Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    CERA notes:
    1) It is a highly limted stat.
    2) It should be used pitcher by pitcher individually.
    3) It should not be used to compare catchers from different teams.
    4) Sample sizes should be close to even.
    5) Sample sizes should be large enough for each catcher.

    Please note that several samples sizes here very small and some are not close to even...

    Red is better.

    CERA Numbers: (innings / CERA)

    Beckett:
    Salty  58  4.47  (7.36 in 2011)
    Shop  43   4.60

    Lester:
    Salty 84  6.13 (3.77 in 2011)
    Shop 37  3.68

    Buchholtz:
    Salty 54  5.70 (3.52 in 2011)
    Shop 54  4.17

    Doubront:
    Salty  80 4.97  (5.19 in 2011)
    Shop  27  3.29

    Bard:
    Salty  34 4.81  (4.54 in ´11)
    Shop  21  5.91

    Morales:
    Salty  33  2.18 (4.24 in 2011)
    Shop  22  4.98

    Cook:
    Salty  31  3.48
    Shop    5  3.60

    Dice-K:
    Salty  18  6.50  (31.50 in ´11)
    Shop     5  7.20

    Aceves:
    Salty  38  4.26  (2.82 in ´11)
    Shop   12  2.31

    Atchsion:
    Salty  37  2.45  (2.70 in´11)
    Shop    9   0.00

    Albers:
    Salty  22  2.86  (5.53 in ´11)
    Shop  15  1.17

    Padilla:
    Salty  19  5.12 
    Shop  17  1.62

    Miller:
    Salty  13  2.08  (4.08 in ´11)
    Shop  10  3.60

    Salty has been better with 6 pitchers.
    Shop has been better with 7 pitchers.

    Salty has been better with 5 of our 8 starters.
    Shop has been better with 4 of our 5 relievers with 23+ IP.

    Salty has been better than 2011 with 7 of 11 pitchers.

    I am nearly certain we´d see a great change in these numbers had the comparative split been made on May 1st rather than the start of 2012. Salty has done much much better since May 1st. I am not going to take the time to determine the CERA of Salty and Shopp since May 1st, but here are some raw numbers:

    Runs NOT ERs...

    April 2012:
    Salty: 91 runs in 14 full games (plus 4 runs in 2 inn as replacement)
    6.5 per game
    Shop: 20 runs in 6 games.
    3.3 per game


    May to present:
    Salty: 250 runs in 52 full games
    4.8 per game
    Shop in 105 in 25 near full games
    4.2 per game (but he was taken out in late innings more often)

    As you can see, we have improved greatly with Salty since April, but we have let up more runs with Shoppach after April than the month of April alone. This pretty much shows that the CERA differential has improved greatly in Salty´s favor since April.


    We were 2-9 in Salty´s first 11 games.
    We were 4-16 in his first 20 games.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Pretty good stuff, moonslav. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Shopp has 4 PB in 295 innings: Salty has 5 in 586 innings.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    moon, the only problem with the pitching improvement is this- the numbers were good in May and June but have been poor again in July (though not as bad as April).

    It appears that the numbers improved when we were playing NL teams and weaker offences.  Now that we're up against teams like the Yankees and Rangers again they've gotten worse again.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]moon, the only problem with the pitching improvement is this- the numbers were good in May and June but have been poor again in July (though not as bad as April). It appears that the numbers improved when we were playing NL teams and weaker offences.  Now that we're up against teams like the Yankees and Rangers again they've gotten worse again.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    1) Seattle & Oakland are not a bad offensive team. It is their park that lowers their numbers.

    2) Here are the numbers since we stopped playing Oakland in July:
    Salty:
    NYY  10 ER
    NYY    4 ER
    NYY    6 ER   (NYY  6.67 CERA)
    TBR     0 ER
    TBR     3 ER  (TB  1.50 CERA)
    CWS    0 ER  
    CWS    7 ERs in 8 inn (CWS ERA ~3.60)
    TOR     5 ERs
    TOR    15 ERs (CERA vs TOR  10.00)
    TEX      8 ERs
    TEX      0 ER in 1 Inn (TEX CERA ~ 7.20)

    Shopp:
    NYY  6 ER    (6.00 CERA)
    TBR   5 ERs  (5.00 CERA)
    CWS  o ERs in 1 inn
    CWS  1 ER
    CWS  1 ER  (CWS CERA ~ 0.90)
    TOR   5 ER   (5.00 CERA vs TOR)
    TEX   1 ER in 8 inn
    TEX   5 ER  (TEX CERA ~3.10)

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]How about Opponents batting avg. between Catchers. You wont like it.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    Since May 1st, I bet it is near even.

    If people want to think Salty is the same catcher from the start of his career to May 1st of this year, then so be it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]Another thing some people are missing is that Salty usually chases the low inside curve and the high heater, both of which Nathan threw and Salty did not bite...I think Nathan meant to throw those pitches hoping Salty would chase as he usually does...Nathan put them where he wanted them and Salty did a great job of holding back in that situation...Thats where I give Salty the credit...Nathan was being very careful...If he couldnt get Salty to chase, so be it, but he wasnt gonna lay one over the plate for him to knock the laces off the ball...He wouldve rather taken his chances with a RHH in Aviles IMO...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]
    Exactly. Unlike another poster, you saw what Nathan and Salty were doing.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : 1) Seattle & Oakland are not a bad offensive team. It is their park that lowers their numbers. 2) Here are the numbers since we stopped playing Oakland in July: Salty: NYY  10 ER NYY    4 ER NYY    6 ER   (NYY  6.67 CERA) TBR     0 ER TBR     3 ER  (TB  1.50 CERA) CWS    0 ER   CWS    7 ERs in 8 inn (CWS ERA ~3.60) TOR     5 ERs TOR    15 ERs (CERA vs TOR  10.00) TEX      8 ERs TEX      0 ER in 1 Inn (TEX CERA ~ 7.20) Shopp: NYY  6 ER    (6.00 CERA) TBR   5 ERs  (5.00 CERA) CWS  o ERs in 1 inn CWS  1 ER CWS  1 ER  (CWS CERA ~ 0.90) TOR   5 ER   (5.00 CERA vs TOR) TEX   1 ER in 8 inn TEX   5 ER  (TEX CERA ~3.10)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    So the overall CERA's for these games are approximately:

    Salty 5.8
    Shopp 3.4

    Correct?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : I didn't equate their performances. Check with Danny. I didn't say that in that situation Nathan was concerned about Nava stealing. Trouble with his control or not, Nathan was being careful with Salty. He had seen the game the night before. A pitcher having control troubles doesn't serve up goodies to a batter who had hit the ball a ton the night before and has 19 homers.  The walk to Salty was the result of control troubles AND extra care. More Baseball 101 for you. Once again, your penchant for attributing to me what I didn't say. Southpaw called you on that too.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Here is what you said expitch, in the very next post above mine:

    With men on base, pitchers try hard not to walk people, especially if they get behind in the count. Salty might get more good pitches to hit. Pitchers have to think about the runners as well as the batter. A little distraction there. With runners on, the batter is likely to see more FB's if a steal if suspected. 

    Then you said, in the very same post:

    More Baseball 101 for you. Once again, your penchant for attributing to me what I didn't say.

    Actually though, you did say it. Is it a reading problem or a writing problem? Or a memory problem? Or just being a contrarian to cover your behind when you mess up......Bingo.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]Shopp has 4 PB in 295 innings: Salty has 5 in 586 innings.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    How about CS in innings played? You left that out.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : Since May 1st, I bet it is near even. If people want to think 
    Salty is the same catcher from the start of his career to May 1st of this year, then so be it.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon, I don't think anyone said "Salty is the same catcher from the start of his career to May 1st of this year". I do think what he has done in his entire career is relevant though, and I don't see why anyone would think that it isn't.

    I think Salty may well be better since the beginning of the year but I doubt that he is much different. It's just that the results are different in terms of CERA and the games in the beginning of the year were just as important as now. Yes, they do count and are relevant to this discussion. Do we think he had an epiphany and started being 30% better 25 games in?

    Honestly, I think all of you Salty supporters are grasping at straws regarding Salty's defense. The evidence is clear that Salty is not a good defender. He can hit dingers and hopefully that continues. 

    Expitch thinks the Rangers were so concerned about pitching to Salty and his .150 or so average this month. There are varying degrees of positions being cemented here and that one takes the cake.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    As far as I can see the only pitchers with good numbers pitching to Salty are Morales and Cook.

    Beckett, Lester and Buchholz all have ERA's of 4.47 or higher pitching to Salty since he got here.  Yikes. 
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    As far as I can see the Sox need all the offense they can get. Shoppach played his 2nd straight start and what happened...3 Ks in 3 at bats. Salty has 19 HR, homered in his very last start, and drew a walk as a pinch hitter to help the team win in his last appearance. If the team was getting offense from other sources that would be one thing, but the fact is that they are not. Salty's offense is neede d, AND IT'S F-ING TIME THAT ALL THE PITCHERS GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER WITH HIM. KEVIN CASH HAD A GREAT TIME CATCHING THE SOX STAFF A FEW YEARS AGO--EXCEPT HE COULDN'T HIT AND THE TEAM WAS DOING NOTHING, SO ALL THE GREAT CERA IN THE WORLD PRODUCED FEW WINS. SO TAKE ALL THE NUMBERS WITH ALL THE CATCHERS AND SHOVE IT...Salty should have started last game and Shoppach can catch Lester/Beckett if those prima donnas need the extra coddling. Aceves and Salty doing the God salute at the end of saves is the only sense of camaradie I see on this LIFELESS team. There's more to catching and more to baseball than just defensive statistics for catchers. 
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    And he's still got 10 more HRs than AGON, 12 more than Pedroia, and Ellsbury/Crawful have 0 combined.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Gene Tenace was a pretty darn good catcher and Dave Duncan turned into quite possibly the best bullpen/pitching coach ever. As for HRs, on a team that is void of CREATING runs via other ways, the HR is now important. Bad comparison. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    danny, we're 28-37 with Salty and 21-13 with Shoppach.  Those home runs by Salty are not equating to wins.

    Hitting right-handed pitching for power is the one thing Salty clearly does well. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Tenace slugged 20 or more HRs in 5 different seasons, 4 in a row. In the 72 WS, he broke out on the scene with 4 HRs....HRs are very important and makes a catcher with power even more important.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]danny, we're 28-37 with Salty and 21-13 with Shoppach.  Those home runs by Salty are not equating to wins. Hitting right-handed pitching for power is the one thing Salty clearly does well. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Right, Shoppach gets credit for the win No. 21, a game which he left tied, Salty came in, drew a big-time walk that put the GW run in scoring position, then caught Aceves 1-2-3 9th inning, BUT SHOPPACH GETS CREDIT FOR THE WIN...ANOTHER LAUGHABLE STATISTIC IS W-L RECORD FOR CATCHERS, JUST AS LAUGHABLE AS CERA. 
     

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