Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Remember2006. Show Remember2006's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    Schill speaks the truth.  Sometimes, the truth hurts.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad' : All seven starting pitchers had ERAs over 7 in Sept. They performed terribly. Defense and baserunning was shoddy in Sept. Many dependable hitters couldn't hit in the clutch against TB and NYY in Sept. Ellsbury could have caught the inside-the-park HR in Baltimore. Crawford struck out a lot and played poor defense. Reddick's bat disappeared. Salty had a terrible month at bat. Papelbon and Bard blew many saves in Sept Am I up to most of the team? Who am I missing; Scutaro, Ellsbury, Pedroia? Doesn't it look like the collapse was a team effort?. Yes you are spot on. Good call. "Okay , let's pretend that the great collapse never happened. Sox just played poorly in September, that's why they lost. Just one of those things. It was everyone's fault , therefore it was no one's fault. Just part of baseball."
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]
     Ellsbury did a face plant in the center field wall in Baltimore trying to make that grab. He was lucky to not have been seriously injured trying to make that play---Ken Griffey's career, as a center fielder in Seattle, was shortened by trying to make exactly that kind of play. Finally, Ellsbury was one of the few bright spots on a team of quitters and chokers and shouldn't bear any of the blame for the epic collapse of the Sox.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    People here just will not see the truth. The Sox collapse was NOT everyone's fault.  No fair minded fan would scapegoat a player or players for striking out , popping up , making an error , blowing a save , etc.  Those things happen to every player.  What we are talking about here is players disrespecting their teammates, defying their manager and coaches, letting themselves get overweight and out of shape, and being unable to produce their best effort when it was needed the most.  There is simply no excusing that.  Many of us are still ticked off.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    It's only a matter of a short amount of time before somebody writes a book on the 2011 collapse and it won't lack for names or material from the ownership right down to some September callups from Pawtucket.      If a book is out by December, there will be more books under Christmas trees than Sox uniforms shirts.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from cglassanos. Show cglassanos's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad' : hey CGlassanos, point taken, i just wonder if going forward his seemingly everyday commenting will do more harm than good..make no mistake i don't expect nor am i insuniuating that he won't speak his mind...i know full well it's who Schill is..
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    You're absolutely right Jete.  Schill has the tendency to overstay his welcome.  In this case I feel he's hit the right notes but, as you've aptly noted, he's likely to start annoying soon.

    As it stands for now I'm glad M&M are staying focused on two issues:

    A) Who is behind the Francona smear campaign?

    B) Regardless of Pedey, J.Henry, and Lester's public statements there is an air of disingenuousness that is downright insulting to us salty, good New England folk.  Heck, that would be downright insulting to any fan base
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    Opinions gain credibility through track records of success.

    Curt Schilling (btw not my favorite person when not shutting up 50,000 Yankee fans) is often correct when opining about baseball.  That's all there is to it.

    Further, I find him to be one of the more-credible sources of info, historically, when it comes to assessing others.  His call on the ownership is spot on.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    The Red Sox public relations department needs to develop a cohesive response to the disclosures. The responses of well-intended individuals such as Jon Lester and John Henry have not been successful (and may have fueled the fire).
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]Opinions gain credibility through track records of success. Curt Schilling (btw not my favorite person when not shutting up 50,000 Yankee fans) is often correct when opining about baseball.  That's all there is to it. Further, I find him to be one of the more-credible sources of info, historically, when it comes to assessing others.  His call on the ownership is spot on.
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]He's often been wrong too and particularly when he has an oar in the water, which it appears he does with Francona.

    His takes would not be so laughable if he would not insist that the players were out of control, that his good friend Tito was ultimately responsible for insuring that would not happen and that Tito's extension should not have been picked up.

    Then blast on the owner if he wishes, the players that Francona did not rein in all he wants.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad' : All seven starting pitchers had ERAs over 7 in Sept. They performed terribly. Defense and baserunning was shoddy in Sept. Many dependable hitters couldn't hit in the clutch against TB and NYY in Sept. Ellsbury could have caught the inside-the-park HR in Baltimore. Crawford struck out a lot and played poor defense. Reddick's bat disappeared. Salty had a terrible month at bat. Papelbon and Bard blew many saves in Sept Am I up to most of the team? Who am I missing; Scutaro, Ellsbury, Pedroia? Doesn't it look like the collapse was a team effort?. Yes you are spot on. Good call. "Okay , let's pretend that the great collapse never happened. Sox just played poorly in September, that's why they lost. Just one of those things. It was everyone's fault , therefore it was no one's fault. Just part of baseball."
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury had 21 rbi's and 8 dingers in September.  Yes, he could have hung onto that long drive, but, yes, he also ran into the wall, and there was no error.  In fact, he didn't have a single error this year.  Fangraphs rated him the best ballplayer in MLB this year.  You have an awfully broad definition of quitting. 

    I do think there was evidence of quitting, but I think most of it was caused by the total collapse of the pitching.  What's the point of playing hard when you know the starters or relievers are going to give the game away anyway? 

    In case you've forgotten, exactly the same thing happened in August 2006.  The pitching collapsed, the Sox went 9-21 in August, and the team was never the same that year.  But the next year they won the WS. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    No way Ellsbury quit

    Non-quitters

    - Ellsbury
    - Pedey
    -  Scutaro
    -  Paps
    -  Aceves
    - Avilla
    -  Ortiz
    -  Morales

    Everyone else I question
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]Too many people on here just can't stand to hear anything negative. Even a Sox hero like Schilling gets criticized for stating his opinion , if it is not what you want to hear. Okay , let's pretend that the great collapse never happened. Sox just played poorly in September, that's why they lost. Just one of those things. It was everyone's fault , therefore it was no one's fault. Just part of baseball. Sox pitchers were in great shape down the stretch, they just didn't get the job done. Had nothing to do with their drinking or lack of conditioning. Yeah , right.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]


    Excellent post!! And I agree there are still just too many pollyannas and apologist rumpswabs who are going to be willing to give these guys a pass on this--and they shouldn't get a pass, no one should. One of the biggest problems with this franchise---and the main reason IMO why it's in such disarray--is that there has been zero accountability over there, at all levels. And that needs to change if this thing is to get straightened out. I guess to be fair we should probably point out that some fans simply aren't intelligent enough to understand this, but those who are I'm sure fully understand the need for accountability with these bums.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    DennyGalehouse and GreenAppleSplatters are the new Babe and Mikey. Mikey could be Michael Felger.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]i think it's time for Schill to maybe take a step back...imo starting to comment a bit too much...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    Jete:  I usually respect your opinions, but why should he take a step back?  A bunch of folks seem to dislike Schilling because he speaks his mind.  These same folks don't have a problem coming here and doing the same thing.  He's a border line HOF'er, he knows the game, he played a long time on several teams, he had an "interesting" beginning to his career when he did maximize his talents - I mean, the guy is asked his opinion like everyone on this type of site, he gives it, and folks slam him.  I don't get it.  Just because folks don't agree with what he has to say means he doesn't have the right to say it?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    "That kind of boggles my mind that he said that, because at the end of the day, these are grown men. Do you need a manager to tell you? They all knew, and you always know, when you’re doing something questionable or wrong," said Schilling. "They chose not to correct it, and because they chose not to correct it, I think some of them were absolutely not in good enough shape to pitch through September and help them win games.

    Curts comments are true but that does not explain it all. They are human beings and like most human geings will try to get away with as much as they can in any situation.
    Look every one of us knows some one or a group we worked with in the real world who did not always do what was right. People have been doing it since man existed. Hell Adam screwed up.

    How many times has any one of us came back to work not drunk but maybe one beer too many? How many of us who are children of the 60's came back from lunch with a buzz on? Hell there are some reading this either drinking or smoking.
    How many of us just do things that we know are not right but still do them because we have always done it that way?

    So stop taking a holier than thou attitude unless of course you can walk on water.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]People here just will not see the truth. The Sox collapse was NOT everyone's fault.  No fair minded fan would scapegoat a player or players for striking out , popping up , making an error , blowing a save , etc.  Those things happen to every player.  What we are talking about here is players disrespecting their teammates, defying their manager and coaches, letting themselves get overweight and out of shape, and being unable to produce their best effort when it was needed the most.  There is simply no excusing that.  Many of us are still ticked off.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]DennyGalehouse and GreenAppleSplatters are the new Babe and Mikey. Mikey could be Michael Felger.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]
    Just so you know , this will be the last time I respond to any of your garbage. You are persona non grata. I try to state my opinions and have a thoughtful discussion about the Red Sox on this forum , but that is not possible with someone like you. You bring nothing to the discussion , but merely come here to be a nuisance to others.  You do it constantly , and under several different aliases. Your behavior is more like that of a stalker than of a true Sox fan.  It is a waste of anyone's time to reply to your incessant provocations.  Anyway , I could really give a shot what your opinion is.  As I said at the start , I will no longer respond to anything you post , so don't even bother replying to this.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad' : Just so you know , this will be the last time I respond to any of your garbage. You are persona non grata. I try to state my opinions and have a thoughtful discussion about the Red Sox on this forum , but that is not possible with someone like you. You bring nothing to the discussion , but merely come here to be a nuisance to others.  You do it constantly , and under several different aliases. You behavior is more like that of a stalker than of a true Sox fan.  It is a waste of anyone's time to reply to your incessant provocations.  Anyway , I could really give a shot what your opinion is.  As I said at the start , I will no longer respond to anything you post , so don't even bother replying to this.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    You fool nobody. You are not a Red Sox fan. Hopefully many put you onto ignore.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    As smart as Schilling is about the clubhouse, and I think he definitely is right about the sad nature of Lester's comments regarding Tito, there is something to consider at home Fenway games in particular. Nomar brought it up. There's not that much room in the Sox dugout to sit. In other words, unless the SPs sat in the bullpen, they would be standing room only in that dugout. It's no great defense of Beckett, Lackey and Lester, The Texas TwoSteppers, but I can see why it would be hard to just sit in the dugout for 4 hour Sox games when you are not pitching. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]People here just will not see the truth. The Sox collapse was NOT everyone's fault.  No fair minded fan would scapegoat a player or players for striking out , popping up , making an error , blowing a save , etc.  Those things happen to every player.  What we are talking about here is players disrespecting their teammates, defying their manager and coaches, letting themselves get overweight and out of shape, and being unable to produce their best effort when it was needed the most.  There is simply no excusing that.  Many of us are still ticked off.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Well said...I have no idea why people continue to try to minimize the deriliction of duty of these ingrates and assign everyone blame...I was no fan of Tito as manager but I really feel bad for him because it seems you had these core of pitchers who enjoyed taunting him and others with their assinine behavior - I can accept Pedroia trying not to rock the boat for 2012 but his job is to play 2nd base and support his teammates, which a large majority of Red Sox players DID last season...I refuse to lump those players with the chicken-beer brigade...Josh Beckett was probably my favorite player in the last five seasons but he is dead to me now unless he man's up and apologizes to the fans, the owner, and mostly, his manager who he threw under the bus because he could, or was a sadistic piece of chit who enjoyed watching him squirm/get sick.
     
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    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]i think it's time for Schill to maybe take a step back...imo starting to comment a bit too much...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]
      Except he's exactly right.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    What it says to me even more clearly, they have no leadership whatsoever in that clubhouse."

    True. And that makes it clear that Varitek is useless.

    The GM assembled most of these prima donnas. He was denied an extension with only one year left on his contract and he is thankfully skipping town for a very stupid Cubs organization.

    Ownership is quite competent. They have effectively fired the responsible party.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    In Response to Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]i think it's time for Schill to maybe take a step back...imo starting to comment a bit too much...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. He's getting like Clinton during the end of the Bush administration.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    It's quite clear it's all Tek's fault.
    I have no doubt it was the rally beers from pitchers not pitching.
    It was the video games and the spicy chicken wings that caused this epic collapse.

    Gene Mauch would have said similar. He went through the same ordeal, except it was players doing the TWIST and the POTATO in stead of the video games.

    It had nothing to do with BS like Josh coming back to soon from a sprained ankle,
    or Bedard from a lat strain, or Lester's erratic mechanics after he was eventually exposed as a two-pitch pitcher with command issues.

    I think there was a conspiracy from Yankee fans in 3rd world countries to add something very fishy to the team's potato salad!!!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

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    In Response to Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad':
    [QUOTE]WEEI: Former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling, in an interview with the Mut & Merloni Show, discussed the recent comments by starter Jon Lester about the clubhouse issues that included starters eating fried chicken and drinking beer during games. Schilling was particularly stunned by the left-hander's suggestion that the Sox "needed more structure" than manager Terry Francona provided, and the idea that the manager's authority -- after eight years -- had "run its course." "That kind of boggles my mind that he said that, because at the end of the day, these are grown men. Do you need a manager to tell you? They all knew, and you always know, when you’re doing something questionable or wrong," said Schilling. "They chose not to correct it, and because they chose not to correct it, I think some of them were absolutely not in good enough shape to pitch through September and help them win games. "That’s sad," added Schilling. "That’s embarrassing, and that’s sad. That basically says, at the age of 28, 29, 30, I need an adult more mature than me to give me rules and guidelines. ... That’s sad, because that’s why we won World Series. We won those World Series because he was that way, because he allowed us to police ourselves. What it says to me even more clearly, they have no leadership whatsoever in that clubhouse." Schilling suggested that, when he was a player, Francona confronted him about the amount of time he spent in the clubhouse during games. "I spent a lot of time in the clubhouse. I did so for a couple different reasons. The most important was that if I didn’t get time in the clubhouse to look at video to get ready to pitch, I would have had to have been at the park at 10 or 11 a.m.," said Schilling. "If you don’t have the makeup to translate to players, ‘Hey, he’s in the clubhouse getting his work done. He’s doing therapy. He’s doing his arm exercises.’ "Clearly that’s the message that Terry got. These guys weren’t in the clubhouse getting work done. They were in the clubhouse because they didn’t want to be on the bench. And that’s a very different setup. ... Terry came to me a couple different times and was unhappy that I was in the clubhouse, and he made it clear, and he wanted me to change my program. My guess is that, based on conversations after this, he did that exact thing." Schilling suggested that the task of repairing the clubhouse is going to be challenging, particularly given the departure of Francona and the likely imminent exit of GM Theo Epstein. Schilling said that the idea of signing a veteran bench player to offer leadership represented a virtually impossible job description. "If they go out this winter and sign that leadership guy, how hard is his job going to be? ‘You’re only going to get 150 at-bats. No one cares about what you do on the field. Get these guys in order.’ That’s going to be the Q&A: ‘How’s the clubhouse doing? How’s the atmosphere and the culture here?’" Schilling noted. "That’s going to s.uck."
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Curt goes over the top at times like many of us when trying to prove a point.  He also makes a lot of valid points, the more people who come forward with names will help as much as the actual discipline itself.

    Nobody wants their name dragged through the mud. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Schilling on M&M: Lester comments 'sad'

    Injuries as an annual excuse. Every team has them, but a 160M payroll should be flogged for using it as an excuse.

    Schilling is correct, Varitek is useless.
     

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