Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.


    "It couldn't be more different"

    For many years there have been posters, myself included, not happy with Francona's managing style.  On more then one occasion, in the past, I used the line that's not how Bill Belichick would run a team.

    Yes we won 2 championships and the masses were satisfied.  Thing is we probably should of won 4 and that's what's angers the not easily pleased crowd.

    It all starts in April though many have pooh poohed me basically saying April games don't count because it's a long season or he's not managing to win tonight's game because he has to save the Pen for tomorrow's game.

    W T F is That??????  You play and Manage to win every game NOW!!!!  They all count the same.

    I am so happy after reading Shaughnessy's article this morning.  It's going too be a great day.  Just call me Woody.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    I agree I like the reports of Valentine's spring training habits and I expect a very ready team come April, however implying we would've won the world series with a different manager 4 times over the past 8 years or so is ridiculous, I will give you this though, we probably would've made the playoffs last season.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    DS article is thought provoking.. Of course he does not mention Fitch won a championship and had a 700+ winning %. Pete Carroll madfe the playooffs 2 out of 3 years. Which was better than Parcells 2 in 5 yrs.

    This article is written to provoke people plain and simple something he loves to do.

    IMHO Terry managed what he had. You can not make a team what they are not. The RS were not a small baseball team. It has been about hitting and lots of it.

    There is no reason to expect that the RS SHOULD have won 4 never mind 2. The first was a win of GREAT proportions and very lucky. Then did anyone expect the Cards to win this year or SF the year before NO. It is all about luck and getting hot at the right time in all playoffs. So to say SHOULD is just plain belief with no basis in fact.

    Let's see in June how great the ST actually worked out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    REFRESHINGLY INTERESTING !!!  GO BOBBY V & SOX TOO !!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Francona's yearly poor starts really frustrated me.

    I never did agree with it, and I'm glad someone is trying something different. For all those "innings saved" by Francona, how many of those guys actually made it through the season, and saw those decisions pay dividends in September? I can't think of any really. Pitchers STILL got hurt, the bullpen STILL needed more arms by season's end. So for all that treating April games like exhibitions, there was no benefit.

    Baffling.

    Oh and 1/162nd is worth the same in April as it is in September too, obviously.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

      PLAYERS NEED TO BE TREATED LIKE HIGH SCHOLL PLAYERS, THEN GRADUALLY EASE OFF AFTER EVERYONE KNOWS THEIR PLACE AND PERFORM AS A UNIT OF UNITY !!!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    A half billion dollar labor costs produced 1 playoff win in 3 years. Tito lost control of the team years before they effectively fired he and InEpstein.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Francona's yearly poor starts really frustrated me.

    Actually, Tito's winning % in April was about the same as his overall winning %.  You know, if you were interested in the facts.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    W T F is That??????  You play and Manage to win every game NOW!!!!  They all count the same.

    So, if Bailey saved the game on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, will you bring him in on Sunday?

    Since I know that your response will be 'no', then you are obviously not playing to win NOW.

    And with that, you might as well delete the thread.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Bobby Valentine will try harder to win some of the games than he will others.  He will give up on some games, like every major league manager does.  It's a 162 game season with 25 players, 12 pitchers.  If you play every game like a must-win, you're an idiot, your team will burn out early, and you'll be fired. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Yes we won 2 championships and the masses were satisfied.  Thing is we probably should of won 4 and that's what's angers the not easily pleased crowd.

    I will assume that you don't think we could've won in 2006 and 2010 with half our team disabled.

    So you think we should've won a WSC 67% of the other years?

    In the playoffs, you face off against 7 other teams, all with similar records.  The odds against the best team in BB in any given year is 1-6.  How often do you think the best team even wins?

    Since 1998, the best record outright has only won once, though the the RS were tied for best record in 2007, so maybe make it 1.5 times in the past 13 years.

    I will offer you this bet for the rest of my life.  You can take any team in BB for even money to win the WS.  I do not care if the NYY spend $300M, they still won't be even money to win, yet you think Theo put enough talent on the field to win half the time?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]W T F is That??????  You play and Manage to win every game NOW!!!!  They all count the same. So, if Bailey saved the game on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, will you bring him in on Sunday? Since I know that your response will be 'no', then you are obviously not playing to win NOW. And with that, you might as well delete the thread.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    This is pure spin on your part Joe and a bit mean spirited, something I'd expect from a Western Omelet type. 

    Come on man, you know I'm referring to the occasions when Terry would leave a Starter or Reliever in way too long only to give up an extra 3,4 or 5 runs.  Those walk the bases loaded situations followed by the base clearing double.

    You manage those 10 situations correctly a year and squeezes an extra 5 wins out of them and hey were in the playoffs.

    "You Play to win the game"  If you don't agree or still have an ax to grind with me from a few years ago, fine.  I'm over it - have a great day (and I mean it).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]Bobby Valentine will try harder to win some of the games than he will others.  He will give up on some games, like every major league manager does.  It's a 162 game season with 25 players, 12 pitchers.  If you play every game like a must-win, you're an idiot, your team will burn out early, and you'll be fired. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Or you can manage like Francona Hfx, miss the playoffs with the 2nd highest payroll for 3 years in a row and get fired.  Baseball is not as strenuous a sport when compaired to the other major sports.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    How about having the forum spend this whole coming week bashing those that are now gone. Yesterday it was Drew, today it is Tito. Let's schedule Theo for tomorrow. Then it will be Farrell, Varitek, and Wake. Let's get it all out of our system once and for all. Debate points will be awarded to the poster with the most " I told you so" statements and those points will be added onto your fantasy baseball score.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood. : Or you can manage like Francona Hfx, miss the playoffs with the 2nd highest payroll for 3 years in a row and get fired.  Baseball is not as strenuous s sport when compaired to the other major sports.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    Yeah but he's the same guy who won 2 World Series and went to 3 ALCS and was the most successful manager in baseball for that 5-year stretch, during which we did not always have even the 2nd highest payroll.

    I liked Francona and I always will.  I will say, though, that 2011 was a bad season for him and that we did need a change.  I'm very interested in seeing how Valentine's style works.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood. : Or you can manage like Francona Hfx, miss the playoffs with the 2nd highest payroll for 3 years in a row and get fired.  Baseball is not as strenuous a sport when compared to the other major sports. 

    The whole idiot thing is a bit harsh.  Some people set their goals high and expect to win, they call those people champions/winners.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]How about having the forum spend this whole coming week bashing those that are now gone. Yesterday it was Drew, today it is Tito. Let's schedule Theo for tomorrow. Then it will be Farrell, Varitek, and Wake. Let's get it all out of our system once and for all. Debate points will be awarded to the poster with the most " I told you so" statements and those points will be added onto your fantasy baseball score.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    I wasn't trying to bash Francona lowelll.  I'm just stoked after reading the article that Bobby V is getting the team ready in a different, what I feel will be a more productive, way.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood. : I wasn't trying to bash Francona lowelll.  I'm just stoked after reading the article that Bobby V is getting the team ready in a different, what I feel will be a more productive, way.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    You had better re-read your OP then.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood. : You had better re-read your OP then.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Not really a bash just a strong disagreement with his style.  Now if I was calling him Francoma or one of the other derogatory names I've read in the past then yes I would be bashing.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Many track coaches tell the team member who runs the mile to pace himself, don't go off so fast that you have nothing to finish with. When such miler lost the race by five yards, he said to his coach; "Why did you give me that advice, I could have won the race if I had started faster?" 20-20 hindsight is always correct and perfect. Could this be what so many of you are referring to when you keep saying that Terry thought that April games were not important?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood. : Not really a bash just a strong disagreement with his style.  Now if I was calling him Francoma or one of the other derogatory names I've read in the past then yes I would be bashing.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    I think doofuses pretty much covers it. I wish I had come up with that one along with those that I used while I BASHED Francona.
     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brown615. Show Brown615's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    ... some wood"  That's correct; between Shaughnegativity's ears. Although, he is correct about 1 thing; Tito and BV are different.  Any time you change the Manager, there are differences.  I did not always agree with the way Tito did things, but that's not unusal, we all do things and think differently. Generally, he did a good job (I'm not giving back the Championships), however, Tito lost it last year, so it was time for a change.  Time will tell us if BV's methods will give us the winning style and the wins we want.

    All of these entries are interesting considering Shaughnegativity's article had nothing of value in it - as usual!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Shaughnessy's article invokes some wood.

    Come on man, you know I'm referring to the occasions when Terry would leave a Starter or Reliever in way too long only to give up an extra 3,4 or 5 runs.  Those walk the bases loaded situations followed by the base clearing double.

    I've posted how many times Tito leaves SPs in for 6 ERs or more and it is very similar to most other playoff managers.  Did you know that HOF-bound manager Leyland left his SPs in for 6 ERs or more 22 times last year?

    You manage those 10 situations correctly a year and squeezes an extra 5 wins out of them and hey were in the playoffs.

    If you pull your SP every time he runs into trouble, you throw him off schedule, and burn out the BP.

    Ask yourself why Leyland left his SPs in for 6 ERs or more 22 times.  When you figure out why he would do this, we can discuss it further.

    "You Play to win the game"  If you don't agree or still have an ax to grind with me from a few years ago, fine.  I'm over it - have a great day (and I mean it).

    I'm not aware that axes are in place from a few years ago.  I'm usually not aware of who I am responding too, unless it is Geo or Softy, who basically post the same thing every time.  I try to keep it that way so that I respond to the post, and not the poster.

    Care to tell me what happened a few years ago?
     
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