September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    If the Sox are looking to bring back a pitcher with a near 5.00 ERA, seems to me that they have the wrong idea of going forward next year.  I would look more toward a ST invitee doing well and maybe bringing something to the table besides the need for a catcher to be able to catch him.  Might get lucky ala the Yanks with a Colon or Garcia which is a whole lot better than Wake.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Colon/Garcia were not 6th starters.
    ERA's are reflective on skill level, venue, level of comp. faced and "D".
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]If the Sox are looking to bring back a pitcher with a near 5.00 ERA, seems to me that they have the wrong idea of going forward next year.  I would look more toward a ST invitee doing well and maybe bringing something to the table besides the need for a catcher to be able to catch him.  Might get lucky ala the Yanks with a Colon or Garcia which is a whole lot better than Wake.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    That sounds logical though i think this thread isn't about being logical, nice try.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher? : How much upside did Douby or Miller or Bowden or Weiland show? How many more young arms do you wish to see compromise the team's chances?
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Miller still has more upside, I would rather lose with him pitching a full season than Wake.   Wake will retire, Miller could blossom into a solid starter.   

    But aside from that, a young arm could come from anywhere.   We are talking about next year, not this past year.  Nobody said the Sox had to use a current AAA guy from their own team to replace Wake, I said a younger arm would have more upside.  

    Wake does not eat innings anymore, do you really want to see him in there pitching next year?


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Wow if Wakefield was the best starter on the staff in September, that is a MAJOR indictment on the rest of the guys...Lester and Beckett should be ashamed of themselves, while Lackey should be more than ashamed, he should reimburse ownership with his 2011 salary.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]Tim "Wastefield" - the one most of the posters on this board don't want back. September ERA's: Wake: 5.25 Bedard 5.25 (2.000 WHIP) Lester: 5.40 Beckett: 5.48 Weiland: 7.36 Lackey:  9.13
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Wakefield "in case nobody noticed" also looked like he was four months pregnant on the mound this season.  Tim and Josh could have challenged each other for the biggest belly.  If our players all took their conditioning and winning seriously there is no telling what we could accomplish as a team.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    saying Wake was our best starter in September is like saying Moe was the smartest of the three stooges....

    Anyone advocating bringing 45 year old fat loser face Wastefield back after 2011 debacle, over entire FA and world minor league market, you are divorced from reality.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Tell Wake "thank you for your service, we love you, now goodbye."  It is time to move on from both Tek and Wake.  They are not helping and they are holding back younger players.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]Tim "Wastefield" - the one most of the posters on this board don't want back. September ERA's: Wake: 5.25 Bedard 5.25 (2.000 WHIP) Lester: 5.40 Beckett: 5.48 Weiland: 7.36 Lackey:  9.13
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    What I love most about this is all the people that say the offense was the problem.  this is pathetic.

    With that said. Wakefield shouldn't be back.  He had a bad year.  There isn't any reason to think he is going to get any better.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Wow if Wakefield was the best starter on the staff in September, that is a MAJOR indictment on the rest of the guys..

    Actually, it's an indictment on all the posters who chose Wake to be the one to bash out of all the others. (I won't even bring up the money disparities.)


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Let me add this...If Wakefield was as bad, as fat, as hard to catch, as pathetic, as horrible as you many think he was....what does that say about Lackey? A guy being paid 17 million a year and has 3 years left on his contract v a guy who has bled red, white and dark blue since 1995 and made 2 million this year....You guys r f-ing idiots.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    If the Sox are looking to bring back a pitcher with a near 5.00 ERA, seems to me that they have the wrong idea of going forward next year.  I would look more toward a ST invitee doing well and maybe bringing something to the table besides the need for a catcher to be able to catch him.  Might get lucky ala the Yanks with a Colon or Garcia which is a whole lot better than Wake

    You guys don't want to "take a chance" on a guy like Wake, but funny you bring up Colon and Garcia...

    Colon didn't even pitch in 2010, He had just 56, 99, 39, and 62 IP the 4 years before 2010, and had a combined 5.18 ERA. He's 38 this year.

    Garcia's record from 2007-2010?  17-16  and a 4.81 ERA (IP: 58, 15, 56, 157). He just turned 35.

    They cost about as much as Wake and paid off like a lottery ticket. If you guys really think finding the next Colon and Garcia is easy, please list some names. I'll copy and save them for next October's laughs.

    FYI: numbers from 2007-2011:
                 ERA/WHIP  (tERA)
    Wake   4.76  / 1.33  (4.66)
    Colon   4.66 /  1.42  (4.58)
    Garcia  4.41 /  1.37  (5.07)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher? : Miller still has more upside, I would rather lose with him pitching a full season than Wake.   Wake will retire, Miller could blossom into a solid starter.    But aside from that, a young arm could come from anywhere.   We are talking about next year, not this past year.  Nobody said the Sox had to use a current AAA guy from their own team to replace Wake, I said a younger arm would have more upside.   Wake does not eat innings anymore, do you really want to see him in there pitching next year?
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]


    Then who was that guy on the mound who was 4th on the staff in IP? 150+ frames.
    Gee, it sure looked like Wake.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher? : Wakefield "in case nobody noticed" also looked like he was four months pregnant on the mound this season.  Tim and Josh could have challenged each other for the biggest belly.  If our players all took their conditioning and winning seriously there is no telling what we could accomplish as a team.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    David Wells, if you hadn't noticed, had a nice career.
    Poor physique never hindered Lolich in '68.
    And neither were knuckle-ballers.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    CC is twice Wake's weight, who cares about that
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]Wow if Wakefield was the best starter on the staff in September, that is a MAJOR indictment on the rest of the guys.. Actually, it's an indictment on all the posters who chose Wake to be the one to bash out of all the others. (I won't even bring up the money disparities.)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I think the bashing really has to do with Wake simply because the Sox actually have to make a choice to bring him back...he is not contract bound like the other starters in September.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Not really. There were lots of posters who were saying dump Wake in April, May, June...

    ...after 2007, after 2008, 2009...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    I'd love to know how much of what folks say is based on Wake bias - beyond his numbers. Those who discriminate only show the numbers supporting their positions. How can anyone not acknowledge the 150+ IP - and just who would have pitched them, had it not been for Wake?
    We are talking a notch below Weiland in such a case - as even Weiland couldn't be replaced in critical games.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    moon, how bout after 1996, 1999, 2003....hell, other than 95 and 04, did any of these yahoos ever cared for him as a SOX pitcher. Most I know outside this board were "afraid of Timmy"....they didn't trust him, and they still don't.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Timmy T-Ball cost over 3M for his 2011 garbage.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Timmy T-Ball will not have any bidders, unless InEpstein returns as Gm.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    In Response to Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?:
    [QUOTE]moon, how bout after 1996, 1999, 2003....hell, other than 95 and 04, did any of these yahoos ever cared for him as a SOX pitcher. Most I know outside this board were "afraid of Timmy"....they didn't trust him, and they still don't.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I really think many of the Wake bashers have always thought of him a circus act and not a real pitcher. It looks like he's serving up batting practice and they don't like it.

    There have been so many stereotypes flung around about Wake so often, people believe them as facts now.

    The silly clown is responsible for most of them, and often times I had to hit him over the head with the facts 4-6 times before he'd move on to a new equally bogus claim about Wake. He started after 2007 and the playoffs. He railed on Wake's WHIP and BB/9. It took months and months before he gave up on those stats, especially after Wake finished 5th in the AL and first among Sox starters in WHIP for the 2008 season. Softy used to use WHIP over ERA as much as I did, until it didn't fit into his pre-conceived notion of Wake as a bum.  He clung to the BB/9 argument up to this summer, when he finally realized I was right: Wake has the best BB/( rate of any Sox starter from 2010-2011 combined). He then went to W-L record, but ran into trouble after the team went 11-5 in Wake's first 16 starts. Then, the age and belly rants, and ERA, and Wally is better drivel. He wanted Douby to pitch while on the DL, Miller to pitch in April (see Miller's April AAA numbers), and Weiland to get a true long look (blaming Weiland's poor numbers on a brawl). 

    The fact is Wake's numbers after age 40 are better than the average 4/5 starter in MLB, but for some reason that's not good enough for a 6th starter. the clown said no MLB team would carry a 5+ ERA guy, but I showed him there are over 33 such pitchers in MLB right now, and that the vast majority of AL playoff teams since 2003 have had 1-3 top starters with ERAs over 5.00. In one ear-out the other. He still clings to that nonsensical belief.

    I've debunked the debunker so many times, he's become even sillier than one could ever imagine.  Others are closing in on his twisted view and drinking the Kool-Aid. I'll wait till next July, when the Sox have to trade an arm and a leg for a guy who can go 12-11 in 23 starts.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Timmy T-Ball debunked you, stooge. You have never debunked anything regarding Timmy T-Ball. Timmy T-Ball is an unemployed phone call away if the Red Sox, next July, need a T-Ball 45 year old laughing stock to finish off a loser season.

    Paul Byrd and Timmy T-Ball should join forces in a washed up old mans' emergency mop up duty innings service.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?




    W.O.M.E.M.U.D.I Service? Too long a name.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: September swoon: Guess who was our BEST starting pitcher?

    Harness and moonslav are barking up the wrong tree. 

    The simple fact is that Wakefield gave up 21 runs in 24 innings pitched in September for an RA (runs average) of 7.88, and they want to blamed most or all of those runs on poor defense and an ineffective bullpen.  For most of the rest of us, runs are runs, especially when the pitcher's knuckler was the proximate cause of all 21 runs.  This year, the knuckler was either very hittable or completely uncatchable.  Rare was the game or even the inning when he would set batters down in order while Saltalamacchia was smoothly catching every pitch. 

    In September Wakefield gave up 7 unearned runs, which is more unearned runs that any other Boston pitcher had for the entire season.  In his case the ERA is far and away his most misleading statistic.  
     

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