Salty/Russell Martin Debate

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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    That's why I say Salty has a higher ceiling in this area, compared to VMART.
    I'm pulling for Salty, Moon. It's hard not to root for this affable kid.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    I know you are harness. We all are, except for a certain clown.

    VTek can't play forever, so eventually we need to find someone who can come close to his expertise at handling our expensive staff.

    I'm still far from thinking Salty can be that guy, but I feel good about him so far. His offense since May 1st has helped ease the worry some, but I hear yah. He needs to improve quickly by playoff time in the other areas. If Tito pulls another Vtek playoff benching, we'll need him at his best. I can see Tito using Vtek only for Beckett once the playoffs start.
     
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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]I know you are harness. We all are, except for a certain clown. VTek can't play forever, so eventually we need to find someone who can come close to his expertise at handling our expensive staff. I'm still far from thinking Salty can be that guy, but I feel good about him so far. His offense since May 1st has helped ease the worry some, but I hear yah. He needs to improve quickly by playoff time in the other areas. If Tito pulls another Vtek playoff benching, we'll need him at his best. Ican see Tito using Vtek only for Beckett once the playoffs start.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    You aren't wrong often, but I sure hope you are here.
    Lester's record with Tek speaks for itself.
    Salty should be limited to Buch.

    This could be the difference in a short series, especially in one where the team loses it's DH, if you get my drift.

    If Tito/Theo pull another '09, they don't deserve their fans.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    VTek was better with Lester than VMart as well. Has Tito learned from that mistake?

    I hope VTek keeps hitting, so the offensive part of the choice is not that enticing to Tito.

    I could see Beckett and Lester with VTek and Buch, Lackey and Wake with Salty.
     
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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    I'm talking PO's, Moon.
    They should go with 3 starters in a short 3 of 5 series.
    Salty is limited to Buch.

    Tek should be getting limited PT once the Sox secure the PO spot...to keep him fresh.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]I'm talking PO's, Moon . They should go with 3 starters in a short 3 of 5 series. Salty is limited to Buch. Tek should be getting limited PT once the Sox secure the PO spot...to keep him fresh.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I know you are talking Playoffs, and Tito used VMart with Lester before. My question remains unanswered: has he learned?

    This year, the Playoffs will not have as many off days. It is likely we may need 4 starters for the Playoffs. If Buch does not come back, Wake could even be the 3rd starter, which means Salty for him. Even if Buch comes back, Wake could possibly be the 4th guy: meaning Salty catches 2 out of 4. Lackey seems to do equally as bad with VTek as anyone else, so I can see Tito going with Salty, even if he looks at CERA data. It remains to be seen who Miller does better with.

    I'm agreeing with you, harness, but I am not sure Tito is.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    Anyone who prefers Salty over Martin needs to have their head examined
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]Anyone who prefers Salty over Martin needs to have their head examined
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Well thought out...Not.  You make it like its an open and shut case.  Martin is hitting .220.  Not .320.  .2 freaking 20.  If Salty was hitting .220, you would want to kill him and his entire family.  Can we please deal in reality for once.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]Anyone who prefers Salty over Martin needs to have their head examined
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    FYI, Martin's OPS is down to .692.  Salty now holds a bigger offensive advantage over Martin than VMart does over Salty.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    Even Vtek is doing better than Martin with the bat!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    The Yankees should cut Martin.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]Even Vtek is doing better than Martin with the bat!
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    VTek gets to rest more, and Martin is ailing. You should know better.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : FYI, Martin's OPS is down to .692.  Salty now holds a bigger offensive advantage over Martin than VMart does over Salty.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Did you forget about game calling and defense? Do I need to repeat the "Ray Schalk" story? Perhaps you should re-check what Harness had to say.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]VTek was better with Lester than VMart as well. Has Tito learned from that mistake? I hope VTek keeps hitting, so the offensive part of the choice is not that enticing to Tito. I could see Beckett and Lester with VTek and Buch, Lackey and Wake with Salty.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    As you allude to, in 2009, the 2nd half offensive advantage of VMart over Tek was signfificant.  This year to date, Salty and Tek are fairly comparable offensively.  The question for me is, at what point does an offensive upgrade overcome a defensive downgrade at the catching position?

    My feeling is that barring a significant dropoff from either one,  Francona will continue to platoon the two catchers in the playoffs in a manner similar to what he is doing now.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    There should be no debate anymore. Martin is who he is and Salty has only one way to go and that is up.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : VTek gets to rest more, and Martin is ailing. You should know better.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I know better, but nobody cut VTek any slack for his bad offensive numbers while playing hurt the last few years.

    VTek brings more than his bat to the equation. His bat has been the surplus so far.

    I'll take a healhy Salty/VTek over an oft-injured Martin/Cervelli.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : Yes, I know better, but nobody cut VTek any slack for his bad offensive numbers while playing hurt the last few years. VTek brings more than his bat to the equation. His bat has been the surplus so far. I'll take a healhy Salty/VTek over an oft-injured Martin/Cervelli.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I'll agree that's debatable.
     
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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]Matt Kemp being better than Bellsbury should be the only thing spoken about right now.
    Posted by bettersoftthanlaw[/QUOTE]

    Ignoramus

     
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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : I know you are talking Playoffs, and Tito used VMart with Lester before. My question remains unanswered: has he learned? This year, the Playoffs will not have as many off days. It is likely we may need 4 starters for the Playoffs. If Buch does not come back, Wake could even be the 3rd starter, which means Salty for him. Even if Buch comes back, Wake could possibly be the 4th guy: meaning Salty catches 2 out of 4. Lackey seems to do equally as bad with VTek as anyone else, so I can see Tito going with Salty, even if he looks at CERA data. It remains to be seen who Miller does better with. I'm agreeing with you, harness, but I am not sure Tito is.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I have no issue with Salty catching two of 4 PO games IF it's Buch/Wake.
    Lackey could get hot and undermine Wake or Miller in a 4-man rot. If that's the case, I'd go with Tek. Lackey's numbers with Tek last year were quite good. This year's numbers reflect injury/etc. However, Salty also did a nice job w/Lackey in 2010. Might come down to the opposing pitcher on this one.

    I wonder what Tito would do if Lackey is mediocre by PO time...and Miller is pitching well. Lackey would never forgive such a slight.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : Yes, I know better, but nobody cut VTek any slack for his bad offensive numbers while playing hurt the last few years. VTek brings more than his bat to the equation. His bat has been the surplus so far. I'll take a healhy Salty/VTek over an oft-injured Martin/Cervelli.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Oh, one of us did...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]There should be no debate anymore. Martin is who he is and Salty has only one way to go and that is up.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    Martin is clearly better with defense and "game calling" which is why Theo tried to sign Russel in the off season.  Jason would have been the odd man out and Salty our back up.  I'm sure a few fans will debate this but it would be moot point.  When the season is over you will probably see Martin and Tek with similar stats even though I believe Martin is better than his 220 average.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : Did you forget about game calling and defense? Do I need to repeat the "Ray Schalk" story? Perhaps you should re-check what Harness had to say.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    I think harness suggested that what little data was available did not favor Martin with regards to calling games.  What's left - framing pitches?  He'd better be very, very good at framing pitches. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate : I think harness suggested that what little data was available did not favor Martin with regards to calling games.  What's left - framing pitches?  He'd better be very, very good at framing pitches. 
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree with Harness on this. (Perhaps you also overlooked his comment about Salty having a loooooong way to go; selective reading.) There's also the handling of pitchers, and the physical defensive skills, BTW; blocking pitches in the dirt; leading the league in CS % last yr; plays at the plate, general glove play etc. He's also a clutch hitter, despite the #s. However, you can diss this "All Star as voted by his peers" all you want.  
     
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    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    I don't necessarily agree with what I saw either. I'm just relating it. I don't think any of it can be considered conclusive. The bottom line is, NY is a major contender with a pitching staff that is performing better than many projected. Whether they would be better or worse without him is debateable, but all that matters is what's currently happening.
     
    I think all catchers involved in this discussion deserve merit.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate

    In Response to Re: Salty/Russell Martin Debate:
    [QUOTE]I don't necessarily agree with what I saw either. I'm just relating it. I don't think any of it can be considered conclusive. The bottom line is, NY is a major contender with a pitching staff that is performing better than many projected. Whether they would be better or worse without him is debateable, but all that matters is what's currently happening.   I think all catchers involved in this discussion deserve merit.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Agreed; Salty's progress has exceeded my expectations (whatever that's worth); kudos to Theo and his evaluators; Yankees are happy with Martin too; and, we should leave it at that.
     

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