Salty's defensive numbers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Salty's defensive numbers

    Salty is currently amoung the worst catchers in baseball in terms of the below stats for players with over 300 innings caught:

    errors by a catcher
    passed balls by a catcher
    error percentage
    CERA
    CS percentage
    Range Factor
    Fewest double plays 

    He is not among the best defemsive catchers in any stat. Yet there are posters here who say he's doing a great job defensively.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    Lava, still not on the Big League Roster. They even had a chance to bring him up with Ortiz on the DL....the ringing response by the Sox FO---nope, sorry, Ryan still not ready. The Sox are already treating Ciriaco with very kid gloves and now must feel that they don't want to put him in a position to fail now that he cooled off a bit. Nava--well I've already said that BV overused him to ad nauseum. Middlebrooks proved over a course of several months that he was a quality regular and it hastened the exit of Youkilis. Bottom line is that the only young Sox player who has established himself after Middlebrooks is....Saltalamachia, who is still young in MLB terms as a starting catcher. 
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : Once again --- and again and again -- I don't "ignore" stats. I decide how valuable this or that stat is in relation to other criteria, and sometimes question the methodology that produced the stat. Do you know how every stat you rely upon is produced?  I have as much right to my method of evaluation as do the producers and consumers of stats. If you prefer what the producers are giving you and buy the interpretation of those numbers, you have every right to do so. Has it ever occurred to you that "my opinion" is based on a respectable way to evaluate catchers? 
    Posted by expitch


    I am not bashing Salty. I have never said or felt that he should be replaced by Lavarnway. In fact, I've said the opposite. The only thing that I have said is that I don't think that Salty is as good defensively as some people give him credit for, but I also have said that I think he's developing and improving nicely. I also have never said that watching the games and the players is not important.

    My opinion has not changed regarding the need for defensive stats in addition to seeing what the players do on the field. If one thinks that one can fully evaluate a catcher's defensive ability by what he sees on the field, disregarding the stats, that is his prerogative. I happen to disagree. Why is it that teams employ both scouts and stat geeks?

    I certainly meant no personal offense to you in my posts. Poor choice of words, I guess, on my part. I apologized twice to you for whatever I said that might have offended you. I apologize again if you were offended.

    If you feel the need to respond by calling me a liar, presumptious, and arrogant, and by implying that I don't know anything about the pitcher/catcher dynamic or about the assumptions/methodologies that are used to employ the stats that I quote or that I don't know what I'm talking about, that is your prerogative as well.

    But responses like that bring a Socrates quote to mind....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    I come in here and after all the numbers I posted half of you now say:

    1) You were only defending Salty, responding to criticism when you were talking up Salty first, saying how great he was offensively and defensively ( Expitch...you know you were on Salty's bandwagon all year long dude. Only recently, after I mentioned the strikeout issue, you started even considering it. What a sack of you know what ).

    2) Salty is great a covering wild pitches now? Look at the numbers again. He is awful at WP not blocked even this year. 17 so far in 1/2 year. He had 41 last year when he caught Wakefield! Both near the worst in the league.

    3) Caught stealing percentage: LAST


    4) CERA: 2nd from LAST:


    5) Assists: 2nd from LAST


    6) PUTOUTS: 2ND FROM LAST


    7) DOUBLE PLAYS: 2ND FROM LAST


    8) FIELDING PERCENTAGE: 2ND FROM LAST


    Do I REALLY have to go on? How much data do you have to see before you finally just admit it. Salty does not appear to be a good defensive catcher. So far, in comparison to a league average catcher his DRS is a minus 6. In other words he has cost his team 6 runs compared to an average defensive catcher so far this year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    But you know we really shouldn't judge Salty from one bad month should we?

    April 2012: .240 average
    May 2012: .308 average
    June: .208 average
    July: .122 average

    BTW: He was 6th from the worst of all catchers in baseball in blocking pitches from 2008-2011:

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    Oh Yeah....let's not blame Salty because it's really only his first full year of mlb catching right?

    Wrong! He now has had 1429 mlb level AB. This is his 5th year as a mlb level catcher. Not counting 2010 when he was demoted to AAA almost all year after 3 years in the majors:

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    You guys are the biggest tap dancers in baseball history. The data shows over and over and over that Salty is NOT a good defensive catcher.

    By the way, he doesn't throw out runners much because his release is incredibly slow.

    His only hope really is to keep hitting dingers. That HR pop is great and of course IT IS OF SUBSTANTIAL VALUE. Just spare us the supplementary BS because it is not fact based.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : I am not bashing Salty. I have never said or felt that he should be replaced by Lavarnway. In fact, I've said the opposite. The only thing that I have said is that I don't think that Salty is as good defensively as some people give him credit for, but I also have said that I think he's developing and improving nicely. I also have never said that watching the games and the players is not important. My opinion has not changed regarding the need for defensive stats in addition to seeing what the players do on the field. If one thinks that one can fully evaluate a catcher's defensive ability by what he sees on the field, disregarding the stats, that is his prerogative. I happen to disagree. Why is it that teams employ both scouts and stat geeks? I certainly meant no personal offense to you in my posts. Poor choice of words, I guess, on my part. I apologized twice to you for whatever I said that might have offended you. I apologize again if you were offended. If you feel the need to respond by calling me a liar, presumptious, and arrogant, and by implying that I don't know anything about the pitcher/catcher dynamic or about the assumptions/methodologies that are used to employ the stats that I quote or that I don't know what I'm talking about, that is your prerogative as well. But responses like that bring a Socrates quote to mind....

    Posted by RedSoxKimmi
    It IS presumptuous to pretend to know how another person's "biases" may or may not affect his judgment in a specific situation. It's even a bit arrogant.
    School me on the assumptions and methodologies that underlie your stats. 
    You brought up the principle of comparison, not me. I never compared Salty and Lavarnway. 
    You haven't spoken in any specific detail about the pitcher/catcher dynamic, only about stats. How am I supposed to know whether you know anything about that dynamic? I'm listening.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : It IS presumptuous to pretend to know how another person's "biases" may or may not affect his judgment in a specific situation. It's even a bit arrogant. School me on the assumptions and methodologies that underlie your stats.  You brought up the principle of comparison, not me. I never compared Salty and Lavarnway.  You haven't spoken in any specific detail about the pitcher/catcher dynamic, only about stats. How am I supposed to know whether you know anything about that dynamic? I'm listening.
    Posted by expitch

    You have obviously weighed in on the side of Salty over and over. Spare us the BS. I don't care if you were the Pope's personal baseball consultant. Sometimes you get it wrong. Let everyone else here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    I come in here and after all the numbers I posted half of you now say: 1) You were only defending Salty, responding to criticism when you were talking up Salty first, saying how great he was offensively and defensively ( Expitch...you know you were on Salty's bandwagon all year long dude. Only recently, after I mentioned the strikeout issue, you started even considering it. What a sack of you know what ). 2) Salty is great a covering wild pitches now? Look at the numbers again. He is awful at WP not blocked even this year. 17 so far in 1/2 year. He had 41 last year when he caught Wakefield! Both near the worst in the league. 3) Caught stealing percentage: LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherCaughtStealingPct 4) CERA: 2nd from LAST: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA 5) Assists: 2nd from LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/assists/qualified/true/order/true 6) PUTOUTS: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/putouts/qualified/true/order/true 7) DOUBLE PLAYS: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/doublePlays/qualified/true/order/true 8) FIELDING PERCENTAGE: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c Do I REALLY have to go on? How much data do you have to see before you finally just admit it. Salty does not appear to be a good defensive catcher. So far, in comparison to a league average catcher his DRS is a minus 6. In other words he has cost his team 6 runs compared to an average defensive catcher so far this year.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    Yes, another sack from you. Be careful not to stink up book soldier headquarters far behind the lines. You might lose a couple of your stat stripes.
    I STARTED a thread on Salty's K's. Don't flatter yourself ( again and again and again ) to think that you put me onto that topic. More egomaniacal fantasy. Otherwise, until the last couple of posts, I've had almost nothing to say about Salty's offense. I recently said that if people ahead of him has been getting base better, his 19 homers would have produced a lot more runs. Danny agreed. I started to scrutinize his defense as a way of determining whether he was getting a fair shake, and decided he wasn't. After paying careful attention for many games, I came to the conclusion that his defense is very good and improving. I never said he is now a "great defensive catcher." You put that in my mouth. Others who know the game have come to the same conclusion. McCarver commented on it. A catcher friend has commented upon it.
    Don't trip on your numbers sheets on your way to the latrine. But do get there in a hurry.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    But you know we really shouldn't judge Salty from one bad month should we? April 2012: .240 average May 2012: .308 average June: .208 average July: .122 average BTW: He was 6th from the worst of all catchers in baseball in blocking pitches from 2008-2011:
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    This chart means NOTHING to this conversation because were talking about how much hes improved THIS year....
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    I come in here and after all the numbers I posted half of you now say: 1) You were only defending Salty, responding to criticism when you were talking up Salty first, saying how great he was offensively and defensively ( Expitch...you know you were on Salty's bandwagon all year long dude. Only recently, after I mentioned the strikeout issue, you started even considering it. What a sack of you know what ). 2) Salty is great a covering wild pitches now? Look at the numbers again. He is awful at WP not blocked even this year. 17 so far in 1/2 year. He had 41 last year when he caught Wakefield! Both near the worst in the league. 3) Caught stealing percentage: LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherCaughtStealingPct 4) CERA: 2nd from LAST: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA 5) Assists: 2nd from LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/assists/qualified/true/order/true 6) PUTOUTS: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/putouts/qualified/true/order/true 7) DOUBLE PLAYS: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/doublePlays/qualified/true/order/true 8) FIELDING PERCENTAGE: 2ND FROM LAST http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c Do I REALLY have to go on? How much data do you have to see before you finally just admit it. Salty does not appear to be a good defensive catcher. So far, in comparison to a league average catcher his DRS is a minus 6. In other words he has cost his team 6 runs compared to an average defensive catcher so far this year.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    I suggest you re-read my post...I said It SEEMS we are defending him now...When we started this it was to show how much hes improved this year...Not about charts from 2008-2011...And he HAS improved...Dont put words in my mouth please...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    Oh Yeah....let's not blame Salty because it's really only his first full year of mlb catching right? Wrong! He now has had 1429 mlb level AB. This is his 5th year as a mlb level catcher. Not counting 2010 when he was demoted to AAA almost all year after 3 years in the majors: http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457454#level='MLB'&sectionType=career&statType=1&season=2012&gameType='R'
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Once again...name one team that said he was their starter and it was HIS job, where he didnt have to look over his shoulder...All these teams expected him to come in and be a star because of the hype yet no team took the real time to properly groom him...when he failed to live up to expectations he was replaced, traded or whatever...You can give me how many games hes played in the last 6 years since he was 22, i said this is his first team hes been on that he was the starter without having to look over his shoulder for better or for worse...There is a difference...Also, like ex just stated...We are not saying Salty is an incredible defensive catcher and NEVER have...We are stating that he has greatly improved his game THIS YEAR and deserves to be given more time to see if he plateaus or further improves his game, instead of being replaced once again...We (myself, Ex, Moon and Danny) believe he should get that chance...Get it now?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : Yes, another sack from you. Be careful not to stink up book soldier headquarters far behind the lines. You might lose a couple of your stat stripes. I STARTED a thread on Salty's K's. Don't flatter yourself ( again and again and again ) to think that you put me onto that topic. More egomaniacal fantasy. Otherwise, until the last couple of posts, I've had almost nothing to say about Salty's offense. I recently said that if people ahead of him has been getting base better, his 19 homers would have produced a lot more runs. Danny agreed. I started to scrutinize his defense as a way of determining whether he was getting a fair shake, and decided he wasn't. After paying careful attention for many games, I came to the conclusion that his defense is very good and improving. I never said he is now a "great defensive catcher." You put that in my mouth. Others who know the game have come to the same conclusion. McCarver commented on it. A catcher friend has commented upon it. Don't trip on your numbers sheets on your way to the latrine. But do get there in a hurry.
    Posted by expitch


    In case you haven't noticed STILL, Salty's defense is not very good and there is no indication that it is improving!

    I have seen you in action for over a year now expitch. You are full of it. Self absorbed to the max. You think you are always right and when someone points out that the data doesn't support your position AT ALL...it's "But, But, But" and "I never said that" and "I was the first" ( when you were not )...etc. 

    Why not just tell the truth dude! As a former pitching coach for Dadeaux I would think that would be credibility enough for you ( if it's true ). When all the data in the world shows your position is flawed you have the GALL to tell ME you don't have time to teach me about the basics of baseball. And yet you keep getting it wrong. Over and over.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : Once again...name one team that said he was their starter and it was HIS job, where he didnt have to look over his shoulder...All these teams expected him to come in and be a star because of the hype yet no team took the real time to properly groom him...when he failed to live up to expectations he was replaced, traded or whatever...You can give me how many games hes played in the last 6 years since he was 22, i said this is his first team hes been on that he was the starter without having to look over his shoulder for better or for worse...There is a difference...Also, like ex just stated...We are not saying Salty is an incredible defensive catcher and NEVER have...We are stating that he has greatly improved his game THIS YEAR and deserves to be given more time to see if he plateaus or further improves his game, instead of being replaced once again...We (myself, Ex, Moon and Danny) believe he should get that chance...Get it now?
    Posted by southpaw777


    OH...la pobre Saltalamachia! Que Lastima! He's had only 5 short years of opportunity to prove himself as a mlb catcher. He has to actually compete for a job even. Wow. How he has handled all this emotional distress?

    Gee, I guess I never realized just how bad it has been for poor little Salty. He much he has had to overcome in those 5 years of chances he has been given.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : OH...la pobre Saltalamachia! Que Lastima! He's had only 5 short years of opportunity to prove himself as a mlb catcher. He has to actually compete for a job even. Wow. How he has handled all this emotional distress? Gee, I guess I never realized just how bad it has been for poor little Salty. He much he has had to overcome in those 5 years of chances he has been given.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Judging by his Varitek quote, by his 19 home runs, by his catching the staff both last year and this year, I'd say he's handled the emotional distress quite well, wouldn't you agree, boom. Or are you too obsessed with defensive data to admit maybe he's actually coming into his own as a catcher in his "5th year" on the job.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    You guys are grasping at straws. I mean for real. 

    The bottom line is he is hitting HR this year. Let's hope that continues as that is worth a lot. I see little hope for him to ever be an above average defensive catcher though. As long as he keeps hitting dingers he will have a job, in mlb. He is hitting more and more HR over the wall in Fenway's LF. That is of value and something which he may actually be able to improve on over time. 

    I'd still trade him though as we have a better prospect waiting in the wings IMO. This is not to say he doesn't have substantial value. It's just a judgement call. Possibly I'm wrong and he goes on to be a perenial 40 HR guy. If they think that is likely for God's sake keep him but as of last year, I'm projecting Lavarnway to be the superior mlb catcher over time. And Lavarnway is much cheaper with many more years of control.

    BTW, LAvarnway hits RH pitching quite well also. His splits are much better than both Salty's and Shoppach's.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    I like having a guy on my team who can hit out of the catcher spot. I remember just a few years ago when Varitek got hurt and the only option was Kevin Cash. That was a lot of fun. Good defensive catcher, team's offense was woeful, team didn't win. Maybe had Cash actually got a basehit every once and a while or, god forbid, a HR, the team might have actually won a game or two during his catching stint. He led all the CERA departments too if I recall.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : Judging by his Varitek quote, by his 19 home runs, by his catching the staff both last year and this year, I'd say he's handled the emotional distress quite well, wouldn't you agree, boom. Or are you too obsessed with defensive data to admit maybe he's actually coming into his own as a catcher in his "5th year" on the job.
    Posted by dannycater

    Salty has become a more valuable player. No question about that. He's probably an above average catcher in the league so far this year overall, because of that pop. I'm not saying he's a horrible player, just that he is over rated when we talk about him as a good defensive catcher and one of the top catchers in the league as some were doing here just a month ago. If he keeps hitting HR at a solid pace he will become one of the top catchers in the league. But he has to keep hitting a lot of HR in order for him to achieve that level and most players hit HR in streaks. He is likely to not be able to maintain it consistently. Maybe for a year or 2. A good year and then a down year...etc. Maybe he does maintain it for 4-5 years. That would be great but he lives by the HR and dies by the HR. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : OH...la pobre Saltalamachia! Que Lastima! He's had only 5 short years of opportunity to prove himself as a mlb catcher. He has to actually compete for a job even. Wow. How he has handled all this emotional distress? Gee, I guess I never realized just how bad it has been for poor little Salty. He much he has had to overcome in those 5 years of chances he has been given.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Players who already are good still NEED to be given the proper guidance to reach their potential, especially catchers as there is a lot more to the game for them...Why do you think most players spend 4-5 years in the minors...Once again you are not understanding what Im saying...He wasnt given that all important guidance...He was thrown in there and told "go get em kid" at 22...Before he got to Boston he never played more than 83 games on a MLB team...The Sox took the time to refine his game, unlike his former teams...Ive been respectful to you but you now choose to use childish sarcasm towards me and my view...You have not read my comments and understood them, but have twisted what ive said all around...Ill let you and Ex debate this now and not waste any more of my valuable time "discussing" this with you anymore...have a good evening...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    Lavarnway has a lot of CERA potential IMO. Tek was a Georgia Tech guy and CERA skill was a plus for him. Brains are a significant part of make up. Lavarnway is possibly one of the most intelligent players in baseball, and by all accounts very dedicated to his craft. There is reason to hope that his CERA skill is above average. Physically he will not do himself a lot of favors defensively but his numbers have been decent for the past 2 years and he should continue to improve.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : You have obviously weighed in on the side of Salty over and over. Spare us the BS. I don't care if you were the Pope's personal baseball consultant. Sometimes you get it wrong. Let everyone else here.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    You bet I get it wrong on occasion. Harness straightened me out once, as have Moon and Tom-uk.
    Another of your cockeyed allusions. The Pope is no doubt much more interested in soccer ( football ) than in baseball. But accuracy has never been your strong suit. At least you didn't bring up those slow-witted Special Olympians to define my low IQ. Gotta give you that one.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    Lavarnway has a lot of CERA potential IMO. Tek was a Georgia Tech guy and CERA skill was a plus for him. Brains are a significant part of make up. Lavarnway is possibly one of the most intelligent players in baseball, and by all accounts very dedicated to his craft. There is reason to hope that his CERA skill is above average. Physically he will not do himself a lot of favors defensively but his numbers have been decent for the past 2 years and he should continue to improve.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    So now a guy who is still not on the Sox 25-man playing roster is "one of the most intelligent players in baseball, and by all accounts very dedicated." What are you smoking? Because Bill Maher would love to acquire some of that weed.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Salty's defensive numbers

    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers:
    In Response to Re: Salty's defensive numbers : Players who already are good still NEED to be given the proper guidance to reach their potential, especially catchers as there is a lot more to the game for them...Why do you think most players spend 4-5 years in the minors...Once again you are not understanding what Im saying...He wasnt given that all important guidance...He was thrown in there and told "go get em kid" at 22...Before he got to Boston he never played more than 83 games on a MLB team...The Sox took the time to refine his game, unlike his former teams...Ive been respectful to you but you now choose to use childish sarcasm towards me and my view...You have not read my comments and understood them, but have twisted what ive said all around...Ill let you and Ex debate this now and not waste any more of my valuable time "discussing" this with you anymore...have a good evening...
    Posted by southpaw777

    We've been "discussing" this for days southpaw. He has had plenty of opportunities to prove himself. Far more than most other players in baseball. Lavarnway has had maybe 10 games so far. Do we think he will be given 5-6 years to prove himself? I doubt it.

    I don't mean anyone here disrespect except for expitch. He deserves it. The rest of you have reasonable positions even though we disagree in emphasis. There is still time for anyone here to be proven right or wrong but my point is that it could clearly go either way still. Salty could still end up being a platoon catcher forever. And Lavarnway could be a complete washout for all we know but my bet is on LAvarnway going forward. We will see what happens. It could happen very soon.

     
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