Satchel

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Satchel

    Issue #1 for you, bully-boy:

    You imply that your ancestors were Americans.  If you truly believe that your ancestors didn't do any hideous deeds you need to read up on American History as it pertains to Native Americans, and not the history that was written by the winners, the more factual history.  

    Issue #2:

    Since most of us are "weak-minded characters" I fail to understand why you'd want to hang around with losers like us.  (Sarcasm intended)  Please do us all a favor, take your hyperego and sanctimoniousness and go someplace else.  That will make all of us, you included, a lot happier.  We don't need your "enlightenment".

    As to the thread:
    Thanks for posting it.  The timing of it was perfect as we approached our own day of Independence.  Unfortunately some of the posters here can't get themselves around the fact that it's impossible to talk about the accomplishments of Page without acknowledging the race factor.  Would they suggest as a result that we ignore Page and history?

    Racial discrimination happened and continues to happen to some degree.  That's not a reason to ignore it, it's a reason to talk about it.

    Probably my favorite Satchel quote, when a newspaper reporter told Page that "it was a shame that he didn't get to play against the best players of his time", Page responded, "What makes you think I didn't?"

    This guy was not only a great baseball player, he was wise before his time.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Satchel

    Regardless of the never ending nit-picking and posturing, it was a great read, thank you Harness.  I knew very little about Paige except that he was a great pitcher.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Satchel

    Well, I think most decent people would agree on the evils of slavery and racism. And most baseball fans know that Satchell Paige was a great pitcher, certainly a whole lot better than John Lackey. But, to use the occasion of Independence Day , to pay tribute to Paige and call him the " greatest pitcher of all time," while bringing up the " hideous deeds " of our ancestors?  Sorry, but that just smacks of racial pandering, at it's worst. That sort of thing really does not do anything for anyone , except to maybe make you feel that you are a little more enlightened than others. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FarmFan. Show FarmFan's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Satchel:
    [QUOTE]On our country's day of independence, I thought it might be prudent to look beyond the noise of cherry bombs for a moment. Dice went down with TJ surgery, and there were comments about Japanese. Cam was DFA'd and there were accusations of bigotry if Mac followed shortly after. Much of this was shot down by several board members. But the accusations were echoes of a time when it was very real. Players were segregated - a reflection of the times. The greatest - the saddest - exclusion was  Satchel Paige, perhaps the greatest pitcher ever. "The pitcher with the greatest stuff I ever saw"  Dizzy Dean. DiMaggio said he was the best pitcher he ever faced. Paige's pitching in the Negro leagues and barnstorming with Dizzy Dean and Bob Feller are legendary. Some say he won 1500 - 2000 games. 300 shutouts. 40 no-hitters. The level of competition faced will always be debated. Think WBC. When Robinson finally broke the color barrier, Paige joined the Indians in 1948, at mid-season. In his first three starts, over 200,000 people went to see him. At one point, he was 5-1 with a 1.33 ERA. He ended up 6-1, 2.48 ERA. Keep in mind, he wasn't throwing nearly as hard as he once did. He had allegedly a torn rotary cuff in 1939, and therapy did not include surgery. There was talk of rookie-of-the-year honors. Paige was 42 years old. The Indians went on to win the world series...their last. Here's a look at him in the 1948 WS (42 second mark). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKNV-GxeAio+feature=related He came on in relief of Feller. Spahn pitched for the Braves. In 1951, he was a reliever for the St. Louis Browns. He'd arrive at the park around the 5th inning and sneak drinks into the bullpen. His coach supplied him with a plush rocking chair to relax. Stengal once remarked: "If the Yanks don't get ahead in the first 6 innings, the Browns bring in that damned old man and then we're sunk". Source: http://agilewriter.com/Biography/SatfchelPaige.htm In 1952, Roger Hornsby (an alleged former member of the KKK) became manager of the ST. Louis Browns and kept Paige buried as did Zimmer with Lee (who did his own barnstorming after he said collusion kept him out of the ML's. Bill Lee pitched for years in several different countries - as told in his book HAVE GLOVE, WILL TRAVEL). Owner Bill Veck fired Hornsby, and soon Paige flourished yet again, at age 46. He was named to the AS team. He ended up 12-10 after being on Hornsby's shelf, with a 3.07 ERA used in all capacities. His team lost 90 games that year. Ted Williams called him the greatest pitcher he ever faced. Hack Wilson: " It starts out like a baseball. When it gets to the plate, it looks like a marble". Source: http://www.the baseballpage.com/players/paigesa01 Until Paige hurt his arm, he only threw a fastball. One pitch. Fast and faster, at varied angles, with multiple wind-ups. It wasn't until Paige was 50 years old , and out of M.L. baseball, that he began throwing off-speed stuff. He re-invented himself and Veck bought into a AAA affiliate (Miami Marlins of the International League) and got his reluctant manager to play Paige. The results: 1956: 11-4  1.86 ERA 1957: 10-8 2.42 ERA  11 walks 1958: 10-10 2.95 ERA 15 walks - at age 52! Paige got a % of the gate...and a $15,000 salary. After the 1957 season, Paige went to Mexico to appear in the movie THE WONDERFUL COUNTRY (ironic title, isn't it.) with Robert Mitchum. (Satch played the character Sgt. Tobe Sutton, and made 10 grand. He called the flic "the pride of his life"). Source: http://en.wikippedia.org/wiki/Satchel_Paige In 1961, he pitched briefly for Portland (AAA) and had a 2.88 ERA, 18 SO's thru 25 IP. In 1965, Finley signed Paige at age 59 to pitch in one game - against the  Boston RedSox. Paige was in his rocker in the pen between innings, being served "coffee"by his "nurse". H threw three shutout innings against the likes of Gosger and Conigliaro. Only one player got a hit: Carl Yastrzemski. Paige was inducted into the HOF in 1971. It's sad that M.L.baseball never got to see him in his prime years. Think about this when you enjoy your local fireworks display tonight.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Whats the matter everyone get sick of your dumb CERA posts so you decided to copy and past an article about Page and add a few of your own words in.

    you are pathetic
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Satchel

    Maybe so; this is a tough one; there's shades of grey here (no pun intended), depending on somebody's opinion; right now I'm not buying it.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]Or perhaps it's to mask the hideous deeds of UR ancestrythat only you know the truth about it. I never claim to know your family history beyond what you disclosed. Nor have I ever called it "feeble-minded" or attacked it in any indignant manner Needless to say, " hideous deeds of UR ancestry" is a groundless attack that has zero basis in fact. Your own words show the animus and prevarication in what amounts to a deeply distrubed mind who lives his life with inadequacy based resentment and the standard phony's repetition of stories about people's lives during segregation.  Your comments on Satchel Paige reveal your ignorance of a man you know nothing about beyond your repetition of romanticized embellisments related by those who couldn't give an honest account of history because it doesn't reflect the political agenda that serves as the motive for the accounts themselves. This Board is almost entirely made up of weak minded characterswho don't seem to mind playing along with censhorship and your de facto board bully routine. The "flying off" claim is a bugaboo for your own angry flying off rants. The need to employ the "censor the bad boogieman" routine is quite pathetic.     
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Put on UR specs.  I said "perhaps" it's to mask the hideous deeds...
    No attack. Only you know the truth of it.

    Yes, this board is made up of cattle, with you it's wagon master. Whatever you say, banned-billy-boy.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]Well, I think most decent people would agree on the evils of slavery and racism. And most baseball fans know that Satchell Paige was a great pitcher, certainly a whole lot better than John Lackey. But, to use the occasion of Independence Day , to pay tribute to Paige and call him the " greatest pitcher of all time," while bringing up the " hideous deeds " of our ancestors?  Sorry, but that just smacks of racial pandering, at it's worst. That sort of thing really does not do anything for anyone , except to maybe make you feel that you are a little more enlightened than others. 
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Correction: Highlighted area was only in reference to Softlaw. It was taken from another post on another thread.
    Nowhere did you find this on my OP.
    Once again: Any discussion about Satchel Paige will include his exclusion to millions of baseball fans. The subject matter goes hand-in-hand with his era.

    There's no hiding it or running from it. That point in time serves as a point of reference. As a people, we've come far.Those who don't care to be reminded only wish to see what they want, not what happened.
    Deny it often enough and, like the holocaust, it's very occurrence is questioned and even denied by several factions.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Satchel

    I almost feel like this entire board needs a re-boot.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Satchel

    The thread bearer had the opportunity to create an honorable thread but he went his usual step too far and now has turned into a side-show, a real disgrace. He could have stayed on the high road but he let others take him off the mark, which is all too easy to do. Now rather than just to drop the whole thing he will go to no end to continue jamming his beliefs and opinions down the throat of others.

    nhsteven you may be right that another poster tilted an honorable thread into a bad direction, but that is where the thread bearer should have just stopped it, not fought it. Now the entire thing looks wrong, and its on all of you.

    harness your whole post on "ignorance" was the first post on this thread to take the thread from honorable to a hot debate. While I wish I could change time and have never allowed slavery nor segregation, the simple fact is that it cannot be changed and yet you go on and on attacking people who are mostly dead that frankly the majority of who were raised to be that way. They did not even know they were wrong. 

    By all accounts General Robert E. Lee was an honorable man who probably had better morals than Grant. Yet you would say what about him? Disregarding the fact he fought for his home not for the continuation of slavery. 

    This my only statement to be issued on this particular thread.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Satchel

    Burrito, I have avoided this thread. It has become too absurd and sick to even try to infuse any rational direction, but come on man, you chastise harness and nhsteven for allowing "another poster" to sidetrack an "honorable thread", but choose to keep the real culprit nameless. You shameless defense or selective neglect of the bigoted clown and every position he has ever held is puzzling and more. 

    You need to get a satch (as in sack) and stand up to your "twisted hero" for once in your life. His dementia is dragging your perilously close to the edge of the dark abyss he has fallen into.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]Regardless of the never ending nit-picking and posturing, it was a great read, thank you Harness.  I knew very little about Paige except that he was a great pitcher.  
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    You are very welcome. I thought it was really interesting that Satchel didn't start throwing a curve or any breaking stuff until he was 50! He then pitched brilliantly in the International League, despite Veck using him as a novelty.


    To address complaints about fusing bigotry with maybe the greatest pitcher ever, the subject matter is united. There is simply no getting around it.

    Paige had a career 28-31 M.L. record. Yet, he was inducted into the HOF in 1971. Does that make any sense?

    The rest of the story has to be told: His pitching in the Negro leagues,
    his exclusion from the M.L.'s, his amazing return to prof. baseball at age 50,  those who took advantage of his status, etc.

    If I didn't tell the whole story, that would be truly criminal. And I'll bet anything that if Satch were alive today, he'd want the whole story told, as he told it himself in his Bio. The fact that bigotry was taken to such limits is a part of his history - and ours.

    If the truth about those times and the "blemish" in our country's past offends some here, tough sh*t. How would you like to go through what they did?

    There are obvious posters on this board that will seize the opportunity to slander me on a delicate topic like this. This board knows all to well who they are, and when reading their comments, I only ask that you consider the source. The reality is: If I never brought the subject matter up, somebody else would have, and he/she would have been right to do just that.
     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]I said " perhaps " it's to mask the hideous deeds To describe deeds as "hideous, yet admit to know zero about what you are talking about, "perhaps" doesn't disguise your obvious chip that fuels your anger. As for someone needing to "grow a pair", that would be all the minions who listen to the two pontificating goons, Harnut and Moonslow. j This thread is a patronizing pile of drivel, repeated in standard PC retelling form. The author has no more intelligence than an ape who mimics what he's been told  or read about segregated life. It was loaded with a barb and an arrogance that only comes with someone who's only repeating stories related by characters who have never given an honest historical account in their lives.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    What would you propose to do? Bring him back to life and put a lie detector on him? I read about him extensively and used data/quotes that were stated in other venues. If you question the authenticity of the material, then perhaps you'll be in denial as to the entire period. Maybe none of it happened.

    Perhaps it's all one big lie, like you stating you haven't used various Softlaw identities. Try differentiating truth from fiction in your own life before calling others to task.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Satchel

    moonslav59 I understand your point. I too avoided this thread. And now I really want to avoid it.

    nhsteven I was actually giving a nod too, I can see where softlaw took it another direction, but so did others.

    I will ban myself from this thread.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]harness, old friend. Great tribute. Moving and important. Thanks. Always loved Satchel Paige-isms, though; almost as much as Yogi-isms. "Don't look back. Something may be gaining on you." " Age is a case of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.   "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common."
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    I'd sure like to have that baseball card, Summer!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]moonslav59 I understand your point. I too avoided this thread. And now I really want to avoid it. nhsteven I was actually giving a nod too, I can see where softlaw took it another direction, but so did others. I will ban myself from this thread.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate it. Peace.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Satchel : I'd sure like to have that baseball card, Summer !
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I said something similar earlier as well; LOVE those cards, especially the Minor League tallies; fond memories. Thanks to the fake memorabilia industry, they probably cost too much now.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    I "invested" in baseball cards back in the mid-80's. The steroid balloon popped the $$$ one as well. Many cards lost a lot of value as a result.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]I almost feel like this entire board needs a re- boot.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    I think this might be the most sensible suggestion anyone has made so far this season.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Satchel : I think this might be the most sensible suggestion anyone has made so far this season.
    Posted by antibody[/QUOTE]

    Nice pic! From McGoohan to Bolger. Dare I say it's a reflection of our 3rd base coach?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Satchel : I'd sure like to have that baseball card, Summer !
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Indeed!

    Cool
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]I "invested" in baseball cards back in the mid-80's. The steroid balloon popped the $$$ one as well. Many cards lost a lot of value as a result.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I ventured into cards in the early 1990s - I went long on Phil Plantier. 

    We all know how that turned out. Sigh.

    Undecided
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Satchel

    I went heavy on Will Clark, thinking he was a very plausible HOF'er.
    Have McGuire's rookie card and minor league one.
    Plenty of Bonds rookie cards.
    I hope they get what they deserve...but they won't.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Satchel

    In Response to Re: Satchel:
    [QUOTE]moonslav59 I understand your point. I too avoided this thread. And now I really want to avoid it. nhsteven I was actually giving a nod too, I can see where softlaw took it another direction, but so did others. I will ban myself from this thread.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I will join you in banning myself from this thread and appreciate your comment on softy.
     
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