Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    ... to avoid arbitration, according to this blog from Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2012/01/15/red-sox-avoid-arbitration-with-jarrod-saltalamacchia-agree-to-1-yr-25m-deal/

    MLB Trade Rumors had projected a 2012 salary of $1.6 million for Jarrod Saltalamacchia:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/red-sox-saltalamacchia-avoid-arbitration.html

    The Red Sox edge closer to the luxury tax threshold.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]... to avoid arbitration, according to this blog from Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald : http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2012/01/15/red-sox-avoid-arbitration-with-jarrod-saltalamacchia-agree-to-1-yr-25m-deal/ MLB Trade Rumors had projected a 2012 salary of $1.6 million for Jarrod Saltalamacchia: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/red-sox-saltalamacchia-avoid-arbitration.html The Red Sox edge closer to the luxury tax threshold.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

     This is good news, with the confidence of his manager and the FO, he can concentrate on his game and not having to look over his shoulder, I expect a big improvement.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    I hope that everyone read the full article and didn't just giggle at your picture. Is Gansett still sold anywhere?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    anyone care to explain why we paid salty 900,000 more than he was projected to get in arb? he had a crap batting average, was mediocre defensively, and add to that the fact that we have ryan lavarnway, this deal makes little sense. For a team that is being money conscious, sign scutaro and salty for a comibed 8.5 mill when we could have started iglesias and larvarnway for a quarter of that makes no sense. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]anyone care to explain why we paid salty 900,000 more than he was projected to get in arb? he had a crap batting average, was mediocre defensively, and add to that the fact that we have ryan lavarnway, this deal makes little sense. For a team that is being money conscious, sign scutaro and salty for a comibed 8.5 mill when we could have started iglesias and larvarnway for a quarter of that makes no sense. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    Because the projection was on the low side.  HR's lead to big paydays in arb hearings, and Salty had 16 of them in just 386 PA's (103 games).  He certainly has a lot of room for improvement as an everyday catcher, but all his agent would have had to do was point to his HR rate of 25 per season (based on 2011) and he could have landed and even bigger payday depending on what the Sox were going to submit as their figure.

    It would have been nice to have signed him for under $2M, but it'll be interesting in the coming days to see who was used as the comparable.  That could shed some more light on the signing.

    Also, Scoot still would have been owed $1.5M this year regardless of what we did (assuming he declined his player option and instead took the buyout).  Not that I would have had a problem with him walking, or being dealt soon, but not something that can be overlooked.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]anyone care to explain why we paid salty 900,000 more than he was projected to get in arb? he had a crap batting average, was mediocre defensively, and add to that the fact that we have ryan lavarnway, this deal makes little sense. For a team that is being money conscious, sign scutaro and salty for a comibed 8.5 mill when we could have started iglesias and larvarnway for a quarter of that makes no sense. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    I have mentioned trading Scutaro and Salty for the same reason: Lava and Iggy are better AND cheaper. It's not too late to trade them now, but it ain't happening.

    BTW, if we let Scutty walk, we'd have had to pay $1.5M, so his net cost was only $4.5M, not $6M. The ctaula cost would be: 
    Scutaro $6M + Salty $2.5M + Iggy $2.1M = $10.6M
    vs
    Scutaro buyout $1.5M + Lava $.5M + Iggy $2.1M = $4.1M

    The differential is actually about $6.5M not $8M.


    Also, if we traded Salty and went with Lava, then Shoppach is not a good match-up, since both hit LHPs better than RHPs (unlike Salty & Shopp). 


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    ya it was more scutaros 6 mill than saltys 2.5 that i was concerned about. salty as the back up with lavarnway starting would have been ideal. but picking up scutaros option was dumb.  his defense(which is the most important thing at shortstop NOT offense as some people on this board have been suggesting) is below average at this point. he has little range and a weak arm. did the fo not see how many balls he failed to get to and how many of his throws were not quick enough to get people out? Iglesias is a defensive stud. who cares if he hits out of the 9 spot. his defense will save runs. One way or another this team needs to get a pitcher. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    I think picking up Scutaro's option could be worth it, if we trade him for a prospect. We could even pay $1.5M of his deal and break even vs the choice of letting him walk this winter, but we can get a prospect for him as well. I think several teams would take him if his contract was $4.5M in 2012. The problem is, we won't trade him until maybe July.

    You're preaching to the choir on the value of defense at SS. Iggy would save way more hits over a full season on defense than what Scutaro would get on offense. Even Aviles & Punto might be better options than Scutty. The three of them would make for a nice combo. We could PH for Iggy late in games.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    I hear both of you as to the value of defense at SS, but there is a break even point.  Given their contracts, I can certainly see Iggy as being a better value, but value doesn't win championships by itself.  Who do you think gives the Sox the best chance at winning a game?  Take the contracts out of it for a minute.  Scoot offers more offense, but won't save as many hits, Iggy would be lucky to hit .230, but will save a bunch of hits (most of which would be singles).  Who helps the team more in 2012?  I'd be all for moving Scoot if it meant using his money to address other needs, but frankly I'm sick of all of the topics that have been discussed to death already on here.

    Iggy vs. Scoot straight up, who helps the team the most, independent of salary?

    P.S. sorry if I missed this conversation earlier in the season/off season already.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]I hear both of you as to the value of defense at SS, but there is a break even point.  Given their contracts, I can certainly see Iggy as being a better value, but value doesn't win championships by itself.  Who do you think gives the Sox the best chance at winning a game?  Take the contracts out of it for a minute.  Scoot offers more offense, but won't save as many hits, Iggy would be lucky to hit .230, but will save a bunch of hits (most of which would be singles).  Who helps the team more in 2012?  I'd be all for moving Scoot if it meant using his money to address other needs, but frankly I'm sick of all of the topics that have been discussed to death already on here. Iggy vs. Scoot straight up, who helps the team the most, independent of salary? P.S. sorry if I missed this conversation earlier in the season/off season already.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]
    You're overlooking the fact the SS makes most of the throws on relay plays and is often the middleman on double plays. Both of these plays benefit from a strong arm, and vice versa. Over the course of a season, these plays figure in runs prevented and runs allowed. The guy either scores from first on a double, gets held up, or gets thrown out at the plate. A double plays stifles offense, often to end an inning. Missing it extends the inning and leaves a man on base. Scutaro's arm is not much help in these situations. 
    An outstanding SS with a good arm does much more than prevent singles. Think back to Cabrera in 2004. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    2.5 mil is a steal for Salty...take that extra cash saved and sign Oswalt please
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million... : You're overlooking the fact the SS makes most of the throws on relay plays and is often the middleman on double plays. Both of these plays benefit from a strong arm, and vice versa. Over the course of a season, these plays figure in runs prevented and runs allowed. The guy either scores from first on a double, gets held up, or gets thrown out at the plate. A double plays stifles offense, often to end an inning. Missing it extends the inning and leaves a man on base. Scutaro's arm is not much help in these situations.  An outstanding SS with a good arm does much more than prevent singles. Think back to Cabrera in 2004. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Very true.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    I hear both of you as to the value of defense at SS, but there is a break even point.  Given their contracts, I can certainly see Iggy as being a better value, but value doesn't win championships by itself.  Who do you think gives the Sox the best chance at winning a game?  Take the contracts out of it for a minute.  Scoot offers more offense, but won't save as many hits, Iggy would be lucky to hit .230, but will save a bunch of hits (most of which would be singles).  

    I think Iggy wins more games batting .190 than Scutty will batting .280.

    Who helps the team more in 2012?  

    Iggy with Aviles and Punto as back-ups (PH'ers).

    I'd be all for moving Scoot if it meant using his money to address other needs, but frankly I'm sick of all of the topics that have been discussed to death already on here.

    We could also trade Youk and use Scutaro/Aviles/Punto/Middlebrooks at 3B and vastly improve 2 positions on defense with one trade.

    Iggy vs. Scoot straight up, who helps the team the most, independent of salary?

    I'd still take Iggy. I think even an Aviles/Punto combination might do as well as Scutaro. What you are missing is that the salary does matter. The real comparison could be:

    SS: Scutaro (Back-ups: Aviles/Punto/Iggy)
    SP: Silva/Cook/Miller

    or

    SS: Iggy (Aviles/Punto)
    SP: Gavin Floyd, Garza, Oswalt, or whatever we can get for $6M.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]I'd still take Iggy. I think even an Aviles/Punto combination might do as well as Scutaro. What you are missing is that the salary does matter. The real comparison could be: SS: Scutaro (Back-ups: Aviles/Punto/Iggy) SP: Silva/Cook/Miller or SS: Iggy (Aviles/Punto) SP: Gavin Floyd, Garza, Oswalt, or whatever we can get for $6M.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No, I'm not missing that the salaries do matter.  I'm simply excluding them from this exercise because it's something that has been talked to death already.  I don't doubt that the Sox could construct a better team with Iggy at SS instead of Scoot, but we need to find the right complementary pieces to use his $6M on and I'm not sure that those pieces are still out there aside from possibly Oswalt.  Even then, his asking price would have to come down.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In response to "Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...": [QUOTE]I hear both of you as to the value of defense at SS, but there is a break even point.  Given their contracts, I can certainly see Iggy as being a better value, but value doesn't win championships by itself.  Who do you think gives the Sox the best chance at winning a game?  Take the contracts out of it for a minute.  Scoot offers more offense, but won't save as many hits, Iggy would be lucky to hit .230, but will save a bunch of hits (most of which would be singles).   I think Iggy wins more games batting .190 than Scutty will batting .280. Who helps the team more in 2012?   Iggy with Aviles and Punto as back-ups (PH'ers). I'd be all for moving Scoot if it meant using his money to address other needs, but frankly I'm sick of all of the topics that have been discussed to death already on here. We could also trade Youk and use Scutaro/Aviles/Punto/Middlebrooks at 3B and vastly improve 2 positions on defense with one trade. Iggy vs. Scoot straight up, who helps the team the most, independent of salary? I'd still take Iggy. I think even an Aviles/Punto combination might do as well as Scutaro. What you are missing is that the salary does matter. The real comparison could be: SS: Scutaro (Back-ups: Aviles/Punto/Iggy) SP: Silva/Cook/Miller or SS: Iggy (Avilestf/Punto) SP: Gavin Floyd, Garza, Oswalt, or whatever we can get for $6M. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] I agree with you, Moon, that Iggy's defense is more important than Scoot's offense, but if Iggy struggles at the plate that badly to start the season, does it shatter his confidence and start to affect his fielding? If he hits well enough this spring, then sure, give him a shot, but I'd like Scoot as insurance for now. Not sure if Scoot gets you enough in trade at this point to justify move. I understand the contract savings, but I'd be a little nervous with Iggy, Punto and Aviles as only SS options...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    Moon - I still think you put way too much emphasis on defense here (Iggy vs Scut). Afterall, the Yanks have been winning with the worst fielding SS in league history Tongue out

    Until Iggy can show that he can bat .240, he needs to stay in the minors or just be a utility player.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]Moon - I still think you put way too much emphasis on defense here (Iggy vs Scut). Afterall, the Yanks have been winning with the worst fielding SS in league history 
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Interesting fact.  The only year that Jeter had an above average defensive season (as defined by a UZR above 0) since 2002 was during the Yankees' 2009 championship season.  One could make the argument that during the Yankees run from 1998-2000 that defense wasn't as important due to rampant steroid usage throughout baseball.

    Of course, Jeter also had an .871 OPS in 2009, which certainly helped NYY.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

     I don't doubt that the Sox could construct a better team with Iggy at SS instead of Scoot, but we need to find the right complementary pieces to use his $6M on and I'm not sure that those pieces are still out there aside from possibly Oswalt.  Even then, his asking price would have to come down.
    Free agency is not the only way to spend the $6M, but even so, I'd rather have:
    Iggy and Oswalt
    or 
    Iggy, Cody Ross, and Francis
    than Scutty and Silva and DMac.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In response to "Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...":
    I hear both of you as to the value of defense at SS, but there is a break even point.  Given their contracts, I can certainly see Iggy as being a better value, but value doesn't win championships by itself.  Who do you think gives the Sox the best chance at winning a game?  Take the contracts out of it for a minute.  Scoot offers more offense, but won't save as many hits, Iggy would be lucky to hit .230, but will save a bunch of hits (most of which would be singles).   I think Iggy wins more games batting .190 than Scutty will batting .280. Who helps the team more in 2012?   Iggy with Aviles and Punto as back-ups (PH'ers). I'd be all for moving Scoot if it meant using his money to address other needs, but frankly I'm sick of all of the topics that have been discussed to death already on here. We could also trade Youk and use Scutaro/Aviles/Punto/Middlebrooks at 3B and vastly improve 2 positions on defense with one trade. Iggy vs. Scoot straight up, who helps the team the most, independent of salary? I'd still take Iggy. I think even an Aviles/Punto combination might do as well as Scutaro. What you are missing is that the salary does matter. The real comparison could be: SS: Scutaro (Back-ups: Aviles/Punto/Iggy) SP: Silva/Cook/Miller or SS: Iggy (Avilestf/Punto) SP: Gavin Floyd, Garza, Oswalt, or whatever we can get for $6M.
    Posted by moonslav59

    I agree with you, Moon, that Iggy's defense is more important than Scoot's offense, but if Iggy struggles at the plate that badly to start the season, does it shatter his confidence and start to affect his fielding? If he hits well enough this spring, then sure, give him a shot, but I'd like Scoot as insurance for now. Not sure if Scoot gets you enough in trade at this point to justify move. I understand the contract savings, but I'd be a little nervous with Iggy, Punto and Aviles as only SS options...

    1) Make Iggy aware that you do not need him to hit. I know the media and fans would roast him if he was at .190 in late June, but I think he can handle it. He's 22 now and is making $2.1M a year. 

    2) I think you are undervaluing Aviles and Punto. Both of these guys field better than Scutty at SS (not as well as Iggy, but much better than Scutty) and together, if played correctly, could give us close to the offense that Scutaro brings. 

    3) Scutaro played hurt for much of 2010, and missed significant time in 2011 as well. He's a year older and may decline at the plate more than expected, making the comparison even closer (or farther from my point of view-in Iggy's favor).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]Moon - I still think you put way too much emphasis on defense here (Iggy vs Scut). 

    It is a fact that the best ranged SSs in MLB make over 100 more plays than the worst each and every year. Scutaro was near the bottom in range for 2011. I'd bet Iggy would be near the top in 2012, and Scutaro will not rise much, if any. I think projecting 80 more defensive plays by Iggy over Scutaro is not out of line. Plus, all the runners he'd hold or throw out as a relay man.

    If Iggy goes 100 for 500 (.200), it would be like he's hitting .360 compared to Scutty's .280. (100 hits + 80 saved hits on defense= 180/500 or .360.) 

    Afterall, the Yanks have been winning with the worst fielding SS in league history Until Iggy can show that he can bat .240, he needs to stay in the minors or just be a utility player.

    1) I think the Yanks had more guns than just Jeter. 
    2) Jeter hit better than Scutaro.
    3) Jeter has a better relay arm than Scutaro.
    4) Jeter had better fielding 3Bmen next to him than Scutaro in 2011 and 2012.

    The difference between a .200 and .240 hitter is just 20 hits over 500 ABs.
    If Scutaro bats .280, he'd get about 40 more hits than iggy at .240. Are you saying Iggy will only make about 40 more plays than Scutaro over a full season on defense? (Making them even in your eyes)
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    Here's a breakdown of the best and worst SSs (by range) in 2011

    (SSs with 1300+ innings) 
    Plays Made
    S. Castro    338  (1399) +74
    A. Cabrera 264  (1327)

    (with 1200-1299 innings)
    Rollins          300  (1207) +42
    Bartlett         300   (1211)
    Peenington  258  (1272)

    (with 1100-1199 inn)
    Hardy          300  (1133) +51
    Escobar       249  (1121)

    (with 929-1087)
    Cedeno       292   (1050) +102
    Jeter           210   (1047)
    Scutaro       190   (929)

    If we projected Scutaro's 2011 season to 1400 innings, he'd have made 285 plays.
    If we projected Cedeno to 1400 innings, he'd have made about 405 plays.
    That's over 115 more plays!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE] Free agency is not the only way to spend the $6M, but even so, I'd rather have: Iggy and Oswalt or  Iggy, Cody Ross, and Francis than Scutty and Silva and DMac.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    I'm also not about to given up significant pieces for Gavin Floyd either though.  quality, cheap pitching is at a premium on the trade market right now.  I'm not that impressed with Floyd, although he would certainly fit in our budget with an AAV under $4M.  I see him putting up numbers similar to Lackey's 2010, but with about 30 fewer innings.  Not great, but helpful.  It would really come down to the asking price.  Garza would cost a kings ransom and still be over budget.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    I don't understand all the love for Iglesias. How do you really know he's a great defensive player? Who here has really seen enough of him to draw such a conclusion? We do know that he can't hit AAA pitching, let alone major league pitching. We also know that Scutaro is a very consistent, solid offensive contributor, and one of the few true professionals on a team of brittle self-entitled miscreants. While he lacks the defensive range of some of the other shortstops mentioned, he still makes the occasional great play deep in the hole. He's not a butcher at shortstop, in the way Carl Crawford was in left field.

    I like Marco Scutaro on my team. He's not going to be the problem. I'm more worried about the health of Beckett, Lester and Buchholz. There will be enough depth at the 4-5 spots to make it through the season successfully.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]I don't understand all the love for Iglesias. How do you really know he's a great defensive player? Who here has really seen enough of him to draw such a conclusion?
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    Every scout that's ever seen him play.  Also, I watched a good number of Paw Sox games last year when he was healthy.  His defense is legit.
     
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    Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...

    In Response to Re: Saltalamacchia signs for $2.5 million...:
    [QUOTE]I think picking up Scutaro's option could be worth it, if we trade him for a prospect. We could even pay $1.5M of his deal and break even vs the choice of letting him walk this winter, but we can get a prospect for him as well. I think several teams would take him if his contract was $4.5M in 2012. The problem is, we won't trade him until maybe July. You're preaching to the choir on the value of defense at SS. Iggy would save way more hits over a full season on defense than what Scutaro would get on offense. Even Aviles & Punto might be better options than Scutty. The three of them would make for a nice combo. We could PH for Iggy late in games.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Trading Scutarto at 35 is still a viable option. At 36, forget it. If he is not traded before or at the TD, we will be stuck with him next year.
     
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