September Swoon?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    September Swoon?

    I hope the start of this month isn't a sign of what's to follow the next three weeks.
    We were so out of sync in April, had a terrific May, June, and July but just a good, not a great,  August.
    Maybe it's just me but this team look out of sync again? I firmly believe in a regular line-up with fill-ins as required, but Terry seems determined to continue to rest star players and play the lefty/righty game. IMO, this disrupts the ebb and flow of a well-oiled machine.
    We can't limp into the playoffs with a .500 September and expect to succeed.
    Something has got to give.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from xmen. Show xmen's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    I agree with you.What a joke this lineup tonight is.Don't Francona know where in a pennant rase.Tampa Bay is not out of it yet.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    Francona was altering the lineup throughout those productive months. 

    Well-oiled machine is a horrible analogy for baseball team.  Every player has ups and downs.  When Youk went on the DL, Pedroia got some cleanup time which proved to be a mixed blessing.  Right now the Sox do have their "big five" (Ellsbury, Pedroia, AGon, Youk, and Ortiz) but two of them, Pedroia and Youkilis, have been backsliding and, to a degree, so has AGon.  So he gets a day off against a pitcher who owns him.  Ditto Crawford. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    every contender goes through some Sept knocks... heck, the Yanks just lost their 2nd straight extra inning 5-4 game today... 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]Francona was altering the lineup throughout those productive months.  Well-oiled machine is a horrible analogy for baseball team.  Every player has ups and downs.  When Youk went on the DL, Pedroia got some cleanup time which proved to be a mixed blessing.  Right now the Sox do have their "big five" (Ellsbury, Pedroia, AGon, Youk, and Ortiz) but two of them, Pedroia and Youkilis, have been backsliding and, to a degree, so has AGon.  So he gets a day off against a pitcher who owns him.  Ditto Crawford. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps. I did find it interesting that each of the division leaders are above .500 for September while both Boston and Atlanta share a 2-5 record.

    I've never liked Francona's managerial style. He's a stats guy, and never seems to want to break stride, and use his gut (if he has one). Managing a game on paper is great for fantasy baseball, not for the field of play.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: September Swoon? : Perhaps. I did find it interesting that each of the division leaders are above .500 for September while both Boston and Atlanta share a 2-5 record. I've never liked Francona's managerial style. He's a stats guy, and never seems to want to break stride, and use his gut (if he has one). Managing a game on paper is great for fantasy baseball, not for the field of play.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree with your assessment of how Francona manages.  yes, he is a strict numbers guy as far as Bill James type thinking goes.  Yes, he is a stickler for the r-l-r thing, to a fault.  But, I he he manages with his gut a lot interms of letting guys work themselves out of trouble,  out of slumps etc.  He gets a lot of heat for leaving pitchers in too long.  But , i think, often he is letting that pitcher get experience in high leverage/pressure situations, win or lose, take responsibility.  In the AL East, and on a team that is expected to compete in Autumn, you have to do that.  He lets guys fail or succeed.  he undertsands the human response/athletic competitive element there that numbers can't give you.  Same with letting guys work out of slumps.  pedey in 07.  Shoot, Crawford all year this year.  Ortiz in early 09 and 10.  He doesn't look at numbers in those cases.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    Sox have a lot of pitchers down, that might account for some of it; had the game in hand last night but Bard of all people lost it (even there he was one strike from getting out of trouble, just wasn't to be).
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    Bard has six losses this year.  Some of them heartbreaking like last night's.  He is a great talent but in the pinch I have no confidence in him.  This team needs to pray for this month to start moving in a positive direction.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flagoblin27. Show Flagoblin27's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    the pitching is horrendous!  not the lineup, they re the trying to keep up with the pitching,, giving up 11, 7, 11 runs to Texas and on other nights losing 1-0, winning 11-0 to Toronto, shows how inconsistent pitching is.. if they pitch like this in the playoffs,, pitching wins overall... so we ll see who s in trouble come October. smh!!! 

    not gonna win with Lackey, Miller and Wakefield pitching...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: September Swoon? : Perhaps. I did find it interesting that each of the division leaders are above .500 for September while both Boston and Atlanta share a 2-5 record. I've never liked Francona's managerial style. He's a stats guy, and never seems to want to break stride, and use his gut (if he has one). Managing a game on paper is great for fantasy baseball, not for the field of play.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Most franchises rely on statistics, videos, scouting, tons of research, and a plan that they stick with. If you don't subscribe to that routine or philosophy then you should really contemplate following another team that has a manager who wings it like the old Red Sox managers of years like Pinky Higgins, Don Zimmer, and Jimy did. My guess however is that you weren't happy with them neither since you are smarter from your armchair with a jug of brandy at your side.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    No worries, management is going to be cautious for the last 6 weeks of the season. Pedroia should rest for a week.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]No worries, management is going to be cautious for the last 6 weeks of the season. Pedroia should rest for a week.
    Posted by S0ftl@w[/QUOTE]

    He should have rested for the entire Jays series. The laser show looked more like a government mandated dim fluorescent light.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: September Swoon? : I don't agree with your assessment of how Francona manages.  yes, he is a strict numbers guy as far as Bill James type thinking goes.  Yes, he is a stickler for the r-l-r thing, to a fault.  But, I he he manages with his gut a lot interms of letting guys work themselves out of trouble,  out of slumps etc.  He gets a lot of heat for leaving pitchers in too long.  But , i think, often he is letting that pitcher get experience in high leverage/pressure situations, win or lose, take responsibility.  In the AL East, and on a team that is expected to compete in Autumn, you have to do that.  He lets guys fail or succeed.  he undertsands the human response/athletic competitive element there that numbers can't give you.  Same with letting guys work out of slumps.  pedey in 07.  Shoot, Crawford all year this year.  Ortiz in early 09 and 10.  He doesn't look at numbers in those cases.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Spaceman, that is pretty darn thoughtful, maybe the best I've read on Francona. 

    You and I and Francona agree that at the end of the day the players have to win the games.  Yes, the manager can orchestrate things to bring out their best, but they have to do the job. 

    My favorite recent example of that is the 11-10 loss Wednesday night.  He brought in his ace, Bard--Pap is the absolute best closer on the team, but before the 9th inning Bard is the ace--to get the last out of the 7th.  One pitch, one out.  Brings him back out for the 8th with a 2 run lead, Bard's bread and better, as he showed in Monday's game (which we lost 1-0, but I think Bard got like 5 outs in 15 pitches). 

    But Bard walks a guy, hits a guy on a 1-2 count, and gives up a single to load the bases with no one out.  Then suddenly the real Bard emerges and he gets two K's, just as if he had entered the game with the bases already loaded.  Vintage stuff.  With two outs, he gets two quick strikes, and the Sox look home free for the 8th.  But then some nibbling pitches which are balls plus some fouled off pitches lead to something like an 8 pitch walk, to bring the guy on third home and the score to 8-7, with Bautista coming to the plate. 

    That's where large numbers of us claim Francona should have taken Bard out
    and brought in Papelbon.  I thought leaving Bard in was the right decision, despite the outcome (which was disastrous).  Yes, Bard left that Toronto guy off the hook (8 pitch walk) and walked the guy earlier and hit a guy, but he also had two K's and almost a 3d.  Plus Bautista was 0 for 5 against him with 3 K's.  Plus I think Bard is better with the bases loaded than Papelbon (but don't know this).  Plus, as Peter Abraham noted, Francona has rarely asked Papelbon to pitch in the 8th inning this year.  Abraham implied that was/is not smart, but in fact Papelbon is having a great year after a so-so 2010. 








     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    Good Morning all...Happy Friday!...i guess i should say after both our games yesterday..not so much..Sealed...interesting and important weekend on tap, Yanks off to the Left Coast and their Anaheim house of horrors, Sox heading to  the Catwalk Capital of Florida with a chance to impact both the divison and WC races...not a good time to stumble but it happened...Yanks and Sox now get a chance to exhale and start over...and Sunday is 9/11..alot will be going on in downtown Manhattan, as we remember those we lost...glad the Yanks will be on the road...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]Good Morning all...Happy Friday!...i guess i should say after both our games yesterday..not so much.. ...interesting and important weekend on tap, Yanks off to the Left Coast and their Anaheim house of horrors, Sox heading to  the Catwalk Capital of Florida with a chance to impact both the divison and WC races...not a good time to stumble but it happened...Yanks and Sox now get a chance to exhale and start over...and Sunday is 9/11..alot will be going on in downtown Manhattan, as we remember those we lost...glad the Yanks will be on the road...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    big series for both of us this weekend Jete.  I wish your boys the worst of luck.  Kiss
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    No way!

    They are the

    Best.

    Team.

    EVAH!

    http://www.nesn.com/2011/01/2011-red-sox-will-challenge-1927-yankees-for-title-of-greatest-team-in-major-league-history.html
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]Tampa is only 6 behind in the loss column, sweep here, and we have a race for the WC.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    coversely, sweep here and we put those pesky rays to sleep.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]I hope the start of this month isn't a sign of what's to follow the next three weeks. We were so out of sync in April, had a terrific May, June, and July but just a good, not a great,  August. Maybe it's just me but this team look out of sync again? I firmly believe in a regular line-up with fill-ins as required, but Terry seems determined to continue to rest star players and play the lefty/righty game. IMO, this disrupts the ebb and flow of a well-oiled machine. We can't limp into the playoffs with a .500 September and expect to succeed. Something has got to give.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]
    The pitching staff is decimated, that's the real problem.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    "Tampa is only 6 behind in the loss column, sweep here, and we have a race for the WC"

    Still Tampa need to win that one extra game.  A lost in that extra game would put them to 7 games behind!!!!

    Tampa must sweep Boston this weekend to get into the WC chase.  A lost by Tampa to Boston this weekend, it is over!!!

    Because Boston would be 5 and half games ahead of Tampa going with 16 games left of the season!!   After this weekend series, Tampa is going to play 12 straight road games with three games against Baltimore, four against Boston and four against Yankees.  I can not foresee Tampa going 9-3 or 10-2 in these 12 road games.   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    You and I and Francona agree that at the end of the day the players have to win the games.  Yes, the manager can orchestrate things to bring out their best, but they have to do the job. 

    a manager has to put his team in the best position to win. I thought Francona did a poor job before and right after the all star break managing his key players time off. Too many players running on fumes due to improper time off imo.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    In Response to Re: September Swoon?:
    [QUOTE]You and I and Francona agree that at the end of the day the players have to win the games.  Yes, the manager can orchestrate things to bring out their best, but they have to do the job.  a manager has to put his team in the best position to win. I thought Francona did a poor job before and right after the all star break managing his key players time off. Too many players running on fumes due to improper time off imo.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Whats funny about this is that there is a large and quite vocal quotient of posters who are currently railing at the fact that he shouldn't baby his players, they don't need days off, get paid too much to be babied, etc.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: September Swoon?

    Hey quit bashing Tito.

    If you look at most non-playoff teams such as Toronto, soon to be Tampa, Baltimore, etc, they also have used alot of different players especially they have used alot of September call up players.  Plus they got nothing to lose for any games for the rest of the season while Boston is trying to clinch the playoff spot at the same time they are trying to stay healthy as they can for the post season.

    Come on guys, you know that!!
     
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