Seattle making a push for Stanton

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    . Bet he could BREAK those Coke bottles. The guy bruises some pitches.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    Stanton must hit free agency at a relatively young age. I'd wait, one player is not worth selling the farm for... especially if it means giving up pitching prospects. I also think Barnes and Bogaerts should be untouchables. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Bisson1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Stanton must hit free agency at a relatively young age. I'd wait, one player is not worth selling the farm for... especially if it means giving up pitching prospects. I also think Barnes and Bogaerts should be untouchables. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I have to respectively disagree, Stanton at 23 has has done more than any of our youngsters in the bigs so until they arrive there is no telling what we really have.  Giving up a few "unproven" youngsters for Stanton or F. Hernandez if he was ever available is worth the risk.

    Bradley?  we still Victorino and the possibility of re-signing Ells if he does well.

    Bogy? nobody knows where he will play but if its 3B, do we trade Middy or make him a 1B?  I would be surprised to see Bogy land at SS but even so it may be worth the risk.

    Barnes? I would keep over De La Rosa if we needed to let one go

    Iggy or Ciriaco who I like? In a package for one of the above I wouldn't even hesitate

    Salty? I wouldn't even hesitate to trade him in favor of Lav and Ross

    Brentz or Kalish? still just prospects

    Bard? Does he even have a place here anymore?  I might package him

     

    We have a lot of options and they should all be considered.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    I just don't see Seattle pulling this off - but if they do - great move.

    the Sox aren't going to empty their minor leagues for this guy.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     think those 5 would do teh trick,

    There is no way "those 5 do teh trick".

    Stanton is an established everyday young MLB star who will be cheap for years. They aren't trading him for 5 "maybe long MLB career but current prospects" who aren't much cheaper than Stanton himself. Odds are that none will be as good as Stanton, and odds are that no more than two end up with average MLB careers. How can anyone be that stupid!

    [/QUOTE]

    No way, huh?  What was the biggest package of prospects ever traded at once?  Use that as your baseline.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     think those 5 would do teh trick,

    There is no way "those 5 do teh trick".

    Stanton is an established everyday young MLB star who will be cheap for years. They aren't trading him for 5 "maybe long MLB career but current prospects" who aren't much cheaper than Stanton himself. Odds are that none will be as good as Stanton, and odds are that no more than two end up with average MLB careers. How can anyone be that stupid!

    [/QUOTE]

    No way, huh?  What was the biggest package of prospects ever traded at once?  Use that as your baseline.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't think 7 for 1 might be enough?

    1) 1 from: Doubront, Morales, or Aceves (with cash for Aceves)

    2) Lava or Swihart

    3) Bradley

    4-5) Barnes (or Webster/de la Rosa) & Iggy   or    Bogaerts & Owens

    6) Brentz or de la Cruz

    7) Cecchini or Britton

     

    We'd still have Bogaerts or Barnes and Webster & de la Rosa and Iggy or Owens.

    They'd get 6 of out 10 top prospects, and our farm is rated rather high right now plus a decent young SP under team control for several years.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     think those 5 would do teh trick,

    There is no way "those 5 do teh trick".

    Stanton is an established everyday young MLB star who will be cheap for years. They aren't trading him for 5 "maybe long MLB career but current prospects" who aren't much cheaper than Stanton himself. Odds are that none will be as good as Stanton, and odds are that no more than two end up with average MLB careers. How can anyone be that stupid!

    [/QUOTE]

    No way, huh?  What was the biggest package of prospects ever traded at once?  Use that as your baseline.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't think 7 for 1 might be enough?

    1) 1 from: Doubront, Morales, or Aceves (with cash for Aceves)

    2) Lava or Swihart

    3) Bradley

    4-5) Barnes (or Webster/de la Rosa) & Iggy   or    Bogaerts & Owens

    6) Brentz or de la Cruz

    7) Cecchini or Britton

     

    We'd still have Bogaerts or Barnes and Webster & de la Rosa and Iggy or Owens.

    They'd get 6 of out 10 top prospects, and our farm is rated rather high right now plus a decent young SP under team control for several years.

    [/QUOTE]

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.  In four years, when he hits FA, they would be just about nothing left.  I guess it is easier to determine value with pure $$$, since it easier to compare to other players, but some in here (not necessarily you) think it's okay to give up the farm, as if they can easily be replaced.

    Seriously, what would the lineup look like in four years, after Stanton is gone?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     think those 5 would do teh trick,

    There is no way "those 5 do teh trick".

    Stanton is an established everyday young MLB star who will be cheap for years. They aren't trading him for 5 "maybe long MLB career but current prospects" who aren't much cheaper than Stanton himself. Odds are that none will be as good as Stanton, and odds are that no more than two end up with average MLB careers. How can anyone be that stupid!

    [/QUOTE]

    No way, huh?  What was the biggest package of prospects ever traded at once?  Use that as your baseline.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't think 7 for 1 might be enough?

    1) 1 from: Doubront, Morales, or Aceves (with cash for Aceves)

    2) Lava or Swihart

    3) Bradley

    4-5) Barnes (or Webster/de la Rosa) & Iggy   or    Bogaerts & Owens

    6) Brentz or de la Cruz

    7) Cecchini or Britton

     

    We'd still have Bogaerts or Barnes and Webster & de la Rosa and Iggy or Owens.

    They'd get 6 of out 10 top prospects, and our farm is rated rather high right now plus a decent young SP under team control for several years.

    [/QUOTE]

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.  In four years, when he hits FA, they would be just about nothing left.  I guess it is easier to determine value with pure $$$, since it easier to compare to other players, but some in here (not necessarily you) think it's okay to give up the farm, as if they can easily be replaced.

    Seriously, what would the lineup look like in four years, after Stanton is gone?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I'm not sure I'd give 7 for one, but was listing what I think they'd take.

    I guess we could extend Stanton as part of the deal, but that's not going to be easy. He may also break records for arb costs.

    I guess you have to ask yourself how many of the 7 will be good to great players before their control ends. Maybe 2-3? Is that worth one superstar at relatively low cost for 4 years?

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    Offer him 7/84 as part of the trade. It would guarantee him good money through the arb years.

    We would also probably have to take Nolasco, so maybe 7 to 1 is not necessary, or a slightly lesser quality 7 to 1.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthomas43's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    So what are the Sox waiting for?  I'd give em Bogaerts for Stanton.  The guy has a Fenway swing and is a proven young commodity.  Lets not let another one get away.

     [/QUOTE]

     

     

    I'd give em Bogaerts for Stanton

     

     

     

     

     

     




    [/QUOTE]

    Hehe    Zac, when you're right you're rght!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthomas43's comment:

     

    So what are the Sox waiting for?  I'd give em Bogaerts for Stanton.  The guy has a Fenway swing and is a proven young commodity.  Lets not let another one get away. 

     

    At least half the MLB teams have contacted the Marlins regarding Giancarlo Stanton.

    Would you trade Xander Bogaerts, Matt Barnes, Jackie Bradley, Garin ChecchinI and Henry Owens for Giancarlo Stanton?

    Even that might not be enough to land Stanton.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd do it. Stanton could be a franchise cornerstone ala Manny.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.

    I agree...as good as Stanton is, he's just one guy, and I don't like trade proposals that would pretty much lay waste to the farm system just to get one player. Xander Bogaerts, for example, will probably never be as good as what Stanton already is, but is the expected difference between Bogaerts and Stanton worth throwing in 4 or 5 more top prospects in addition to Bogaerts?

    This isn't a Manny Ramirez who would only cost money. I'd rather keep the prospects and build a more balanced team. (BTW, somebody said we can trade Bradley because we'd still have Victorino? Really?)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.

    I agree...as good as Stanton is, he's just one guy, and I don't like trade proposals that would pretty much lay waste to the farm system just to get one player. Xander Bogaerts, for example, will probably never be as good as what Stanton already is, but is the expected difference between Bogaerts and Stanton worth throwing in 4 or 5 more top prospects in addition to Bogaerts?

    This isn't a Manny Ramirez who would only cost money. I'd rather keep the prospects and build a more balanced team. (BTW, somebody said we can trade Bradley because we'd still have Victorino? Really?)

    [/QUOTE]

    1) We lost a 2001 1st round draft pick by signing Manny.

    2) His contract prevented us from signing several other players.

    3) He was worth it.

     

    There are maybe 3-4 players who have the strong potential to be the "next Manny". One is named Stanton.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthomas43's comment:

    So what are the Sox waiting for?  I'd give em Bogaerts for Stanton.  The guy has a Fenway swing and is a proven young commodity.  Lets not let another one get away. 

     

    At least half the MLB teams have contacted the Marlins regarding Giancarlo Stanton.

    Would you trade Xander Bogaerts, Matt Barnes, Jackie Bradley, Garin ChecchinI and Henry Owens for Giancarlo Stanton?

    Even that might not be enough to land Stanton.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ha Ha Ha thats funny !!!... I would't give our farm away....Marlins are stupid... Let them keep Stanton and rot in the bottom of the league every year. Who cares about one guy that the asking price would just be soooooo stupid. GM'S should just back off and let them rot... They are going nowhere fast That team stinks and let them keep Stanton and watch from the bottom . Hey we got this superstar young player ,give us all you got for him??? Do not fall for that give us what we want..............Stanton is young enough to play out his contract and if ??? He is still the almighty superstar then he gets away from the garbage he was playing for..... Not worth it !!!

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    If you trade for Stanton-trade Ells for prospects. Get a couple back that way. Selectively sign some players that are being released from good teams that are signing MinLeague DFA's to fill in the holes left after the trade. 

    Move some of the borderline prospects, our #8 to #14, up to Portland and on to the PawSox. There are also many players looking for AAA jobs that have some good experience in case the RS MLB roster has injuries.

    We don't have to give up all prospects: Mauro Gomez may be a player Miami might be interested in. Buch or Lester where we would pay some salary. if Nolasco is included.

    It may be very difficult for a team to take on 7 new contracts--some of the new players may not be as good as what they have in their system. There's a lot to consider. If we don't get Stanton perhaps they go after a smaller fish like Kubel for RF. I'm not sold on Upton--it may cost too much and he's not as good as Stanton.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    It may be very difficult for a team to take on 7 new contracts--some of the new players may not be as good as what they have in their system.

    Most are at minimum wage, and some do not even have to be on their 40 man roster.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.

    I agree...as good as Stanton is, he's just one guy, and I don't like trade proposals that would pretty much lay waste to the farm system just to get one player. Xander Bogaerts, for example, will probably never be as good as what Stanton already is, but is the expected difference between Bogaerts and Stanton worth throwing in 4 or 5 more top prospects in addition to Bogaerts?

    This isn't a Manny Ramirez who would only cost money. I'd rather keep the prospects and build a more balanced team. (BTW, somebody said we can trade Bradley because we'd still have Victorino? Really?)

    [/QUOTE]

    1) We lost a 2001 1st round draft pick by signing Manny.

    2) His contract prevented us from signing several other players.

    3) He was worth it.

     

    There are maybe 3-4 players who have the strong potential to be the "next Manny". One is named Stanton.

    [/QUOTE]

    perhaps that is part of my issue with Stanton.  I'm not sure Stanton is the next Manny.

    Stanton has struck out approximately 1:3 ABs.  That's a huge number.  Last year, he had a 3:1 K/W, and that's kind of his 3rd season.  There are not a lot of huge players with that ratio.  In the same time frame, MCab had already reduced his K/W to under 2:1 in his 3rd season.  Manny was at about 1.5/1 by that time.

    From 2009-2011 there were only 5 batters in the top-30 wOBA that had a K/W> 2:1-Cargo, hamilton, Napoli, Upton, Howard, and Cruz.  Of these, only Cargo and Hamilton managed to stay in the top-30 in 2012.  I'd fear that, if he didn't improve his K/W, he wouldn't stay in the top tier.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    i dont think we would have to mortgage the farm to get stanton, we have lots of prospet and will be drafting evening more pretty soon including the number 7 draft choice plus a high 2nd rounder. if i am ben i try to get a deal done without boegarts, but in the end if he is what gets a deal done, then so be it, why? because he is likely to outgrow the ss position, so where would he play? middlebrooks is at 3rd, would they move him to first? will he be able to hit at the major league level? as it stands right now, boegarts has reached doubled A in which he played for a month i believe, yes he has been great to date, but minor league dominance doesnt always translate to the majors. remember lars anderson? he was our top prospect and first baseman of the future. now? he is a nobody. stanton on the other hand at the major league level posted .290 avg 37 homers 86 rbi in 123 games. that projects to a 40+ homer season 100+ rbi for a guy who is 23 years old on a mediocre offensive team. imagine what he could do in a better line up and playing half his games in fenway park. were talkin 45-50 homers, 115-120 rbi 40 doubles potential. will boegarts be putting up those kind of numbers by the time he is 23? i doubt it. stanton is the guy to give up the blue chippers for. he's the guy the sox can build around for the forseeable future. check out the new line up:

    ellsbury

    pedroia

    stanton

    middlebrooks

    ortiz

    napoli

    victorino

    salty/lavarnway

    drew

     

    looks alot better than one with johhny gomes/kalish in left. we have the prospects, time to use them. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    I'd take Stanton especially if we could move some of our players like Elles.... but the Marlins simply are not looking to compete or even look like an MLB team this year. Prospects are the only way.

    Carl Pavano and Armas Jr. were solid prospects but Pedro was worth 5 times that. 

    Probably the only prospect worth protecting are our centerfield future options. The others are all expendable for a player of Stantons MLB proven caliber.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Seattle making a push for Stanton

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We'd be robbed.  No player is worth that much.

    I agree...as good as Stanton is, he's just one guy, and I don't like trade proposals that would pretty much lay waste to the farm system just to get one player. Xander Bogaerts, for example, will probably never be as good as what Stanton already is, but is the expected difference between Bogaerts and Stanton worth throwing in 4 or 5 more top prospects in addition to Bogaerts?

    This isn't a Manny Ramirez who would only cost money. I'd rather keep the prospects and build a more balanced team. (BTW, somebody said we can trade Bradley because we'd still have Victorino? Really?)

    [/QUOTE]

    1) We lost a 2001 1st round draft pick by signing Manny.

    2) His contract prevented us from signing several other players.

    3) He was worth it.

     

    There are maybe 3-4 players who have the strong potential to be the "next Manny". One is named Stanton.

    [/QUOTE]

    perhaps that is part of my issue with Stanton.  I'm not sure Stanton is the next Manny.

    Stanton has struck out approximately 1:3 ABs.  That's a huge number.  Last year, he had a 3:1 K/W, and that's kind of his 3rd season.  There are not a lot of huge players with that ratio.  In the same time frame, MCab had already reduced his K/W to under 2:1 in his 3rd season.  Manny was at about 1.5/1 by that time.

    From 2009-2011 there were only 5 batters in the top-30 wOBA that had a K/W> 2:1-Cargo, hamilton, Napoli, Upton, Howard, and Cruz.  Of these, only Cargo and Hamilton managed to stay in the top-30 in 2012.  I'd fear that, if he didn't improve his K/W, he wouldn't stay in the top tier.

    [/QUOTE]

    Comparing to Manny at age 22 is not apples to apples. Manny had about 350 ABs to Stanton's near 1500.

    Stanton had an HR every 12.1 ABs last year (lead MLB). By the time he is 22 his career mark is 14.2 in about 1500 ABs.

    Manny reached 14.2 for a season only at age 26 (12.7), and he beat Stanton's 12.1 mark at age 27 (11.9). He had an 11.6 the next year and then never beat Stanton's 12.1 again.

    Age 22: Stanton .969 OPS/ Manny .878.

    Manny at age 23: .960, then .981 & .953.

     

     
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