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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 5:34 PM EDT

    I've thought for the last month that Tito was managing for his job.  It's not necessarily Tito's fault that the Sox are where they are, but as in any business, when things fail someone's head rolls and the manager is the most likely candidate.

    Tito knows it and will accept it gracefully.  The question is, who are they going to get who's going to do any better?  Tito's record in Boston speaks for itself and may be his saving grace. 
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 5:35 PM EDT

    OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 5:43 PM EDT

    too bad the globe doesnt feel the same way about Shaughnessay

    I agree S5. be careful what you wish for; you know what you have, not what you'll get. Francona will not have any problem finding a managerial job if his time in Boston comes to an end. He will be on a very short list. Maybe it's time after eight years, for both the organization and Francona. I thank and wish him well. ya done good Tito
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 5:45 PM EDT

    I'm not going to guess whether or not Tito will be back because you never know. One thing I will say is that when things go bad, the manager is made the scapegoat, and that really hasn't been how this Henry-regime has been run.

    Yes, Grady was fired after the ALCS in 2003, but it had more to do with him not being on the same page as the organization and the feeling was that had he was on the same page, using the data given to him for example, he wouldn't have left Pedro in.

    This September had a lot of problems, and as manager Tito has some responsibility. But the greater part was that nearly the entire pitching staff failed him. That's more on Theo, who acquired the players, and the players themselves.

    You could describe it as an organizational collapse, so that's why I'd be surprised if they made Tito the scapegoat.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 5:50 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year':

    Grady was fired after the ALCS in 2003, but it had more to do with him not being on the same page as the organization and the feeling was that had he was on the same page, using the data given to him for example, he wouldn't have left Pedro in. Posted by royf19


    I still remember that like it was yesterday.  I'm not normally a vindictive person, but the thing I wanted most to see - and still would have liked to have seen - was for John Henry to step over the short wall in front of him and onto the field, walk into the dugout, face Grady, and say two words, "You're fired", on national TV. 
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:01 PM EDT

    Not sure that he want's to be back...

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:24 PM EDT

    IMO Gammons isn't half as much in the know as he once was and has whiffed on lot's of his takes on the thinking in the RS inner circle this year, from their take on Ellsbury's swing in April, to Lackey getting TJ surgery by July to probably this one.

    Gammons likely at any rate has probably roasted Theo's humor no end with his chatty rumor last week, as regardless of a growing disconnect or not, it was the last thing Epstein or Francona wanted to be answering question about in the middle of the stretch run collapse.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3992292. Show user_3992292's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:26 PM EDT

    Agree that it is not his fault to see his team have too many injuries.  Really it is Theo's fault for hiring the wrong coaching staffs and medical trainer!!  Maybe that is one of the reason why I think Tito may not be happy the staffs he have now after he lost his assistant coaches to another team as a manager or a higher manager.


     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Glare. Show Glare's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:27 PM EDT

    I think this absolute, total bullshi*.

    John Henry didn't panic when they were 2-10 and he is going to panic if they don't make the playoffs.

    Getting rid of Tito would be insane...
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wadeandrson. Show wadeandrson's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:46 PM EDT

    If they get rid of tito, it better be for someone who has a similar track record of success in a furnace like Boston. And who would that be exacty?  
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:51 PM EDT

    Someone has to pay for this historic mess, even if the RS make the playoffs. 

    Francona is the logical to take the fall. Besides, I think he should go just based on the whole Wakefield to 200 win thing.    
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:51 PM EDT

    Citing Shaughnessy as a source is weak man. He hasn't done any real reporting in years because no one will talk to him. He thrives on the negative just like some posters in this forum. Notice that in the quote Danny boy left himself an out because he knows full well that he's not in the loop. In vague language he admits if this team makes the playoffs and goes on a run that Tito may well return. 

    However in your own regurgitation of Shaugnessy you missed that part. He did NOT say Tito won't be back. 

    Anyone who follows this team can tell that Tito, not Theo, will be the scapegoat if the team doesn't make the playoffs (or gets in and gets swept, etc). We don't need Shaughnessy's weak cynical sauce for that.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 6:52 PM EDT

    I would like to hear from the Tito Haters who they specifically think would do a better job, is available right now and why they think that person is better.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 7:10 PM EDT

    Tito deserves a lot of gratitude. Theo deserves our scorn.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 7:59 PM EDT

    You'd kind of have to go back to see the biggest weaknesses were this season.  Aside from injuries to Dice and Buchholz, we got really bad seasons from Lackey, Crawford, and Jenks.  I wouldn't make any changes, but certainly Theo deserves the brunt of the blame here.

    It was hard to envision that we'd need to trade for another SP at the trading deadline, but he certainly should've saw a need in early September.

    And while he couldn't foresee Bard going south, we could've used another BP arm for certain.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 8:13 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year':
    I think this absolute, total bullshi*. John Henry didn't panic when they were 2-10 and he is going to panic if they don't make the playoffs. Getting rid of Tito would be insane...
    Posted by Glare


    1 post??  since you're a pup, we'll cut you some slack!   Tito, who I love, is absolutely on the block!!!!   TOO MANY blown games this year!!!!  That HE is directly responsible for!
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 8:22 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year':
    You'd kind of have to go back to see the biggest weaknesses were this season.  Aside from injuries to Dice and Buchholz, we got really bad seasons from Lackey, Crawford, and Jenks.  I wouldn't make any changes, but certainly Theo deserves the brunt of the blame here. It was hard to envision that we'd need to trade for another SP at the trading deadline, but he certainly should've saw a need in early September. And while he couldn't foresee Bard going south, we could've used another BP arm for certain.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Theo really needed to acquire another pitcher when Dice-K was injured, not in September.  I like Wakefield, but he pitched too many games this year and became ineffective.  You can't expect to have a good team that is trying to compete and make it far into the playoffs without enough good pitching. 
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 9:29 PM EDT

    if grady can be fired for a mistake one game short of the world series, then Francona can easily be fired for an entire month's epic collapse with a team that is so loaded with talent it's almost unfair

    i know it is time for you francona apoligists to admit what i and others have been saying for a few years now - he is a lousy manager who can not motivate, lead, or teach his players what is needed to win...if they have it in them (like 2004/07) then its all good...if not were f&^*ed...

    seriously if this season doesnt justify firing him than i assume you want him to manage for life....sort of like your plan for wakefield starting...


     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 9:53 PM EDT

    Grady got lambasted for something that imo was contoversial. Pedro needed to start the 8th but Williamson should have been hot and ready to go by the time the tying run reached the batters box.
     

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    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 10:19 PM EDT

    The person who needs to go is Curt Young.  There really is no excuse for the pitching to be as bad as it was this season considering how, at the beginning of the season, EVERY sports pundit was labeling this staff as possibly the best in the AL. The onus is on Curt Young.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 10:37 PM EDT

     he is a lousy manager who can not motivate, lead, or teach his players what is needed to win...if they have it in them (like 2004/07) then its all good

    That just makes no sense at all.  The 'players' had it in 2004, and the 'players' had it in 2007, but the same players didn't have it in the other years and that's Tito's fault?

    I thought we were past the discussions that revolved around 'when the team wins, it's because the players won it, and when they lose, it's because Tito lost it'?

    You can either give Tito credit for two WS rings, and the other losses, or you can credit the players for the two WS rings and the losses, but you can't credit the players when they win and blame the manager when they lose.
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 10:53 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year':
     he is a lousy manager who can not motivate, lead, or teach his players what is needed to win...if they have it in them (like 2004/07) then its all good That just makes no sense at all.  The 'players' had it in 2004, and the 'players' had it in 2007, but the same players didn't have it in the other years and that's Tito's fault? I thought we were past the discussions that revolved around 'when the team wins, it's because the players won it, and when they lose, it's because Tito lost it'? You can either give Tito credit for two WS rings, and the other losses, or you can credit the players for the two WS rings and the losses, but you can't credit the players when they win and blame the manager when they lose.
    Posted by Joebreidey
    Right to the point.

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 10:54 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year':
    Citing Shaughnessy as a source is weak man. He hasn't done any real reporting in years because no one will talk to him. He thrives on the negative just like some posters in this forum. Notice that in the quote Danny boy left himself an out because he knows full well that he's not in the loop. In vague language he admits if this team makes the playoffs and goes on a run that Tito may well return.  However in your own regurgitation of Shaugnessy you missed that part. He did NOT say Tito won't be back.  Anyone who follows this team can tell that Tito, not Theo, will be the scapegoat if the team doesn't make the playoffs (or gets in and gets swept, etc). We don't need Shaughnessy's weak cynical sauce for that.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker


    Excellent point.
    Curly-haired boy also said "Lowell would not be re-signed"...about a month before the team inked him to 3 years...
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy: 'Tito won't be back next year'

    posted at 9/28/2011 10:57 PM EDT

    The CHB also said the Rays were done tonight, even when the bases loaded with no out in the 8th.  I hate the CHB!!!