Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    Salty, even if he improves, will not cost a ton to resign IMO. He'll get a raise for sure, but this team can afford a bit of a raise for a catchwer that has continuously improved since arriving in Boston.

    Maybe, but if he does improve, he will cost more than if we extend him now.

    If we offer him say a 4/40 deal (just throwing numbers out there) and he totally flops, the FO is going to look very dumb. Id rather spend $$ that he has earned than give him a contract before he deserves one.

    I get your point, and I wouldn't offer $40/4, but maybe $26/4, which is actually $4.5M/ 1 plus $20.5M//3. I realize this is a gamble, but catchers are hard to find. If he hits 35 dingers this year, continues improving on defense, and brings up his OBP over .300 or .315, He'll get more than this on the open market.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    That thinking is what got us in trouble with Beckett.

    Yes, but making decisions based on one or a couple failures is not necessarily the right thing to do. 

    Are we glad we extended Lester and Buch? Pedey? Yes, they were arb cases, but they all could be traded for value right now, or kept at relatively low cost producers.



    Its not the fact that the Beckett extension didnt work out but the thinking itself. If Salty was more of a "sure thing" like Posey or Molina, then yeah. Beckett wasnt a consistent pitcher and never stayed in shape. He started experiencing more back issues. If the Sox waited til the end of the year, like I wanted, They wouldve got him at a lower yearly AAV. If he left, then we got 2 picks. No big deal.

    I really dont think Salty will ever be at that level of the 2 players that I mentioned are on. I also believe, like ive stated before, that If the Sox offered a fair deal, Salty would stay. I dont see him as the type to squabble over a couple million. The Sox are the only team that gave him a fair chance to be a starting catcher. Now thats no going to get them a huge discount, but is another team offers 1 more mil a year, I think he stays. If he does do even better, I have no problem giving a good contract to a deserving catcher.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    That thinking is what got us in trouble with Beckett.

    Yes, but making decisions based on one or a couple failures is not necessarily the right thing to do. 

    Are we glad we extended Lester and Buch? Pedey? Yes, they were arb cases, but they all could be traded for value right now, or kept at relatively low cost producers.

     



    Its not the fact that the Beckett extension didnt work out but the thinking itself. If Salty was more of a "sure thing" like Posey or Molina, then yeah. Beckett wasnt a consistent pitcher and never stayed in shape. He started experiencing more back issues. If the Sox waited til the end of the year, like I wanted, They wouldve got him at a lower yearly AAV. If he left, then we got 2 picks. No big deal.

     

    I really dont think Salty will ever be at that level of the 2 players that I mentioned are on. I also believe, like ive stated before, that If the Sox offered a fair deal, Salty would stay. I dont see him as the type to squabble over a couple million. The Sox are the only team that gave him a fair chance to be a starting catcher. Now thats no going to get them a huge discount, but is another team offers 1 more mil a year, I think he stays. If he does do even better, I have no problem giving a good contract to a deserving catcher.



    Just because Salty is not on the level of the catchers you mentioned, does not mean he shouldn't be extended. He wouldn't be making as much as they would either.

    Don't take this personal, because I respect you as a fine poster, but you seem to criticize me for speculating on signings and player choices of where they want to play, but you are taking liberties on the expectation that any player will not "squabble over a couple million". Many teams gave Salty a chance. One could say we gave up on him last year by making Lava the starter. I'd have been really upset, if I was salty last year. He was having a great year for a catcher and was improving on his defense. His one big issue to prove was duabiltiy, and they denied him the chance to do it, as well as the chance to put up bigger numbers for his arb case this year.

    It's a gamble. If we don't extend Salty, and he has a better year, he will make a lot of money in today's FA market. We will lose way more than a couple million. On the flip side, if we extend him for, let's say, $20M/3 for 2014-2016, and he stinks up the place in 2013, we may be able to trade him and lose maybe $5-10M in payments to the other team. I guess is all depends on how much faith you and I have in Salty. 

    Last winter, I was arguing often and loudly to trade him. I had not faith in his defense and pitcher handling skills. That changed a lot last year, and I am optimistic about his future, which seems strange in light of us being on flip sides of the optimist scale of late.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    Kinda glad he's still around.  Can't help but like the dude.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    I'm known on this forum as a proponent of Wins Above Replacement, but I'm puzzled about how Jarrod Saltalmacchia far outdistanced Seattle catcher Jesus Montero in WAR last season. FanGraphs gave Saltalamacchia 2.0 WAR and Montero -0.2 WAR while Baseball Reference gave Saltalamacchia 1.1 WAR and Montero -0.3 WAR.

    Saltalamacchia and Montero posted identical park- and league-adjusted OPS+ of 95 in 2012 (Saltalamacchia in 447 plate appearances and Montero in 553 plate appearances).

    WAR gave Saltalamacchia more position credit because he played 852 innings behind the plate to Montero's 487.2 innings. Catcher defense is difficult to quantify, but some 2012 numbers for Saltalamacchia and Montero are similar:

    JS 852.0 I, 6 PB, 23 WP 80 SB, 18 CS (18%), 3 E, .991 Fld%, 4.84 CERA*

    JM 487.2 I, 7 PB, 19 WP, 58 SB, 12 CS (17%), 3 E, .993 Fld%, 3.78 CERA

    Then again, one rating of catcher defense ranked Saltalamacchia 78th and Montero 108th among 116 catchers in 2012:

    http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/10/04/fogging-the-measure-catcher-defense-ratings-final-2012-edition/

    On Sunday Boston Globe columnist Nick Cafardo mentioned Seattle as a possible destination for Saltalamacchia, but the Mariners are unlikely to be interested in one year of Saltalamacchia at $4.5 million when the 23-year-old Montero could approach a similar performance at the league minimum salary while the M's wait for top prospect Mike Zunino. The Mariners could well pursue a short-term commitment with a veteran catcher known for defense.

    Update: Seattle reportedly has signed veteran catcher Ronny Paulino

    http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2013/1/21/3901964/ronny-paulino-seattle-mariners-stats-contract

    * the Catcher ERA is neither park- nor league-adjusted.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    Like Salty the person, don't like Salty the player (way way too many strikeouts, throws to him at home too often go right through his body to the backstop).  We've got catching depth in spades, trade the dude.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty Signs 1 Year 4.5....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    That thinking is what got us in trouble with Beckett.

    Yes, but making decisions based on one or a couple failures is not necessarily the right thing to do. 

    Are we glad we extended Lester and Buch? Pedey? Yes, they were arb cases, but they all could be traded for value right now, or kept at relatively low cost producers.

     



    Its not the fact that the Beckett extension didnt work out but the thinking itself. If Salty was more of a "sure thing" like Posey or Molina, then yeah. Beckett wasnt a consistent pitcher and never stayed in shape. He started experiencing more back issues. If the Sox waited til the end of the year, like I wanted, They wouldve got him at a lower yearly AAV. If he left, then we got 2 picks. No big deal.

     

    I really dont think Salty will ever be at that level of the 2 players that I mentioned are on. I also believe, like ive stated before, that If the Sox offered a fair deal, Salty would stay. I dont see him as the type to squabble over a couple million. The Sox are the only team that gave him a fair chance to be a starting catcher. Now thats no going to get them a huge discount, but is another team offers 1 more mil a year, I think he stays. If he does do even better, I have no problem giving a good contract to a deserving catcher.

     



    Just because Salty is not on the level of the catchers you mentioned, does not mean he shouldn't be extended. He wouldn't be making as much as they would either.

     

    Don't take this personal, because I respect you as a fine poster, but you seem to criticize me for speculating on signings and player choices of where they want to play, but you are taking liberties on the expectation that any player will not "squabble over a couple million". Many teams gave Salty a chance. One could say we gave up on him last year by making Lava the starter. I'd have been really upset, if I was salty last year. He was having a great year for a catcher and was improving on his defense. His one big issue to prove was duabiltiy, and they denied him the chance to do it, as well as the chance to put up bigger numbers for his arb case this year.

    It's a gamble. If we don't extend Salty, and he has a better year, he will make a lot of money in today's FA market. We will lose way more than a couple million. On the flip side, if we extend him for, let's say, $20M/3 for 2014-2016, and he stinks up the place in 2013, we may be able to trade him and lose maybe $5-10M in payments to the other team. I guess is all depends on how much faith you and I have in Salty. 

    Last winter, I was arguing often and loudly to trade him. I had not faith in his defense and pitcher handling skills. That changed a lot last year, and I am optimistic about his future, which seems strange in light of us being on flip sides of the optimist scale of late.




    No offense taken.

    I dont have an issue at all extending Salty, Moon. Weve been supporters of him for a while now. Im just talking from a position of the Sox and what they might be thinking.

    I like the kid and hope he remains inBoston.

     
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