Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Shoppach can't play every day, do you understand that? He's exposed v. good pitching just as much as Salty, and he strikes out a lot as well. It's not a reason to play him 7 straight games when you have another catcher who does hit key HRs and does help the team despite your foggy memory of May/June when Salty was regularly hitting bombs, the Staff was pitching quite well, and he was helping the team win. 
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Right, but Gene Tenace did hit for power and Dick Williams was damn glad he hit 4 jacks to help the A's win the 72 Series. Don't you get it? Tenace was the A's version of Carlton Fisk. He emerged as their best catcher. Shoppach is no Gene Tenace, never was even close to that. Have you ever looked at Shoppach's careern numbers? Not a starter.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]Whats their avg, and whats their CLUTCH stats?
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    To me, Late & Close shows clutch numbers as well as any other stat, and Salty has done better than most other Sox players in this area:

    With 30+ PAs:

    Ross   .906 (3HR 11RBIs in 46 PAs)
    AGon  .815 (3HR 10RBIs in 62 PAs)
    Pedey.795  (1HR 5RBIs in 55 PAs)
    Salty  .771  (3HR  8RBIs in just 48 PAs)
    Aviles.720  (2 HR  6 RBI in 61 PAs)
    Papi   .697 (0 HRs 2RBIs in 50 PAs)
    Midds .424 (1 HR  4RBIs in 37 PAs)
    Nava  .378  (o HR 2 RBIs in 31 PAs)

    Salty has the 2nd most HRs and RBIs per PA in Late & Close situations.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Duncan was in a miserable batting slump when Tenace replaced him, it's one of the reasons why he was replaced. It HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DEFENSE OR PITCHING TO HIM.
     
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    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Salty doesn't have Gene Tenace sitting on the bench ready to take his spot, DO YOU NOT GET THAT? DO YOU THINK LAVARNWAY WOULD HAVE 19 Hr, 45 rbi right now? He wasn't even brought up to DH for Ortiz!!! Shoppach is a nice backup, that's what he is and he makes a great tandem with Salty. 
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    BINGO, BINGO, BINGO....right, they had a fantastic staff and Williams saw that Duncan wasn't even getting on base. Back then, you hit or you get benched. End of story. But now you have 30 teams with 28 Dave Duncans and no Gene Tenaces to replace them. And to be fair, there's really only about 5 catchers now that even hit better than Duncan, so MLB has become mediocrity in catching. Thus that's why Salty's low average is meaningless, but his 19 HR, 45 RBI ARE MEANINGFUL 
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : Right, Shoppach gets credit for the win No. 21, a game which he left tied, Salty came in, drew a big-time walk that put the GW run in scoring position, then caught Aceves 1-2-3 9th inning, BUT SHOPPACH GETS CREDIT FOR THE WIN...ANOTHER LAUGHABLE STATISTIC IS W-L RECORD FOR CATCHERS, JUST AS LAUGHABLE AS CERA. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    You can keep laughing, man.  Personally I'm not finding it funny at all.  2 years in a row Salty has a much higher CERA and we have a much worse record when he catches.  Yeah, that is freakin' hilarious.  Maybe he's just unlucky and Varitek and Shoppach had rabbit's paws stuffed in their gear. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Yaeh, if VTek was here Lester and Beckett would be throwing 4 mph harder.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Here are the up-to-date numbers for 2011 and 2012:

    2011 CERA/W-L
    Varitek 3.57 42-22
    Salty 4.62 47-49

    2012 CERA/W-L
    Shoppach 3.65 21-13
    Salty 4.54 28-37

    Combined CERA/W-L
    Varitek/Shoppach 3.60 63-35 (.643)
    Salty 4.59 75-86 (.466)

    These are not gaps, they are gulfs.  A full run in CERA.  .180 in winning pct.

    What's really interesting is how consistent the respective CERA's for the two years are now.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : Right, Shoppach gets credit for the win No. 21, a game which he left tied, Salty came in, drew a big-time walk that put the GW run in scoring position, then caught Aceves 1-2-3 9th inning, BUT SHOPPACH GETS CREDIT FOR THE WIN...ANOTHER LAUGHABLE STATISTIC IS W-L RECORD FOR CATCHERS, JUST AS LAUGHABLE AS CERA. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Danny, not taking away from Salty's HRs, but aren't you the one who started the thread about how Salty gets it? How his primary job is not to provide offense, but to handle the pitching staff?

    Give him his due credit for his 19 HRs, even though his OBP and K rate are not good, but for whatever reason, the pitchers and the team are not performing as well when Salty is behind the plate.  That, IMO, reigns far more important than his 19 HRs.

    And not to nitpick, but since you've stated it about 3 different times now, Aceves and Salty did not have a 1-2-3  9th inning.  There was a 2 out walk to Napoli.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    kimmi, ok, a 1-2-3-4 inning, but nothing hurt and a save and a WIN.

    bobbysu, ok. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Salty has done much better since May 1st. I know 12-13 weeks is not a hige sample size, but at Salty´s current age, one can think he has turned things around to the bright side. VTek did not start having great CERA comparatives until he was about 30.
     
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    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    moon, if this was 1992, do you really think people would even question Salty as the starting catcher? Answer, no.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    They'd be wondering if he would set a new Sox catcher's mark for homers in a season. It's the cyberstats and metrics of trying to grade defense (something that was supposedly a negative to Ellsbury, which made no sense since he was fabulous defensively last year) that drives the force. And the team's poor record. I still think and I still believe that the onus falls on the pitchers to pitch well, and it's like an old repeating recording to still say a Beckett or a Lester have trouble throwing to Salty, whose now been on the staff for 1-1/2 years. Time to stop the blame game on the catchers.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    I do think catchers can and often do make big differences, and over a long season the difference can mean several more wins (or losses).

    harness made a good point about catchers making the most difference when a pitcher was neither in a zone (pitching great no matter who is the catcher) or pitching poorly. It´s the inbetween games that a great catcher can have a heavy influence on a pitcher´s results.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    I'm not dismissing CERA altogether, but I'm trying to also make a point that there is no Varitek sitting waiting to play. It's Shoppach, a veteran who has basically proven he's not really an everyday catcher, and Larvarnway, who the Sox feel still isn't MLB caliber. To me, trying to push Salty out the door at this stage is not only short-sighted, it's crazy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    VTek played 86 games at age 26 (1998). His first FT season was at age 27 for the 1999 season.

    1998:
    Hatteberg  4.10 in 904 innings
    VTek            4.29 in 516 innings

    1999:
    VTek           3.98 in 1153 inn
    Hatteberg  3.15 in 158 inn
    Webster     3.55 in 38 inn

    2000:
    VTek           3.96 in 1096 inn
    Hatteberg 5.02 in 377 inn

    Sidenotes: 

    1) Total season CERA can be misleading since some catchers catch better pitchers than the other. Pitcher by pitcher analysis is better.

    2) Hatteberg was, not to my knowledge, even known as a great game-calling catcher back in the day, so the fact that he did better than VTek in 1998 and 1999 speaks volumes about VTek´s not "getting it" until he turned 28 years old in 2000. Salty turns 28 next May.

    3) Aren´t we glad we didn´t go by defensive metrics after the 1999 season and dump VTek? (Vtek had a CS rate of 28, 27, and 25% his first 3 years. Salty´s career up to age 27 is 24%.)

    Edit: Check this out:
    VTek PBs:
    18 in 516 inn at age 26 (would have led the league if he had 900+ inn)
    25 in 1153 inn at age 27 (led the league in PBs)
    14 in 1076 inn at age 28 (led the league in PBs)

    That's 57 in his first 2700+ innings.
    Salty has 41 in his first 3046 innings. 
    Both caught Wake in these innings.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : To me, Late & Close shows clutch numbers as well as any other stat, and Salty has done better than most other Sox players in this area: With 30+ PAs: Ross   .906 (3HR 11RBIs in 46 PAs) AGon  .815 (3HR 10RBIs in 62 PAs) Pedey.795  (1HR 5RBIs in 55 PAs) Salty  .771  (3HR  8RBIs in just 48 PAs) Aviles.720  (2 HR  6 RBI in 61 PAs) Papi   .697 (0 HRs 2RBIs in 50 PAs) Midds .424 (1 HR  4RBIs in 37 PAs) Nava  .378  (o HR 2 RBIs in 31 PAs) Salty has the 2nd most HRs and RBIs per PA in Late & Close situations.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Just curious. What are his stats with 2 out and RISP?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    Hatteberg was a somewhat productive offensive player too. So again, offense plays into every catcher argument---more so when the team is struggling offensively with less hitting talent in the lineup. You can absolutely carry a weak-hitting, non-productive, defense only catcher if you have 5 or 6 bats in your order carrying the load consistently. That's not the case with 2012 Sox. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB : Just curious. What are his stats with 2 out and RISP?
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]

    What a non-meaningful stat for a catcher...who cares.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia--10th best catcher in MLB

    It has more meaning if it's AGON, Ortiz and Pedroia...they are paid to be hitters.
     

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