farewell tour because he is the all time leader in ERA for relief pitchers with over 1,000 IP.  I bet you could ask 100 Yankee fans who had that honor, and the ones who got it right would be guessing.  And NONE would get the ERA number.  (It's 2.05, actually, the 2.20 figure counts his time as an ineffective SP.).   

     

    He is getting his farewell tour because he was the closer for a WS dynasty team and is the all time leader in saves.  He excelled more than anyone else in a role that is ridiculously overblown.  Now, tht is not Rivera's fault, mind you.  But it is the truth.

     

    So, since no one answered, I'll ask you, nhsteven.  If the Yankees never had Marinao Rivera, how many World Series titles do you think they win between 1995 and 2001?

     

    (Hint: The funny answer is 1.  In 2001, because someone else might have nailed down that save, or at least not made the throwing error to keep the ninth inning rally alive.)

     

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     



    In all the hubub, people seem to forget that he blew game seven of the World Series. Pretty big deal, even if you take away the Dave Roberts run in 2004.

     

     

     



    And yet, the experts are astounded by his magnificent PS numbers, which includes a PS ERA of 0.7, and rings for an entire hand; who knew.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    None of which makes the postion of closer any less overrated.

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    None of which makes the postion of closer any less overrated.

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     

    Perhaps, but then again. one can say that about any position. So why bother even bringing it up? Including the sidetracked interlaced commentary, and the overall tone, the answer is obvious. Otherwise, this is about as weak as claiming Lincoln was a bad president.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    Yes, he is the greatest closer of all time.  Yippy. This is an honor akin to being the greatest punter of all time. 

     

    Except that punters actually matter and don't get enough love...

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     



    That must explain the ASG moment. Also, no punters, not even Ray Guy, are in the NFL HOF. It sounds like MO shouldn't hold his breath.

     

     




     

    I think David Justice put it all into perspective when asked how the great Brave's teams of the 90s would have fared with Mariano as a closer, Justice replied that they would have won 3 or 4 championships.

    There has ever been a punter in the history of football which I follow closely that has ever given his team such an advantage.

     

     




     

     

    OK, for some additonal perspective, how many World Series titles would the Yankees have won without Rivera as closer?

     




     

    A few less. Hard to calculate what one player on a good team is worth but he has been pretty reliable for 19 years, not a lot of injuries.

    He was Wetteland's set up in 1996 then the closer for 4 other World Championships. 5 rings total.

    Hard to compare him to another closer in the history of the game because no one else has come close to doing that.

    All time regular and post season save record holder.

    Not so much that he was good at what he did but what stands out when you consider the life span of a decent closer is how long Mariano did it at the level that he did.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    None of which makes the postion of closer any less overrated.

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     

    Perhaps, but then again. one can say that about any position. So why bother even bringing it up? Including the sidetracked interlaced commentary, the answer is obvious. Otherwise, this is about as weak as claiming Lincoln was a bad president.




    No, one cannot say that about any position.

     

    Closer is the most overrated positon in sports, and there can only be one most overrated position, by defintion of the word most.

     

    I have noticed in the context of your arguments, you have focused on the "Rivera was great" aspect, and avoided making any statements tht counter closer being overrated.  Well, you made one try, but it actually supported the idea.

     

    I have never said Rivera isn;t the greatest closer.  I just think that closer itself is a very, very overrated position.  And it is.  Citing Rivera's post-season numbers and career ERA does not change this.

     

    You are not alone in this thinking closer is not overrated.  The entire BBWAA for some reason loves closers, but hates DHs.  They have never voted for a full time DH into Cooperstown.  They have never elected a DH as MVP. Closers have been voted for both by them.  (Interestingly enough, the managers and coaches are worse.  They once voted for a DH as a Gold Glove winner in Rafael Palmeiro.  So not playing the field means you cannot be the best player, but it can mean you are the best fielder.  Go figure.)

     

    So, Rivera is the greatest closer ever.  He is a first ballot Hall of Famer.  I agree with both those statements.  By virtue of the career numbers, David Ortiz is the greatest DH ever.  Is he a first ballot Hall of Famer, too?

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    None of which makes the postion of closer any less overrated.

     

     

    “Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me. Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”

    -Shel Silverstein

     

     

    Perhaps, but then again. one can say that about any position. So why bother even bringing it up? Including the sidetracked interlaced commentary, the answer is obvious. Otherwise, this is about as weak as claiming Lincoln was a bad president.

     




    No, one cannot say that about any position.

     

     

    Closer is the most overrated positon in sports, and there can only be one most overrated position, by defintion of the word most.

     

    I have noticed in the context of your arguments, you have focused on the "Rivera was great" aspect, and avoided making any statements tht counter closer being overrated.  Well, you made one try, but it actually supported the idea.

     

    I have never said Rivera isn;t the greatest closer.  I just think that closer itself is a very, very overrated position.  And it is.  Citing Rivera's post-season numbers and career ERA does not change this.

     

    You are not alone in this thinking closer is not overrated.  The entire BBWAA for some reason loves closers, but hates DHs.  They have never voted for a full time DH into Cooperstown.  They have never elected a DH as MVP. Closers have been voted for both by them.  (Interestingly enough, the managers and coaches are worse.  They once voted for a DH as a Gold Glove winner in Rafael Palmeiro.  So not playing the field means you cannot be the best player, but it can mean you are the best fielder.  Go figure.)

     

    So, Rivera is the greatest closer ever.  He is a first ballot Hall of Famer.  I agree with both those statements.  By virtue of the career numbers, David Ortiz is the greatest DH ever.  Is he a first ballot Hall of Famer, too?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    He might have a problem with the hall having failed the 2003 MLB administered Test.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Saint Mariano


    And you're comparing a DH a borderline Hofer that is if the ped stuff is overlooked to one of the greatest ever to play the game.

    I know that won't gain much traction on Sox blog but it happens to be the truth.

    Mariano could be the best ballplayer to come out of this era.

     

Share